2020 Women's D1 Soccer Talk!!!! EXTENDED TO SPRING '21!!!!

[dk_b]

Just jumping into the JAMA article (not the Newsweek reporting on it), you see this in the "findings": ". . . which was independent of preexisting conditions, severity and overall course of the acute illness, and the time from the original diagnosis." The study's findings were with respect to structural issues and, as a person with structural heart issues, my guess is that the cardiologists can make some conclusions on what is or may be permanent. That said, this is a small study - 100 patients - and under "Meaning" is written, "These findings indicate the need for ongoing investigation of the long-term cardiovascular consequences of COVID-19" and, in those two pre-sections ("Findings" and "Meaning"), no where is it noted that these problems are, indeed, permanent. I'm going to read more but it may be a simple case of Newsweek using a sensational lede.

All that said, I am fine w/the fall season being postponed - hopefully not cancelled - as there is just too much uncertainty (which, at a minimum, this study is highlighting).

I'm reading the JAMA piece on my phone and it's just too dense for that and despite me being of the "proceed cautiously" camp, I think that Newsweek has done a terrible job in presenting these findings in its brief summary. If you don't look at the article, you don't know that of the 100 people, the age range was 45 to 53 (relevant to me - I'm 52 - and probably others on this board but very difficult as a stand-in for 20 year old college athletes). And, as I noted above, the "Findings" and "Meaning" are really calling for MORE study.

The impact on the heart gives me a chill and makes me hope that a young heart is far more resistant than a middle-age heart but we really do need to see more (for example, the exact same analysis of 100 people with an age range of 15 to 23 or 17 to 25) before extending the findings too far (despite what Newsweek seems to want to do for us).

 

[Ellejustus]

Just jumping into the JAMA article (not the Newsweek reporting on it), you see this in the "findings": ". . . which was independent of preexisting conditions, severity and overall course of the acute illness, and the time from the original diagnosis." The study's findings were with respect to structural issues and, as a person with structural heart issues, my guess is that the cardiologists can make some conclusions on what is or may be permanent. That said, this is a small study - 100 patients - and under "Meaning" is written, "These findings indicate the need for ongoing investigation of the long-term cardiovascular consequences of COVID-19" and, in those two pre-sections ("Findings" and "Meaning"), no where is it noted that these problems are, indeed, permanent. I'm going to read more but it may be a simple case of Newsweek using a sensational lede.

All that said, I am fine w/the fall season being postponed - hopefully not cancelled - as there is just too much uncertainty (which, at a minimum, this study is highlighting).

So no soccer games for 12 months? I think their will always be uncertainty, just like I dont know if I will be alive tomorrow. I'm super sad for all of the college players. I know some families with soccer girls and their super bummed out and parents like you not happy. I just talked to dad yesterday and he is pissed. I like your calmness and will learn from it. It's only one year of life ((the best dam years for kids)) and hopefully after Nov 3rd we will have better understanding of the true danger this virus caused. Peace out Smokey

 

[dk_b]

So no soccer games for 12 months? I think their will always be uncertainty, just like I dont know if I will be alive tomorrow. I'm super sad for all of the college players. I know some families with soccer girls and their super bummed out and parents like you not happy. I just talked to dad yesterday and he is pissed. I like your calmness and will learn from it. It's only one year of life ((the best dam years for kids)) and hopefully after Nov 3rd we will have better understanding of the true danger this virus caused. Peace out Smokey

There will always be uncertainty, true. And there is risk with all that we do, that is true as well. But as a public health matter, we are in the infancy w/this illness (fortunately, we have known about coronaviruses for some time so there is a body of knowledge that means the scientists are not starting from zero). If I were an AD or college president, would I be OK with putting students back in congregant living environments + contact sports v teams coming from other communities while relying on statistics that look back 8 months? And in that 8 months, we took young people largely out of circulation by closing schools and colleges? I'm not OK with that and my kid, like many on this board, had half her senior year of HS taken, had her first year college experience gutted, has been in isolation hoping to play w/her team while major real-life BS was happening in her community at home so I understand the impact even if people are not sick.

