2020...

tenacious said:
I agree. But at the same time that doesn’t means I agree that socialism is the appropriate response to the excesses of capitalism. Or that I believe that more racism and intolerance is how we fix social inequality. Etc. etc. etc.
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Socialism was a response to unabated power by the elite. When socialism swings to far, it ends up with kleptocracy. But, wanting social programs like public roads, public utilities, public schools and health care for all, is not a long socialist road.
 
Andy Dukes said:
Socialism was a response to unabated power by the elite. When socialism swings to far, it ends up with kleptocracy. But, wanting social programs like public roads, public utilities, public schools and health care for all, is not a long socialist road.
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I think that's what you might mean when you say socialism, but I don't get the idea that fixing bridges and schools is what progressives mean when they say socialism. In fact, I think they are clearly talking about the Marxist dialectic, where by the only way to save the little people is to bring about the end of capitalism. With themselves of course, at the top in charge. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dialectical_materialism)

No thanks...

Ocasio-Cortez: 'Capitalism is irredeemable'
https://thehill.com/homenews/house/433394-ocasio-cortez-capitalism-is-irredeemable

Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D-N.Y.) on Saturday called capitalism "irredeemable."

"Capitalism is an ideology of capital — the most important thing is the concentration of capital and to seek and maximize profit," she said during an interview at the South by Southwest conference in Austin, Texas, according to Bloomberg News.

"To me, capitalism is irredeemable," she added, arguing that capitalism's goals come at a cost to people and the environment, Bloomberg reported.

The congresswoman, who has described herself as a democratic socialist, added during her interview that "we should be scared."

"Just as there’s all this fearmongering that government is going to take over every corporation and government is going to take over every business or every form of production, we should be scared right now because corporations have taken over our government," she said.

Ocasio-Cortez also said that the "emphasis in democratic socialism is on democracy" and expanding the rights of workers.

"It’s just as much a transformation about bringing democracy to the workplace so that we have a say and that we don’t check all of our rights at the door every time we cross the threshold into our workplace," she said. "Because at the end of the day, as workers and as people in society, we’re the ones creating wealth."

“We should be scared right now because corporations have taken over our government.” @AOC explains why she is in favor of democratic socialism at #SXSW #tictocnews pic.twitter.com/1lSLYCyTew
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tenacious said:
I agree. But at the same time that doesn’t means I agree that socialism is the appropriate response to the excesses of capitalism. Or that I believe that more racism and intolerance is how we fix social inequality. Etc. etc. etc.
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There in your post is the evidence, they push the "they want us to be a socialist nation" and you are buying? Who wants us to be a socialist nation and who told you that? The denial that our nation was built on a hybrid of socialism and capitalism is a rightwing construct. There is no such thing as a purely capitalist system, except possibly the black market.
 
Hüsker Dü said:
Did you think that despite facts years of pushing a propaganda filled agenda would soak in and sink us so deep?
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I think if Obama had been a winner we wouldn't have sunk so deep. What the republican's were doing didn't happen in a vacuum, and was only possible after something like 1000 dem seats in local and state elections were lost.
 
Hüsker Dü said:
There in your post is the evidence, they push the "they want us to be a socialist nation" and you are buying? Who wants us to be a socialist nation and who told you that? The denial that our nation was built on a hybrid of socialism and capitalism is a rightwing construct. There is no such thing as a purely capitalist system, except possibly the black market.
Click to expand...

There's video if you don't want to believe the journalist... you tell me what you think she's talking about?

Ocasio-Cortez: 'Capitalism is irredeemable'
https://thehill.com/homenews/house/433394-ocasio-cortez-capitalism-is-irredeemable
 
tenacious said:
I think that's what you might mean when you say socialism, but I don't get the idea that fixing bridges and schools is what progressives mean when they say socialism. In fact, I think they are clearly talking about the Marxist dialectic, where by the only way to save the little people is to bring about the end of capitalism. With themselves of course, at the top in charge. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dialectical_materialism)

No thanks...
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Let me know when the Freshman House member has any real power outside of Instagram.
 
