T 2.0

watfly said:
Responses above.

Issues the left has become more extreme within the last couple decades:
  • Illegal immigration (sanctuary cities, increased benefits etc)
  • Crime (defund the police, and promoting lack of cooperation with law enforcement). Although, they may be rethinking defund the police.
  • Abortion. Democrat's refuse to articulate a time cutoff for abortions, and while only a few political Dems have mentioned abortion up to birth, the fact they won't say gives credibility to unlimited abortion.
  • LBTQ Isssues/Transgender Rights - Allowing men to compete against women. Believing its OK for young school children to read books with graphic descriptions of sex. The left calls it book banning if the kids aren't allowed to read it in class.
  • Parents Rights - Preventing teachers and other professionals from providing critical information to parents about their children. Labeling parents terrorists
  • Censorship and the suppression of information
  • Anti-Semitism
  • Identity politics. Basing policies on identity and not merit, and refusing to define what a woman is
  • Climate change (banning gas powered vehicles, gas stoves etc)
  • Language Manipulation (birthing person, etc)
  • Movement towards elitism and away from the working class
AOC is the de facto leader of the Democrats according to polling, so you can't discount anything related to her, either.
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To plagiarize part of your reply, rank-and-file Democrat's couldn't care less about most of your list. Most would actually be against many items on it such as, but not limited to, defunding the police, identity politics, censorship, elitism, your LBTQ spiel and the anti-Semitism BS label that is so misused (aka the racism label that is just as misused).

Politicians and commentators and opinion writers/talkers/makers are in the business of taking extremes and labeling their opponents, en masse as being on board with those extreme positions. That's what wins votes and that's what culture wars are about.

No political party wins elections by pointing out that we are overwhelmingly more alike than different. That ship has long since sailed.

The reaction to my "Cleese" post just demonstrates how nailed on he had it and how its so relevant today.
 
watfly said:
Forgot, the weaponization of the non-cable media. ABC, NBC, CBS, PBS, NPR
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How much were Fox fined again for lying? What was their defense again, that its not news just opinions and nobody should believe it or take it seriously ... or something like that. Of course there was also the public apology from Newsmax and the lawsuits settled by OAN.

In other words, pot, kettle, black.

How the F can you only see one side of this?
 
whatithink said:
How much were Fox fined again for lying? What was their defense again, that its not news just opinions and nobody should believe it or take it seriously ... or something like that. Of course there was also the public apology from Newsmax and the lawsuits settled by OAN.

In other words, pot, kettle, black.

How the F can you only see one side of this?
Click to expand...
I'm sorry which one of those is ABC, NBC, CBS, PBS, NPR? Yes, cable news is biased. We all know that MSNBC is far left and Fox News is far right that's a given. That's where you go for confirmation bias. Network news should be unbiased, but they we're weaponized by the left.

Now if you want to argue that network news is no longer relevant, I will concede that point, but it still doesn't mean that they haven't swung pretty far to the left.
 
whatithink said:
Notwithstanding that I did not say the left had not become more extreme, my comment certainly seems to have triggered some!

  • Trade policy is radically different and more protectionist than traditional free trade, market driven
  • GOP policy used to be market based solutions to climate change and now its just F climate change
  • Abortion and reproductive rights used to be against, but definitely exceptions for rape, incest etc, now its just NO and also ignore the stated will of the electorate, e.g. Florida.
  • Ten commandments on public display in schools, Florida's "don't say gay" law
  • Election denial has become widespread
  • How many GOPers have now been labelled as RINOs despite being decades long conservative lawmakers?
  • Trump is the leader of the GOP, so you can't discount anything related to him, not least his behavior which others emulate.
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To go point by point.

Trade policy has been more protectionist. We have lost our manufacturing and are largely dependent upon China which is not our friend. The GOP realizes it is not in the best interests to hollow out manufacturing and offshoring it to a country that is a dictatorship. This is a good shift in policy.

GOP has never been fully on board with climate change. The solutions offered up by the left mean higher prices, less reliability on energy, etc.

Abortion rights are now back to the states where it should have been decided decades ago.

Ten commandments, don't say gay? FL never had a don't say gay thing going on. This is disinformation. There is no GOP wide push for ten commandments in school. It is a non issue.

Election denial has been part and parcel starting with GW BUSH.

GOPers labeled as RHINO has increased. WHY? Because we have a political class that talks up issues when running for election and then in power do the opposite. Think McCain. I watched numerous political ads with him in a cowboy had with a bit of an accent demanding to shut the border and build a wall. When re elected voted the other way all the time. Those are Rhinos. The electorate who are Rep are tired of the bait and switch and are calling these people out.