What happens in this early period, when a player on a Big XII or SEC football team who is living in a dorm comes down with the illness? How does it impact the team he just played against? How about all the dormmates? Teammates? Classmates? Parents? Grandparents? Professors? Food service employees? Etc. Sure, nothing may come of it. And, sure, it may be significant insignificant for all but the people directly touched (and their family members and close friends).

I understand that we all have our own personal risk tolerance and some may feel like enough time has passed and the risk appears low while others may think that barely any time has passed and the risk remains unknown. But b/c this is a public health catastrophe that is indiscriminate (like 2d hand smoke but where the impact is not cancer in 50 years but an illness in weeks), and b/c it is still so new and b/c our national leaders botched something that had they gotten right would have put us in a position that is more like Europe and we'd probably be closer to having sports, dinning in groups, living a more normal life.

I really do hope that more is known in the next 3 months and the NCAA and the conferences are OK with proceeding with a spring schedule. But, as you say, I could die tomorrow. Here's an aside and an example: when my dad was alive, he and I would dream of being able to see my daughter rep the US at a tournament or even a friendly that would take place at home. Sadly (or maybe the best), she was at a YNT camp when he died (and he was lucid until his very last couple of days so he was aware she was there). It was hard on her - she loved my dad very much - and she wanted to come home. But she stayed and had great support and I flew to the camp to watch her in a scrimmage. She played for the US in Jan in FL (about 15 months after he passed) - China was one of the teams and we were alerted to the protocols that the US, the state of FL and the Federation were taking so, as I noted upthread, the knowledge of this virus was there) - and as proud as I was to watch her in a US kit, I shed a lot of tears thinking of my dad and how he would have been there with me (and even though it was a night game, I am 100% certain that the ol' curmudgeon would have kept his dark glasses on). I made the decision to go b/c "you never know" - I have hardware in my body keeping me alive. What if it malfunctions? What if I get hit by a bus when walking my dog? What if the stove catches fire and I'm stuck? No regrets in a 36 hr cross-country trip. But, and here's the key, that is MY life, not my daughter's. I want more knowledge before I think, "yeah. All good. The #s are low. Chances are that the women's soccer player who gets sick and dies will not be my kid". But I'm not good with saying "all good" b/c that kid might be the daughter of someone on this board. Or niece. Or very best friend. Yes, risk exists but I'm not willing to be the first one to use a bungy cord to jump off a cliff and, really, that is what we'd be asking of our young athletes (hey, that cord was designed and tested by engineers . . . it will almost certainly hold. Wanna go first?).

 

[dk_b]

There will always be uncertainty, true. And there is risk with all that we do, that is true as well. But as a public health matter, we are in the infancy w/this illness (fortunately, we have known about coronaviruses for some time so there is a body of knowledge that means the scientists are not starting from zero). If I were an AD or college president, would I be OK with putting students back in congregant living environments + contact sports v teams coming from other communities while relying on statistics that look back 8 months? And in that 8 months, we took young people largely out of circulation by closing schools and colleges? I'm not OK with that and my kid, like many on this board, had half her senior year of HS taken, had her first year college experience gutted, has been in isolation hoping to play w/her team while major real-life BS was happening in her community at home so I understand the impact even if people are not sick.

What happens in this early period, when a player on a Big XII or SEC football team who is living in a dorm comes down with the illness? How does it impact the team he just played against? How about all the dormmates? Teammates? Classmates? Parents? Grandparents? Professors? Food service employees? Etc. Sure, nothing may come of it. And, sure, it may be significant insignificant for all but the people directly touched (and their family members and close friends).

