San Diego Section DI Power rankings

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Does anyone know how Ties are scored in the CIF San Diego Section? The chart shows wins and losses, but says nothing about Ties. The points assigned for Ties seems very inconsistent from team to team in the same Division, with very similar win/loss records. Also, does the system update points when a teams level changes due to win/loss record mid season? Seems unfair to score matches with a differnt level factor in the same season against the same team. If that makes any sense. Does CIF recalculate all the points at the end of the season once all matched have been played, and the win/loss record is settled?

 

[espola]

Does anyone know how Ties are scored in the CIF San Diego Section? The chart shows wins and losses, but says nothing about Ties. The points assigned for Ties seems very inconsistent from team to team in the same Division, with very similar win/loss records. Also, does the system update points when a teams level changes due to win/loss record mid season? Seems unfair to score matches with a differnt level factor in the same season against the same team. If that makes any sense. Does CIF recalculate all the points at the end of the season once all matched have been played, and the win/loss record is settled?

Ties are included in the charts.

The final calculations of Power Rankings are executed after the last games are reported.

 

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Ties are included in the charts.

The final calculations of Power Rankings are executed after the last games are reported.

Thanks. I went back and looked at the page on the computer instead of the phone. I think I just couldn't see it on the mobile chart. Have you seen much movement in the rankings in the past after the final calculations are complete?

 

[espola]

Thanks. I went back and looked at the page on the computer instead of the phone. I think I just couldn't see it on the mobile chart. Have you seen much movement in the rankings in the past after the final calculations are complete?

No big surprises at the top levels (Open and D1 playoffs) but I imagine those calculations are carefully inspected by all interested parties. One issue is that the Power Rankings disappear from public view on the day that playoff pairings are set (Saturday, Feb 11 this year) so it is pointless to try a detailed examination.

 

[SDMama]

A real treasure -- a Freshman who is the leading scorer on the team.

Stats - Del Norte Nighthawks (San Diego, CA) Girls Varsity Soccer 22-23 (maxpreps.com)

This complicates things even more, for if her DQ is the reason for the forfeits, then they should be rescinded as well.

Just saw that the player mentioned in the news story will be attending U-15 YNT camp next week (during the last week of league). Should be interesting to see how they do without her.
And is that an approved camp? Or will she need to sit out post season? (The father in the news story emphasized the idea that the Wave camp wasn’t a tryout since there was no team to be made/formed. That isn’t the case with the YNT camp, right?)

 

[espola]

Just saw that the player mentioned in the news story will be attending U-15 YNT camp next week (during the last week of league). Should be interesting to see how they do without her.
And is that an approved camp? Or will she need to sit out post season? (The father in the news story emphasized the idea that the Wave camp wasn’t a tryout since there was no team to be made/formed. That isn’t the case with the YNT camp, right?)

YNT camps are categorically exempt from punishment, assuming that all the hoops have been jumped through in the right order.

 

[espola]

One week left --

Boys side --

 

[espola]

Girls side (note that there are three games in which both sides claim wins in the calculations, Del Norte's games against Westview, San Marcos, and La Costa Canyon. Those games are especially significant since Westview and Del Norte are #1 and #2 in the Power Rankings as they stand on the Section website)

 

[mccorn]

A real treasure -- a Freshman who is the leading scorer on the team.

Stats - Del Norte Nighthawks (San Diego, CA) Girls Varsity Soccer 22-23 (maxpreps.com)

This complicates things even more, for if her DQ is the reason for the forfeits, then they should be rescinded as well.

Should be rescinded, but won't be.
Del Norte hasn't lost a league game on the field. They're by far away the best team, proven by on-the-field results. They have taken care of business, both with or without the freshman (she sat out for 3 games).

 

[mccorn]

Just saw that the player mentioned in the news story will be attending U-15 YNT camp next week (during the last week of league). Should be interesting to see how they do without her.
And is that an approved camp? Or will she need to sit out post season? (The father in the news story emphasized the idea that the Wave camp wasn’t a tryout since there was no team to be made/formed. That isn’t the case with the YNT camp, right?)

DN will be fine w/o her. She's good, but DN has a deep team with multiple scoring threats and solid defenders.

