2023-24 Season

There was some interesting action in the 11s at Surf Cup. The 2011 Slammers FC ECNL Team beat Koge in the final 2 to 1. It was a great game. This was a long damn weekend with 2 games on a Monday . This team recruited some very talented RL players from their own club and other clubs. The ganas from the newly recruited girls sparked something here. We see it at The Las Vegas Cup alot. Macias RL teams and others just killing it against so called better ecnl teams.

I'm not knocking any of the letter leagues or teams. I'm just saying it's refreshing to see a club and team recruit like the system is intended to get amazing results. Congratulations to The Surf Cup Champion 2011 Slammers FC ECNL Team and kudos for developing and creating a system that players can move through for great future performance!

The 2011 Blues didn't go to Surf Cup, but both national playoff finalists (Surf and Koge) did. They had a little or better put BIG rematch of the National Crown Playoff Title just a few weeks after Nationals in which Koge won and advanced to the championship game. Unbelievable, that we could save small fortunes and just make Surf Cup the National Playoffs right here in So Cal! We have such great competition here!
 
way up said:
There was some interesting action in the 11s at Surf Cup. The 2011 Slammers FC ECNL Team beat Koge in the final 2 to 1. It was a great game. This was a long damn weekend with 2 games on a Monday . This team recruited some very talented RL players from their own club and other clubs. The ganas from the newly recruited girls sparked something here. We see it at The Las Vegas Cup alot. Macias RL teams and others just killing it against so called better ecnl teams.

I'm not knocking any of the letter leagues or teams. I'm just saying it's refreshing to see a club and team recruit like the system is intended to get amazing results. Congratulations to The Surf Cup Champion 2011 Slammers FC ECNL Team and kudos for developing and creating a system that players can move through for great future performance!

The 2011 Blues didn't go to Surf Cup, but both national playoff finalists (Surf and Koge) did. They had a little or better put BIG rematch of the National Crown Playoff Title just a few weeks after Nationals in which Koge won and advanced to the championship game. Unbelievable, that we could save small fortunes and just make Surf Cup the National Playoffs right here in So Cal! We have such great competition here!
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Wait a minute! Blues played Surf in the finals!!! Correction. Koge lost to Surf in the semis and Surf beat the Blues in the finals. There are so many great teams here that it is hard to keep all the facts straight! Sorry for the error. Really like the idea of Surf Cup being The National Playoffs though. To think so many teams still come from out of state after the playoffs to play at Surf Cup speaks volumes about why it's better here in So Cal too imo.
 
way up said:
There was some interesting action in the 11s at Surf Cup. The 2011 Slammers FC ECNL Team beat Koge in the final 2 to 1. It was a great game. This was a long damn weekend with 2 games on a Monday . This team recruited some very talented RL players from their own club and other clubs. The ganas from the newly recruited girls sparked something here. We see it at The Las Vegas Cup alot. Macias RL teams and others just killing it against so called better ecnl teams.

I'm not knocking any of the letter leagues or teams. I'm just saying it's refreshing to see a club and team recruit like the system is intended to get amazing results. Congratulations to The Surf Cup Champion 2011 Slammers FC ECNL Team and kudos for developing and creating a system that players can move through for great future performance!

The 2011 Blues didn't go to Surf Cup, but both national playoff finalists (Surf and Koge) did. They had a little or better put BIG rematch of the National Crown Playoff Title just a few weeks after Nationals in which Koge won and advanced to the championship game. Unbelievable, that we could save small fortunes and just make Surf Cup the National Playoffs right here in So Cal! We have such great competition here!
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I had to pull my dd (with her permission) to avoid these travel leagues when she was 14. I would say the main reason I had to pull her was because the old GDA League would not allow poor public-school kids to play in their Elite league, if they played public HS Soccer. This new league was manly catered to the wealthy parents and their Private School children. It's not healthy flying 7th and 8th graders all over the country beating teams 13-0 and scoring double hat tricks in Florida. It does not make that hat trick pony better player, trust me. During my dd recruiting year of 2021, we did no East Coast travel and did Surf Cup, Surf Showcase, Phx Showcase and one ID Camp at Stanford. It's all you need for your child to attract the coaches. My dd brought ganas and the phone rang. She had some great opportunities (full rides) but they were all conditioned with taking Covid jabs.
 
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way up said:
I'm not knocking any of the letter leagues or teams. I'm just saying it's refreshing to see a club and team recruit like the system is intended to get amazing results. Congratulations to The Surf Cup Champion 2011 Slammers FC ECNL Team and kudos for developing and creating a system that players can move through for great future performance!
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We’re on the boys’ side of Slammers and we just had a parents meeting with one of the directors where they emphasized that RL to NL pipeline as a strategy moving forward.
 