I understand that we all have our own personal risk tolerance and some may feel like enough time has passed and the risk appears low while others may think that barely any time has passed and the risk remains unknown. But b/c this is a public health catastrophe that is indiscriminate (like 2d hand smoke but where the impact is not cancer in 50 years but an illness in weeks), and b/c it is still so new and b/c our national leaders botched something that had they gotten right would have put us in a position that is more like Europe and we'd probably be closer to having sports, dinning in groups, living a more normal life.

I really do hope that more is known in the next 3 months and the NCAA and the conferences are OK with proceeding with a spring schedule. But, as you say, I could die tomorrow. Here's an aside and an example: when my dad was alive, he and I would dream of being able to see my daughter rep the US at a tournament or even a friendly that would take place at home. Sadly (or maybe the best), she was at a YNT camp when he died (and he was lucid until his very last couple of days so he was aware she was there). It was hard on her - she loved my dad very much - and she wanted to come home. But she stayed and had great support and I flew to the camp to watch her in a scrimmage. She played for the US in Jan in FL (about 15 months after he passed) - China was one of the teams and we were alerted to the protocols that the US, the state of FL and the Federation were taking so, as I noted upthread, the knowledge of this virus was there) - and as proud as I was to watch her in a US kit, I shed a lot of tears thinking of my dad and how he would have been there with me (and even though it was a night game, I am 100% certain that the ol' curmudgeon would have kept his dark glasses on). I made the decision to go b/c "you never know" - I have hardware in my body keeping me alive. What if it malfunctions? What if I get hit by a bus when walking my dog? What if the stove catches fire and I'm stuck? No regrets in a 36 hr cross-country trip. But, and here's the key, that is MY life, not my daughter's. I want more knowledge before I think, "yeah. All good. The #s are low. Chances are that the women's soccer player who gets sick and dies will not be my kid". But I'm not good with saying "all good" b/c that kid might be the daughter of someone on this board. Or niece. Or very best friend. Yes, risk exists but I'm not willing to be the first one to use a bungy cord to jump off a cliff and, really, that is what we'd be asking of our young athletes (hey, that cord was designed and tested by engineers . . . it will almost certainly hold. Wanna go first?).

TL/DR: DK is babbling again. He's risk averse. He's OK with waiting. Hopes there's a spring season.

 

[espola]

I'm reading the JAMA piece on my phone and it's just too dense for that and despite me being of the "proceed cautiously" camp, I think that Newsweek has done a terrible job in presenting these findings in its brief summary. If you don't look at the article, you don't know that of the 100 people, the age range was 45 to 53 (relevant to me - I'm 52 - and probably others on this board but very difficult as a stand-in for 20 year old college athletes). And, as I noted above, the "Findings" and "Meaning" are really calling for MORE study.

The impact on the heart gives me a chill and makes me hope that a young heart is far more resistant than a middle-age heart but we really do need to see more (for example, the exact same analysis of 100 people with an age range of 15 to 23 or 17 to 25) before extending the findings too far (despite what Newsweek seems to want to do for us).

Hope?


"We're sending you off to war with an unknown menace, son. I hope you survive unscathed."

 

[Ellejustus]

TL/DR: DK is babbling again. He's risk averse. He's OK with waiting. Hopes there's a spring season.

You can babble all you want sir. You earned it and I'm sorry to hear about your pops missing out on that YNT call up and the hardware you have to have. I guess like someone said earlier, no sports until vaccine. Sports is not that important to risk life over and I agree some of the information we get is scary. No way on Nov 4th someone will say the virus was way over played by some. I'm now accepting the fact that their is no end in site. I would be an asshole to only care that my dd can play one last year of club. Your dd is missing out too and so are all the other players in the Big 10 and Pac 12. I feel sick now for being on this site for so long hopping my dd could go out with a bang. Some say it's my selfishness. It's my ego and I know it. Carl has been telling me to move on from all this and let it go. I'm super torn today with what to do. I might write my goodbye to all of you as Mirage did. I'm dead serious. This 50/50 political stuff ((pick a side or else)) is way over my head and I actually still want my head after all this is over. I tend to piss some folks off and they get angry. This is party lines kind of life were living in now and it really sickens me because so many innocent people are caught in the middle. I'm actually feeling depressed over all this. One thing I learned DK, be calm and I learned that from you. Thanks for sharing bro and please stay safe.