 

[justneededaname]

Thanks. I went back and looked at the page on the computer instead of the phone. I think I just couldn't see it on the mobile chart. Have you seen much movement in the rankings in the past after the final calculations are complete?

One of the biggest changes has to do with head-to-head. Once the point rankings are final, they go down the list and look at head-to-head. If a team beat the team above them, then the two swap. For example if the second place team played the first place team once and beat them, then those two would swap positions in the rankings. I believe in this case, on the boys side that will move San Pasqual above SDA.

 

[espola]

One of the biggest changes has to do with head-to-head. Once the point rankings are final, they go down the list and look at head-to-head. If a team beat the team above them, then the two swap. For example if the second place team played the first place team once and beat them, then those two would swap positions in the rankings. I believe in this case, on the boys side that will move San Pasqual above SDA.

I did not know that.

 

[espola]

Some analysis on the boys side -- the only teams worth 50 points as an opponent in the Power Rankings calculations are San Pasqual, San Dieguito Academy, Eastlake, and Poway.

The last week's games --

Current top 8 --
San Dieguito Academy (46.41) -- San Pasqual (50), Rancho Bernardo (48)
San Pasqual (46.05)-- San Dieguito Academy (50), Del Norte (46)
Eastlake (45.74) -- Southwest (SD) (48), Sweetwater (48)
St. Augustine (45.71) -- University City (48), Cathedral (46)
Del Norte (45.38) -- Carlsbad (46), San Pasqual (50)
Poway (44.94) -- Westview (48), Canyon Crest (46)
Torrey Pines (44.8) -- Rancho Bernardo (48), Carlsbad (46)
Sweetwater (44.77) -- Mongomery (45), Eastlake (50)

9-20 --
Rancho Bernardo (44.62) -- Torrey Pines (48), San Dieguito Academy (50)
Cathedral (44.38) -- Coronado (48), St. Augustine (48)
Southwest (SD) (44.25) -- Eastlake (50), Mongomery (45)
Point Loma (44.06) -- Coronado (48), University City (48)
Westview (43.81) -- Poway (50), Fallbrook (47)
University City (43.74) -- St. Augustine (48), Point Loma (48)
Coronado (43.69) -- Point Loma (48)
Calexico (43.62) -- Brwley (47), Holtville (43)
Carlsbad (43.56) --Del Norte (48), Torrey Pines (48)
Canyon Crest (42.8) -- Oceanside (45), Poway (50)
Escondido (42.4) -- Fallbrook (47), Oceanside (45)
Francis Parker (40.82) -- Santa Fe Christian (46), Bishop's (48)

 

[SDMama]

Girls side (note that there are three games in which both sides claim wins in the calculations, Del Norte's games against Westview, San Marcos, and La Costa Canyon. Those games are especially significant since Westview and Del Norte are #1 and #2 in the Power Rankings as they stand on the Section website)

Looks like they updated the power rankings to include the DNHS forfeits as losses. They dropped to 9th. Ouch.

Seems like if they really want the power rankings to reflect the relative strength of teams, they would keep the actual scores and not calculate the forfeits as losses (especially if CIF decided to reverse the decision disqualifying that player and she will play post season).

It’s bad enough they’ll lose home field advantage. It would really suck if they dropped out of Open division play.

 

[espola]

Looks like they updated the power rankings to include the DNHS forfeits as losses. They dropped to 9th. Ouch.

Seems like if they really want the power rankings to reflect the relative strength of teams, they would keep the actual scores and not calculate the forfeits as losses (especially if CIF decided to reverse the decision disqualifying that player and she will play post season).

It’s bad enough they’ll lose home field advantage. It would really suck if they dropped out of Open division play.

Their games this week are against San Marcos and La Costa Canyon, so maybe they will bea ble to fight their way back into the top 8.

 

[SDMama]

Some analysis on the boys side -- the only teams worth 50 points as an opponent in the Power Rankings calculations are San Pasqual, San Dieguito Academy, Eastlake, and Poway.