Karlton Athletic said:
We’re on the boys’ side of Slammers and we just had a parents meeting with one of the directors where they emphasized that RL to NL pipeline as a strategy moving forward.
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How can that be categorized a new strategy - seems that has pretty much always been the hook of RL; "do well and you'll have NL opportunities". Perhaps it became clearer that it often wasn't the case, with promotions from RL too far and few between to keep that implied messaging accurate; maybe now they feel there needs to be more of a focus.
 
Karlton Athletic said:
We’re on the boys’ side of Slammers and we just had a parents meeting with one of the directors where they emphasized that RL to NL pipeline as a strategy moving forward.
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I have to give these big clubs credit with their marketing. The creation of RL enabled these clubs to fill their "B" teams (or for very big clubs their C and D teams), grab the inflated $4k+ per player, and roster another 18. From what I understand NL and RL costs are nearly identical at these clubs. "A strategy moving forward"? Love it. To sell the dream at a $4k+ cost, they better be moving up a few RL players every year. Those players can replace the end of the NL bench which typically churns anyway. Simple rinse and repeat every year. And now we have RL So Cal this year. Anyone caught one of those games yet? My god. If these clubs are getting anywhere close to $4k for that then I'm definitely in the wrong biz.
 
jimmys said:
I have to give these big clubs credit with their marketing. The creation of RL enabled these clubs to fill their "B" teams (or for very big clubs their C and D teams), grab the inflated $4k+ per player, and roster another 18.
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$4k? We’re not paying the club anything close to that, and the step up to RL was about $100 more a quarter. Of course, this is on the boys’ side where everything seems a lot more chill, LOL.
 
jimmys said:
I have to give these big clubs credit with their marketing. The creation of RL enabled these clubs to fill their "B" teams (or for very big clubs their C and D teams), grab the inflated $4k+ per player, and roster another 18. From what I understand NL and RL costs are nearly identical at these clubs. "A strategy moving forward"? Love it. To sell the dream at a $4k+ cost, they better be moving up a few RL players every year. Those players can replace the end of the NL bench which typically churns anyway. Simple rinse and repeat every year. And now we have RL So Cal this year. Anyone caught one of those games yet? My god. If these clubs are getting anywhere close to $4k for that then I'm definitely in the wrong biz.
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Actually 4k a year is not that bad. Figure 3 hours of training and 2 hours of game time and warm up every week for 50 weeks is 250 hours of coach's time on weekends none the less as well. Then consider equipment, fields, etc. $4,000 divided by 250 hours is $16 per hour. Day care is more expensive, so club costs are a great deal imo. Traveling for playoffs to Seattle or Virginia though will add another $5k to $10k. These are the costs that I think get egregious and that is more for the leagues. I doubt coaches, directors, and/or clubs are getting rich. They are most likely doing what they love.
 
jimmys said:
If these clubs are getting anywhere close to $4k for that then I'm definitely in the wrong biz.
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Not to start another pricing thread - it doesn't have to happen - but some of the top clubs in norcal are already well over 5K/year for just club dues (no uniforms, travel, extra tournament fees, whatever), and this is for teams that are nowhere near even RL quality, down to 3-4 rungs lower. Yes, that's the rack rate, and I'm sure there are deals to be had - but it is not nearly an anomaly; club soccer has continued to be less affordable.
 
RandomSoccerFan said:
Not to start another pricing thread - it doesn't have to happen - but some of the top clubs in norcal are already well over 5K/year for just club dues (no uniforms, travel, extra tournament fees, whatever), and this is for teams that are nowhere near even RL quality, down to 3-4 rungs lower. Yes, that's the rack rate, and I'm sure there are deals to be had - but it is not nearly an anomaly; club soccer has continued to be less affordable.
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Private Equity has effectively entered the space, it's only going to get worse from here.
 
Karlton Athletic said:
We’re on the boys’ side of Slammers and we just had a parents meeting with one of the directors where they emphasized that RL to NL pipeline as a strategy moving forward.
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I'm glad they're doing what they said they were intending to do...

So many times I feel like coaches and DOCs say "play well on the 2nd team and you can get on the 1st team!" but it's a lie... they recruit from outside the club to fill both teams...

So if RL to NL player flow is happening, kudos to them!
 
Socal-Soccer-Dad said:
I'm glad they're doing what they said they were intending to do...