 

[dk_b]

You can babble all you want sir. You earned it and I'm sorry to hear about your pops missing out on that YNT call up and the hardware you have to have. I guess like someone said earlier, no sports until vaccine. Sports is not that important to risk life over and I agree some of the information we get is scary. No way on Nov 4th someone will say the virus was way over played by some. I'm now accepting the fact that their is no end in site. I would be an asshole to only care that my dd can play one last year of club. Your dd is missing out too and so are all the other players in the Big 10 and Pac 12. I feel sick now for being on this site for so long hopping my dd could go out with a bang. Some say it's my selfishness. It's my ego and I know it. Carl has been telling me to move on from all this and let it go. I'm super torn today with what to do. I might write my goodbye to all of you as Mirage did. I'm dead serious. This 50/50 political stuff ((pick a side or else)) is way over my head and I actually still want my head after all this is over. I tend to piss some folks off and they get angry. This is party lines kind of life were living in now and it really sickens me because so many innocent people are caught in the middle. I'm actually feeling depressed over all this. One thing I learned DK, be calm and I learned that from you. Thanks for sharing bro and please stay safe.

btw - when i referred to “upthread”, I may have been thinking of a different thread covering similar topics.

 

[Simisoccerfan]

Hope?


"We're sending you off to war with an unknown menace, son. I hope you survive unscathed."

This the same advice I would give to anyone reading your posts! lol

 

[Mystery Train]

There will always be uncertainty, true. And there is risk with all that we do, that is true as well. But as a public health matter, we are in the infancy w/this illness (fortunately, we have known about coronaviruses for some time so there is a body of knowledge that means the scientists are not starting from zero). If I were an AD or college president, would I be OK with putting students back in congregant living environments + contact sports v teams coming from other communities while relying on statistics that look back 8 months? And in that 8 months, we took young people largely out of circulation by closing schools and colleges? I'm not OK with that and my kid, like many on this board, had half her senior year of HS taken, had her first year college experience gutted, has been in isolation hoping to play w/her team while major real-life BS was happening in her community at home so I understand the impact even if people are not sick.

What happens in this early period, when a player on a Big XII or SEC football team who is living in a dorm comes down with the illness? How does it impact the team he just played against? How about all the dormmates? Teammates? Classmates? Parents? Grandparents? Professors? Food service employees? Etc. Sure, nothing may come of it. And, sure, it may be significant insignificant for all but the people directly touched (and their family members and close friends).

I understand that we all have our own personal risk tolerance and some may feel like enough time has passed and the risk appears low while others may think that barely any time has passed and the risk remains unknown. But b/c this is a public health catastrophe that is indiscriminate (like 2d hand smoke but where the impact is not cancer in 50 years but an illness in weeks), and b/c it is still so new and b/c our national leaders botched something that had they gotten right would have put us in a position that is more like Europe and we'd probably be closer to having sports, dinning in groups, living a more normal life.