Trump has been rather effective. He is showing others to discount the press and attack them when they parrot or push D lines. For too long Rs have allowed the press to push the narrative. T has shown there is another path. That path is common sense. More common sense is putting to bed the lie that you need more lies to actually secure the border. Showing how much waste is in the gov, etc. For to long it has been oh...we cant do anything. Truth is you can.
 
Desert Hound said:
To go point by point.

Trade policy has been more protectionist. We have lost our manufacturing and are largely dependent upon China which is not our friend. The GOP realizes it is not in the best interests to hollow out manufacturing and offshoring it to a country that is a dictatorship. This is a good shift in policy.

GOP has never been fully on board with climate change. The solutions offered up by the left mean higher prices, less reliability on energy, etc.

Abortion rights are now back to the states where it should have been decided decades ago.

Ten commandments, don't say gay? FL never had a don't say gay thing going on. This is disinformation. There is no GOP wide push for ten commandments in school. It is a non issue.

Election denial has been part and parcel starting with GW BUSH.

GOPers labeled as RHINO has increased. WHY? Because we have a political class that talks up issues when running for election and then in power do the opposite. Think McCain. I watched numerous political ads with him in a cowboy had with a bit of an accent demanding to shut the border and build a wall. When re elected voted the other way all the time. Those are Rhinos. The electorate who are Rep are tired of the bait and switch and are calling these people out.

Trump has been rather effective. He is showing others to discount the press and attack them when they parrot or push D lines. For too long Rs have allowed the press to push the narrative. T has shown there is another path. That path is common sense. More common sense is putting to bed the lie that you need more lies to actually secure the border. Showing how much waste is in the gov, etc. For to long it has been oh...we cant do anything. Truth is you can.
Click to expand...
  • We purposely outsourced our manufacturing and loved it. It will move to other countries with limited returning and only then if it can be predominantly automated.
  • GOP was fine with business resolving climate change, it has now gone full bore on fossil fuels, which is fine, just own it.
  • Every US citizen should have the same rights, healthcare being one of them.
  • 4 GOP states have passed legislation on ten commandments in schools, 15 have filed legislation on it. If that isn't a GOP push, then we have radically different definitions.
  • Election denial has increased dramatically.
  • RINOs, aka moderates or centrists, have been pushed out. We agree. BTW, that would be a move to the right, but hey!
  • Trump is interesting. He is governing by fiat / EO. I'm down with securing the border. The waste in government is misleading. Its more removing spend on items which no longer agree with the current admins policy. The Q is if that's legal, given that Congress has funded it. The courts will decide in most cases. I do think that when politicians collectively use certain phrases, without every backing them up - you know its a crock of 💩. Exhibit A in this instance would be "waste, fraud, and abuse". We will NEVER resolve the deficit via eliminating "waste, fraud, and abuse", and anyone who mentions that as a way to do it is a lying sack of 💩. But now I'm talking about liars and hypocrites and the left/right Dems/GOP have them in equal measure.
 
Here is an example of common sense.

We have been told we need more laws to secure the border...something the majority of Americans want.

Contrast and compare..

Border Patrol agents didn't release a single migrant into the US last month -- a staggering drop after the Biden administration allowed 64,000 illegal crossers in the country in May 2024, The Post can exclusively reveal.
Agents caught 8,725 migrants crossing illegally at the southern border last month.

That's a 93% decrease from May 2024, when 117,905 were nabbed, according to internal data obtained by The Post.

Now recall that the mainstream press and the Ds and the WH all claimed the border was secure for years under Biden. Only till the end did they claim...well if the GOP hadn't scuttled a deal they could secure the border. BUT...FOX NEWS is biased or something ....right? Fox got a fine. The same people highlighting that forget that for years the press told us Biden was a sharp as a tack. Now we find out (many of us knew) that he wasn't even up to it in 2019 when he was running. That should be one of the biggest scandals over the last 100 yrs. We had a guy who had no business making toast and yet he was in theory Prez. The Ds, the WH and and Press lied to us and said they guy was all there.

It is refreshing to have a guy come in and do what he said he would do. That is why he won. That is why he made inroads in minority communities, etc.
 
watfly said:
I'm sorry which one of those is ABC, NBC, CBS, PBS, NPR? Yes, cable news is biased. We all know that MSNBC is far left and Fox News is far right that's a given. That's where you go for confirmation bias. Network news should be unbiased, but they we're weaponized by the left.

Now if you want to argue that network news is no longer relevant, I will concede that point, but it still doesn't mean that they haven't swung pretty far to the left.
Click to expand...
The craziest thing about the stats below is that 22% of the "next common" cite Joe Rogan's podcast as their news source :eek:.