So many times I feel like coaches and DOCs say "play well on the 2nd team and you can get on the 1st team!" but it's a lie... they recruit from outside the club to fill both teams...

So if RL to NL player flow is happening, kudos to them
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I have a lot of opinions that are not facts yet about different style and skills learned. For instance, the girls that are ecnl level, but play in RL may get a lot of looks at the goal and get more experience finishing in RL. Some may argue that the competition is easier and ECNL has better defense, but the actual finishing opportunities in a game (game time reps) may be more available in RL especially for players that are as good as ECNL Players. They may not get the pressure, but they could be fine tuning their bend and instincts? This will make them better finishers in ECNL imo.

For defenders though, I want to play the best offense and have constant pressure. Part of why I don't care if my daughter is on the best team. I want her to get the best game time pressure and competition, but I'd rather her be on a team that does not just feed a killer forward line or avoid a lot of pressure defensively due to crazy good midfielders. I want my daughter to have experience handling 2 on 1s or fast freight train forwards, etc. I do want her team to be good though. They have to be able to play from the back and pass through the press. I want to win, but my ultimate goal is to build a college athlete.

I used to play tennis casually competitively and the ultimate way to train was to play against someone better and also someone not as good. You play more tense and consistent against the better player, but you can play loose and take risks vs the player not as good. Another words, you develop and build aggressive instincts against the easier opposition that you eventually use against the better player. If you just play the better player, you end up playing tight and predictable.

The stress and pressure is also a lot for a young adult let alone a teenager. King Richard is a movie people should see. Venus Williams Dad did not want her playing in the junior circuit. He did not like the stress and pressure they faced there. The thing is his daughters were incredible athletes with size and power, so the biggest hurdles were going to be their own heads and bodies. There is a balance to all this. If you have an incredible athlete, the worst thing you can do is kill their joy and bodies with over use of the body. You can win and have fun though and some kids will need to be incredibly skilled to make up for lack of speed/athleticism depending on position.

You have to ask yourelf, would you rather your kid be an outstanding, healthy athlete performing in front of college recruiters or a pretty good player on a top team? Many are choosing to be on the top team rather than where the kid will develop best. Most times it takes a good system to move your kid for best development. Too many parents only see what they consider being dropped.

Point is that kids can develop faster on lower flights and always build back up. So long as the club invites this movement, it's very healthy, positive, and most likely more local and convenient. Too many parents move in packs and lose better development for labels or individual standing. When they earn their spots, nothing can stop them. Parents are part of the problem. They will work in bundles and do whatever they can to avoid the lower flight stigmas. Smart parents focus on where the kid will develop, have fun, and learn to love the competition. Having a club with a good leveling system is very helpful imo.

Clubs have to contend with parents, so it's not just the clubs that create the toxic situations.
 
way up said:
I used to play tennis casually competitively and the ultimate way to train was to play against someone better and also someone not as good. You play more tense and consistent against the better player, but you can play loose and take risks vs the player not as good. Another words, you develop and build aggressive instincts against the easier opposition that you eventually use against the better player. If you just play the better player, you end up playing tight and predictable.
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You know I've been thinking about this concept.

My kid plays on the top team for his age group at a club. A lot of times they play up in tournaments. I guess the idea is to develop kids vs bigger, faster, stronger opponents and so their age group becomes easier?

I get that. But to your point, I do see something missing when it's playing vs toughest opponents whether via playing up or just playing really good teams in general: there is lack of creativity and taking risks.

The games end 2-1, 1-0 and both teams end up bunkering down and playing really good defense because defense wins... And learning to defend is really important too... But I wonder if for youth, it's better to have a score line of 8-5, 7-6. I don't wanna see a 15-0 either which has happened when the team met a flight 2 team in a random tournament a couple of years ago. But a competitive high scoring game I think would be good.

I do wonder sometimes if I should take my kid down a flight... but I can see cons in that too... If only there were ways to stay on his current team... but also mix in some games in lower flights where he gets to try stuff he would never in games with his current team... hmmmmm
 
Socal-Soccer-Dad said:
You know I've been thinking about this concept.

My kid plays on the top team for his age group at a club. A lot of times they play up in tournaments. I guess the idea is to develop kids vs bigger, faster, stronger opponents and so their age group becomes easier?

I get that. But to your point, I do see something missing when it's playing vs toughest opponents whether via playing up or just playing really good teams in general: there is lack of creativity and taking risks.