I really do hope that more is known in the next 3 months and the NCAA and the conferences are OK with proceeding with a spring schedule. But, as you say, I could die tomorrow. Here's an aside and an example: when my dad was alive, he and I would dream of being able to see my daughter rep the US at a tournament or even a friendly that would take place at home. Sadly (or maybe the best), she was at a YNT camp when he died (and he was lucid until his very last couple of days so he was aware she was there). It was hard on her - she loved my dad very much - and she wanted to come home. But she stayed and had great support and I flew to the camp to watch her in a scrimmage. She played for the US in Jan in FL (about 15 months after he passed) - China was one of the teams and we were alerted to the protocols that the US, the state of FL and the Federation were taking so, as I noted upthread, the knowledge of this virus was there) - and as proud as I was to watch her in a US kit, I shed a lot of tears thinking of my dad and how he would have been there with me (and even though it was a night game, I am 100% certain that the ol' curmudgeon would have kept his dark glasses on). I made the decision to go b/c "you never know" - I have hardware in my body keeping me alive. What if it malfunctions? What if I get hit by a bus when walking my dog? What if the stove catches fire and I'm stuck? No regrets in a 36 hr cross-country trip. But, and here's the key, that is MY life, not my daughter's. I want more knowledge before I think, "yeah. All good. The #s are low. Chances are that the women's soccer player who gets sick and dies will not be my kid". But I'm not good with saying "all good" b/c that kid might be the daughter of someone on this board. Or niece. Or very best friend. Yes, risk exists but I'm not willing to be the first one to use a bungy cord to jump off a cliff and, really, that is what we'd be asking of our young athletes (hey, that cord was designed and tested by engineers . . . it will almost certainly hold. Wanna go first?).

Dk, you're way too intelligent and rational to be a soccer parent. I call BS!

 

[dk_b]

Hope?


"We're sending you off to war with an unknown menace, son. I hope you survive unscathed."

Yes, "hope". But in reading my posts, I'd expect that it's clear that "hope", for me, is not enough. I'd assume you have the same hope and that everyone has the same hope - who wouldn't hope that young people don't suffer as much damage as middle-age or older folks?

The Newsweek article is poor but the underlying study is interesting and I'm going to try to slog my way through it. It's cautionary and seems easily replicable using a younger cohort. Until it is repeated over and over with larger groups, it's usefulness is as a cautionary anecdote. And given my risk aversion, that's enough for me at this point.

 

[dk_b]

Dk, you're way too intelligent and rational to be a soccer parent. I call BS!

Ha ha! I like sharing and I don't like fighting online. Back in the thumbs down days, I'd always ask for an explanation re a disagreement rather than just a thumbs down - and I never used that feature. I learn a lot from all of you and when I read something w/which I disagree (or even a thread that leaves me with disgust - I will often read w/o commenting), I often come away better informed and either questioning, changing or reaffirming my beliefs (reading a disagreeing view but reaffirming my opinion is a positive exercise for an old guy).

 

[Desert Hound]

our national leaders botched something that had they gotten right would have put us in a position that is more like Europe and we'd probably be closer to having sports, dinning in groups, living a more normal life.

You know that if you look at Germany, France, UK, Spain, Italy combined they have about as many deaths as the US. And those countries combined have about the same population as the US.

So what they did, didn't make much of a difference relative to the US.

 

[SD_Soccer]

Ha ha! I like sharing and I don't like fighting online. Back in the thumbs down days, I'd always ask for an explanation re a disagreement rather than just a thumbs down - and I never used that feature. I learn a lot from all of you and when I read something w/which I disagree (or even a thread that leaves me with disgust - I will often read w/o commenting), I often come away better informed and either questioning, changing or reaffirming my beliefs (reading a disagreeing view but reaffirming my opinion is a positive exercise for an old guy).

I believe in science. I believe in scientists. We are getting more rapid and accurate tests (spit) that can allow us to find and isolate the sick and prevent spread. We sequenced the virus and we know the target to create vaccines and antivirals. We have artificial intelligence to more rapidly go through the scientific discovery process. We will get back to a more normal life, and I believe it will be by next summer at latest. This virus is not as complex as HIV/AIDS. We will win, just not as quick as any of us would like (and try being a teenager or young adult who has little life experience to contextualize this virus). I want my son and daughter to get back playing again. This is harder for my son than daughter since this is his senior year of high school and he doesn’t want to play in college, so his last chance. At least my daughter will have 2 more years of college (3 if she stays for a 5th year— not likely as she is pre-med and needs medical hours before applying).