  • Republicans:
    • 57% rely regularly on Fox News — more than twice the share for any other single source pewresearch.org.
    • Next common: ABC (27%), NBC (24%), CBS (22%), Joe Rogan podcast (22%), Newsmax (15%), The Daily Wire (12%), Tucker Carlson Network (9%) pewresearch.org.
  • Democrats:
    • More diverse media diet: CNN (48%), NBC (47%), ABC (46%), CBS (39%), MSNBC (33%), NPR (32%), AP (31%), PBS (31%), BBC (30%), NYT (29%) pewresearch.org.
  • Overlap:
    • 20% of Republicans also get news from CNN, and 18% of Democrats from Fox News
 
whatithink said:
  • We purposely outsourced our manufacturing and loved it. It will move to other countries with limited returning and only then if it can be predominantly automated.
  • GOP was fine with business resolving climate change, it has now gone full bore on fossil fuels, which is fine, just own it.
  • Every US citizen should have the same rights, healthcare being one of them.
  • 4 GOP states have passed legislation on ten commandments in schools, 15 have filed legislation on it. If that isn't a GOP push, then we have radically different definitions.
  • Election denial has increased dramatically.
  • RINOs, aka moderates or centrists, have been pushed out. We agree. BTW, that would be a move to the right, but hey!
  • Trump is interesting. He is governing by fiat / EO. I'm down with securing the border. The waste in government is misleading. Its more removing spend on items which no longer agree with the current admins policy. The Q is if that's legal, given that Congress has funded it. The courts will decide in most cases. I do think that when politicians collectively use certain phrases, without every backing them up - you know its a crock of 💩. Exhibit A in this instance would be "waste, fraud, and abuse". We will NEVER resolve the deficit via eliminating "waste, fraud, and abuse", and anyone who mentions that as a way to do it is a lying sack of 💩. But now I'm talking about liars and hypocrites and the left/right Dems/GOP have them in equal measure.
Click to expand...
Point by point.

Yep we purposely outsourced manufacturing and the elites loved it. Strategically it isn't a smart move and it hurts long term US interests. That is why there is a change.

GOP as a whole has never been on board with climate change. For the forseable future fossil fuels will be the dominate energy source. It is only realistic to acknowledge that and take advantage of our resources to make us less reliant on other countries and or unreliable sources of energy (that cost a lot more to the consumer).

Healthcare? Isn't a right per say as you are implying (which I take it to be single payer).

Ten commandments? You don't see the national GOP push this. It isn't a national issue. If 4 states have this where somewhere in a classroom where kids can see it, not sure what harm it does. It doesn't...trick question. I dont push for it. But if on the spectrum of 4 states having the 10 commandments vs more dem states pushing boys can be girls...I like most people go the traditional route.

Most election denial comes from the left. One only has to look at Bush, Bush again, Trump 1 and now Trump 2. If we are to add up denial, it comes far more frequently from the left.

You will eliminate a lot of the deficit getting rid of waste, fraud, etc. So much of what we spend is totally unnecessary. A program gets put in place and just grows and grows. Our departments do not run efficiently by any stretch. What is telling that even talking of cutting waste, fraud, etc. put the D party on the vapors. CA on the state level over the past few years has spent 24 billion on the homeless with literally zero to show for it. Another endeavor was to spend billions on low income housing...with virtually all the money spent and basically no housing built. CA has spent billions on billions on the high speed train with virtually nothing built. Same crap happens on the Fed level.
 
whatithink said:
The craziest thing about the stats below is that 22% of the "next common" cite Joe Rogan's podcast as their news source :eek:.

  • Republicans:
    • 57% rely regularly on Fox News — more than twice the share for any other single source pewresearch.org.
    • Next common: ABC (27%), NBC (24%), CBS (22%), Joe Rogan podcast (22%), Newsmax (15%), The Daily Wire (12%), Tucker Carlson Network (9%) pewresearch.org.
  • Democrats:
    • More diverse media diet: CNN (48%), NBC (47%), ABC (46%), CBS (39%), MSNBC (33%), NPR (32%), AP (31%), PBS (31%), BBC (30%), NYT (29%) pewresearch.org.
  • Overlap:
    • 20% of Republicans also get news from CNN, and 18% of Democrats from Fox Net
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Ha, ha, more diverse, WTF. Democrats are diversity of channels, but not of thought. Democrat's are getting information from all left leaning sources. Whereas, the right does get info from ABC NBC and CBS, which are well documented left leaning.

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It's sad that our network news have chosen a preferred narrative absent the facts. Prima Facie evidence is their active participation in the attempted coverup of Biden's cognitive decline.

The left's claims of diversity are a total crock of shit.

To be perfectly honest, I'm more concerned about people getting their news from social media than I am network and cable news.
 
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