Hüsker Dü said:
Did you think that despite facts years of pushing a propaganda filled agenda would soak in and sink us so deep?
Click to expand...
I for one thought facts and common sense would prevail, I was dead wrong.
tenacious said:
I think if Obama had been a winner we wouldn't have sunk so deep. What the republican's were doing didn't happen in a vacuum, and was only possible after something like 1000 dem seats in local and state elections were lost.
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Possibly a case of winning the battle yet losing the war. The gerrymandering was a bit clandestine and the effects of which were under estimated. In 2010 there was a backlash like 2018 but more intense due to the emotions that were elicited by the t-party and deep racial mistrust in our nation. All they had to do was show Obama's face to way more people than I ever realized and they voted Republican, some for the first time ever. Even traveling in South and seeing how the racial mistrust is DEEP and still thought facts and common sense would prevail, nope. The open racialism that is now prevalent in here as microcosm of what is now shown on national TV and accepted in the world at large (white nationalist dream come true) is frightening.
 
tenacious said:
Hmm.... guess I would find your argument more compelling if I hadn't just watched Trump tweeted his way into the White House.
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So you think there are 30% of America that are that anti government on the left? Trump got there because Reagan set the stage. Don't trust government. The majority on the left are not anarchists and AOC could only win anything more than here little slice of New York by a big wave of anarchy. Most on the left like competent governance. Something the right finds deplorable.
 
Hüsker Dü said:
I for one thought facts and common sense would prevail, I was dead wrong.

Possibly a case of winning the battle yet losing the war. The gerrymandering was a bit clandestine and the effects of which were under estimated. In 2010 there was a backlash like 2018 but more intense due to the emotions that were elicited by the t-party and deep racial mistrust in our nation. All they had to do was show Obama's face to way more people than I ever realized and they voted Republican, some for the first time ever. Even traveling in South and seeing how the racial mistrust is DEEP and still thought facts and common sense would prevail, nope. The open racialism that is now prevalent in here as microcosm of what is now shown on national TV and accepted in the world at large (white nationalist dream come true) is frightening.
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Great post. And I agree. But I also think there is a lot of radicalism on the left too. Which is why I'm pushing for a boring, traditional democrat. Let's get things cooled down and then we can start figuring out how to make things work better. If there is one thing in common across the board, from right to left it's that people want change. Let's just be smart about it and not let the crazy people take over.
 
tenacious said:
There's video if you don't want to believe the journalist... you tell me what you think she's talking about?

Ocasio-Cortez: 'Capitalism is irredeemable'
https://thehill.com/homenews/house/433394-ocasio-cortez-capitalism-is-irredeemable
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If we only could put as much focus on say someone like Steve King, hmmm, where was the outrage machine the last few years in that case? Another case of ring wing entities pushing a narrative to their benefit, divide and conquer . . .
 
Andy Dukes said:
So you think there are 30% of America that are that anti government on the left? Trump got there because Reagan set the stage. Don't trust government. The majority on the left are not anarchists and AOC could only win anything more than here little slice of New York by a big wave of anarchy. Most on the left like competent governance. Something the right finds deplorable.
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I'm saying that's what AOC believes because that's what she's saying she believes. What's scares me, is the power of the populist appeal.
 
tenacious said:
Great post. And I agree. But I also think there is a lot of radicalism on the left too. Which is why I'm pushing for a boring, traditional democrat. Let's get things cooled down and then we can start figuring out how to make things work better. If there is one thing in common across the board, from right to left it's that people want change. Let's just be smart about it and not let the crazy people take over.
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Nothing more traditional and boring than Biden . . . maybe throw in some flavor as VP.
 
Sheriff Joe said:
I think the old guard is afraid of her and the 2020s are already agreeding on her 12 year new deal.
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Nancy flies back and forth to the west coast many times a month. It is more " bless her little heart" than a following. We do need to restructure the power grid and we are doing it in ways you will not notice unless you fly across the mid section of America. Storage is coming closer to a home by home thing or neighborhood thing and that will change many things. Oil is artificially low right now and that is still not enough to stop the trends.
 
Andy Dukes said:
Steve King speaks for a portion of the Republican Party. I don't see him having a position of power.
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Is Steve King that much worse then Trump? Again, people who get up on stage and saying they are going to punish those people and give you their stuff has proven to be an effective way for radicals to gain power.

I don't like Trump. I don't like Steve King. Nor do I like the radicals on the left who make populist arguments either.
 
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