 

[dk_b]

I believe in science. I believe in scientists. We are getting more rapid and accurate tests (spit) that can allow us to find and isolate the sick and prevent spread. We sequenced the virus and we know the target to create vaccines and antivirals. We have artificial intelligence to more rapidly go through the scientific discovery process. We will get back to a more normal life, and I believe it will be by next summer at latest. This virus is not as complex as HIV/AIDS. We will win, just not as quick as any of us would like (and try being a teenager or young adult who has little life experience to contextualize this virus). I want my son and daughter to get back playing again. This is harder for my son than daughter since this is his senior year of high school and he doesn’t want to play in college, so his last chance. At least my daughter will have 2 more years of college (3 if she stays for a 5th year— not likely as she is pre-med and needs medical hours before applying).

Well said. I agree with much of that - and noted several of those points on the other thread covering this stuff. Even if we implemented some of the testing (whether the quick tests, pool tests in congregant living or working environments, combination) and some of non-invasive, non-disruptive actions (hand-washing, masks) and even a short but intense period of isolation, we'd be there sooner - at least in terms of significant slowing down and some return to normalcy.

You know that if you look at Germany, France, UK, Spain, Italy combined they have about as many deaths as the US. And those countries combined have about the same population as the US.

So what they did, didn't make much of a difference relative to the US.

A rough count looks like we have about 10MM more people (about 3%) and about 40K (about 23%) more deaths right now. But their current numbers, even with some small outbreaks, are much better than ours as we continue to have new cases and, soon enough, new deaths. We will be over 200K but how many is too many or how many is a statistical blip? For some, 200K is the same as 500K or 1MM - still not even 1/2 of 1% - so long as it has not hit someone close to them. For others, we reached crisis numbers after our deaths were in the thousands. I don't expect any one person to have the same perspective that I do nor will I share someone else's 100%. But when the "getting it wrong" means more spread and more death, I don't think we can afford to take the chance. Especially because some measures exist to slow things down and, as @SD_Soccer states, more aggressive solutions will be here.

 

[MakeAPlay]

There is about zero risk for the players. Nationwide 275 people under 24 have died due to covid.

So they have really no risk.

Yes not playing for a national championship SUCKS. At the least they can play to win their conferences, play vs their normal rivals, AND play for the love of the game.

That is what they would be playing for.

LOL!!!!!!

Sounds like you are okay with risking your kid's life and long term health for the chance not to play for a national championship. Sounds like that makes a lot of sense to me. My kid loves the game but she wouldn't be playing if there wasn't such robust testing (3-4 times a week) and a bubble. Good luck to your player.

 

[MSK357]

LOL!!!!!!

Sounds like you are okay with risking your kid's life and long term health for the chance not to play for a national championship. Sounds like that makes a lot of sense to me. My kid loves the game but she wouldn't be playing if there wasn't such robust testing (3-4 times a week) and a bubble. Good luck to your player.

You do know hundreds of people under 24 die every year from the seasonal flu right? If we go by statistics for kids under 24, the flu is more dangerous than COVID. By your logic, we've been risking kids lives from the flu every flu season.

Estimated Flu-Related Illnesses, Medical visits, Hospitalizations, and Deaths in the United States — 2018–2019 Flu Season | CDC

CDC calculates estimates of disease burden in the United States using surveillance data and modeling to adjust for sources of under-detection. Burden estimates for the 2018-2019 season found here.

www.cdc.gov

 

[Desert Hound]

You do know hundreds of people under 24 die every year from the seasonal flu right? If we go by statistics for kids under 24, the flu is more dangerous than COVID. By your logic, we've been risking kids lives from the flu every flu season.