The games end 2-1, 1-0 and both teams end up bunkering down and playing really good defense because defense wins... And learning to defend is really important too... But I wonder if for youth, it's better to have a score line of 8-5, 7-6. I don't wanna see a 15-0 either which has happened when the team met a flight 2 team in a random tournament a couple of years ago. But a competitive high scoring game I think would be good.

I do wonder sometimes if I should take my kid down a flight... but I can see cons in that too... If only there were ways to stay on his current team... but also mix in some games in lower flights where he gets to try stuff he would never in games with his current team... hmmmmm
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Reach out to the B team team coach and ask to do privates. What will happen is when the B team coach needs extra players for a tournamant they'll call you to see if your kid can guest play. If your current coach asks about doing privates with the B team coach say that you were told that you couldn't do privates with your current coach.
 
Carlsbad7 said:
Reach out to the B team team coach and ask to do privates. What will happen is when the B team coach needs extra players for a tournamant they'll call you to see if your kid can guest play. If your current coach asks about doing privates with the B team coach say that you were told that you couldn't do privates with your current coach.
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I like this idea when they are young they should be exposed to both the hard and the easier games where they can dominate and try new things. Eventually as they get older they should not lose creativity if they train in an instinctive manner where they react to pressure and make decisions based on what they are experiencing in real time. Many mistaken being creative with fancy skills and tricks but it’s not that it’s knowing when to pass and when to dribble and still be creative in the right part of the field. This will only be attained by training 1v1 and playing small sided games. The most creative players have dropped the structured cone drills by age 13 because they have the technical basics & good enough first touch now. They train freely, under pressure and develop creative skills playing through instinct… all of this happening at the hardest environment for the age group. This is where you develop elite creative players.
 
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Luis Andres said:
I like this idea when they are young they should be exposed to both the hard and the easier games where they can dominate and try new things. Eventually as they get older they should not lose creativity if they train in an instinctive manner where they react to pressure and make decisions based on what they are experiencing in real time. Many mistaken being creative with fancy skills and tricks but it’s not that it’s knowing when to pass and when to dribble and still be creative in the right part of the field. This will only be attained by training 1v1 and playing small sided games. The most creative players have dropped the structured cone drills by age 13 because they have the technical basics & good enough first touch now. They train freely, under pressure and develop creative skills playing through instinct… all of this happening at the hardest environment for the age group. This is where you develop elite creative players.
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When players are young, futsal, futsal, futsal. As they get older arena and "latin leagues" this is how you maximize touches + gain tight spaces ball control. You could also do things like unstructured play in the park or just general pickup games.

Let your field coach teach large field tactics and plays but don't forget to keep training for the small sided game.

Reguarding playing up and "down" it doesn't really matter. Different skill levels offer different opportunities. For the parents that say XYZ team cheated because they're playing players down on B teams. Let it go in the end it doesn't matter. Think of it as an opportunity for your kid to better conceptualize what it takes to play at a higher level.
 
Carlsbad7 said:
Reguarding playing up and "down" it doesn't really matter. Different skill levels offer different opportunities. For the parents that say XYZ team cheated because they're playing players down on B teams. Let it go in the end it doesn't matter. Think of it as an opportunity for your kid to better conceptualize what it takes to play at a higher level.
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I've been on all sides of this over the years with multiple kids, from playing up & down in both age and experience. IMO, pulling a better kid down to the lower team such that their presence will materially affect the game outcome, is crappy behavior by the coach. It's not up to their parents to educate the kids/parents on the lower team opponents about how to "better conceptualize" what it means to perform better. It's presumptuous and selfish. However, playing a kid both down on a lower team and also remain on an upper team so they can work on various skills, confidence, whatever, can be incredibly helpful - and is a very good development benefit for any kid that at that moment is on that bubble, and fits reasonably well on both teams.

New rules in Norcal this season, allowing only 3 kids on the match card to come down from an upper team, and only 2 kids on the match card to come up from a lower team. It was getting pretty wild at times last season with it being pretty obvious coaches were playing way more than that from the top team, also on their 2nd (and even 3rd) teams. This should make it somewhat more challenging to stack the lower teams with ringers.
 
way up said:
Wait a minute! Blues played Surf in the finals!!! Correction. Koge lost to Surf in the semis and Surf beat the Blues in the finals. There are so many great teams here that it is hard to keep all the facts straight! Sorry for the error. Really like the idea of Surf Cup being The National Playoffs though. To think so many teams still come from out of state after the playoffs to play at Surf Cup speaks volumes about why it's better here in So Cal too imo.
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FYI, the playoffs next year will be at the Surf fields which is just as good. I think the experience in Richmond is also great, although expensive.
 
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