Estimated Flu-Related Illnesses, Medical visits, Hospitalizations, and Deaths in the United States — 2018–2019 Flu Season | CDC

CDC calculates estimates of disease burden in the United States using surveillance data and modeling to adjust for sources of under-detection. Burden estimates for the 2018-2019 season found here.

www.cdc.gov

And therein lies the problem.

People do not look at stats. The news doesn't provide context either.

All you hear is covid is deadly, etc. etc. It is to certain groups. Mainly 80+ individuals.

The stats clearly show there is virtually zero risk to under 24 yr olds. CDC has the stats. Compare the 24 and under age group covid deaths vs the flu over the same time period.

And further note that is not some biased source of info from a right or left group. Those stats are compiled by the CDC. All the other countries show the same thing in terms of who is at risk.

 

[dk_b]

You do know hundreds of people under 24 die every year from the seasonal flu right? If we go by statistics for kids under 24, the flu is more dangerous than COVID. By your logic, we've been risking kids lives from the flu every flu season.

Estimated Flu-Related Illnesses, Medical visits, Hospitalizations, and Deaths in the United States — 2018–2019 Flu Season | CDC

CDC calculates estimates of disease burden in the United States using surveillance data and modeling to adjust for sources of under-detection. Burden estimates for the 2018-2019 season found here.

www.cdc.gov

Is the data there to support that? We did shut schools, stop sports, curtail much congregant activity since mid-March. Do we actually know that, given the 170,000 and counting (which is way more than the estimated 24,000 to 62,000 flu deaths in the 2018-19 flu season), that had people younger than 24 been living a "normal" life, COVID would still be considered less deadly than the flu? I'm not able to come to that conclusion given how much and how little we know about this. So unless the statistics actually account for the significant change in youthful behavior in 2020, the conclusion that "the flu is more dangerous than COVID" seems really subjective.

 

[EOTL]

Well said. I agree with much of that - and noted several of those points on the other thread covering this stuff. Even if we implemented some of the testing (whether the quick tests, pool tests in congregant living or working environments, combination) and some of non-invasive, non-disruptive actions (hand-washing, masks) and even a short but intense period of isolation, we'd be there sooner - at least in terms of significant slowing down and some return to normalcy.




A rough count looks like we have about 10MM more people (about 3%) and about 40K (about 23%) more deaths right now. But their current numbers, even with some small outbreaks, are much better than ours as we continue to have new cases and, soon enough, new deaths. We will be over 200K but how many is too many or how many is a statistical blip? For some, 200K is the same as 500K or 1MM - still not even 1/2 of 1% - so long as it has not hit someone close to them. For others, we reached crisis numbers after our deaths were in the thousands. I don't expect any one person to have the same perspective that I do nor will I share someone else's 100%. But when the "getting it wrong" means more spread and more death, I don't think we can afford to take the chance. Especially because some measures exist to slow things down and, as @SD_Soccer states, more aggressive solutions will be here.

Also keep in mind that comparing deaths in European countries is misleading in that the vast majority of those deaths occurred to people who were infected before countries even had any idea what was happening, how dangerous it is, and how if is spread. There were roughly 60k deaths in those countries in March and the first few days of April. There is no excuse for what continues to happen in the US, however, other than Americans are dumb and will make any misleading or false argument to rationalize their ongoing stupid and dangerous behavior. If we’d done what European countries did, there wouldn’t be 1,000+ dying here every day with no end in sight.

 

[EOTL]

And therein lies the problem.

People do not look at stats. The news doesn't provide context either.

All you hear is covid is deadly, etc. etc. It is to certain groups. Mainly 80+ individuals.

The stats clearly show there is virtually zero risk to under 24 yr olds. CDC has the stats. Compare the 24 and under age group covid deaths vs the flu over the same time period.

And further note that is not some biased source of info from a right or left group. Those stats are compiled by the CDC. All the other countries show the same thing in terms of who is at risk.

173,000 have died of Covid-19 so far with another 1000+ a day. How does that stack up with the flu?