The last week's games --

Current top 8 --
San Dieguito Academy (46.41) -- San Pasqual (50), Rancho Bernardo (48)
San Pasqual (46.05)-- San Dieguito Academy (50), Del Norte (46)
Eastlake (45.74) -- Southwest (SD) (48), Sweetwater (48)
St. Augustine (45.71) -- University City (48), Cathedral (46)
Del Norte (45.38) -- Carlsbad (46), San Pasqual (50)
Poway (44.94) -- Westview (48), Canyon Crest (46)
Torrey Pines (44.8) -- Rancho Bernardo (48), Carlsbad (46)
Sweetwater (44.77) -- Mongomery (45), Eastlake (50)

9-20 --
Rancho Bernardo (44.62) -- Torrey Pines (48), San Dieguito Academy (50)
Cathedral (44.38) -- Coronado (48), St. Augustine (48)
Southwest (SD) (44.25) -- Eastlake (50), Mongomery (45)
Point Loma (44.06) -- Coronado (48), University City (48)
Westview (43.81) -- Poway (50), Fallbrook (47)
University City (43.74) -- St. Augustine (48), Point Loma (48)
Coronado (43.69) -- Point Loma (48)
Calexico (43.62) -- Brwley (47), Holtville (43)
Carlsbad (43.56) --Del Norte (48), Torrey Pines (48)
Canyon Crest (42.8) -- Oceanside (45), Poway (50)
Escondido (42.4) -- Fallbrook (47), Oceanside (45)
Francis Parker (40.82) -- Santa Fe Christian (46), Bishop's (48)

If a team worth 50 points loses enough games to push its win% below 75%, then do all the results change? Or are the points locked in based on the teams’ records at the time of the game?

example - Poway is at 12-3-3, 75%. If they lose their next game, do all the results for all of their previous opponents get adjusted?

 

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Looks like they updated the power rankings to include the DNHS forfeits as losses. They dropped to 9th. Ouch.

Seems like if they really want the power rankings to reflect the relative strength of teams, they would keep the actual

If a team worth 50 points loses enough games to push its win% below 75%, then do all the results change? Or are the points locked in based on the teams’ records at the time of the game?

example - Poway is at 12-3-3, 75%. If they lose their next game, do all the results for all of their previous opponents get adjusted?

From what I've seen in my DD's points, it does change when the teams record changes and moves them into a new percentage level on the chart. I've seen the points from earlier in the season change on Ties we had earlier in the season. One score went up, one went down.

 

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This really sucks for the Del Norte players that did things right. I also think the rule of no contact with other organizations while playing HS is an ignorant rule. But it is a clearly established rule, and breaking it (getting caught) has consequences. If the coaching staff/athletic director didn’t explain the teams expectations and rules to the players at the beginning of the season, it was negligence of the athletics department at the school. Negligence carries consequences as well. It sucks for the players at Del Norte.
You can't turn a blind eye to it, or make a special exception, because so many players in the San Diego Section were faced with the same dilemma. Play for the HS team, or attend an Event somewhere near the colleges they are looking at (Eastcoast has a lot going on during Dec/Jan). Many players waited until half the HS season was over before they joined a contest, because they had Club Events in mid December. Others skipped the events and decided to play HS. The Highschool Athletic Department knows these dilemmas occur with players every year. If the player didn't truly know they were doing something wrong, it's the Coaches fault; if the player knew and is claiming ignorance that sucks for the coaches. Either way the consequences for the school and team are justified; it really sucks for all the other players at DN.

 

[espola]

If a team worth 50 points loses enough games to push its win% below 75%, then do all the results change? Or are the points locked in based on the teams’ records at the time of the game?

example - Poway is at 12-3-3, 75%. If they lose their next game, do all the results for all of their previous opponents get adjusted?

Yes.

 

[espola]

From what I've seen in my DD's points, it does change when the teams record changes and moves them into a new percentage level on the chart. I've seen the points from earlier in the season change on Ties we had earlier in the season. One score went up, one went down.

The Power Rankings are similar in intent to the NCAA RPI calculations, but with some differences. Awarding more points for opponents in the higher divisions tends to conserve the calculations from past years' performances, whereas the NCAA treats all opponents (200+ in both men and momen soccer) as essentially equal and just ignores contests against other opponents (D2, D3, or NAIA). I also don't think that the PR calculations are sophisticated enough to remove the impact of the game being measured (if you play a team that is right at 75% and beat them, that lowers their strength in the calculation, even though they are still at 75% against other opponents). There is also no Opponents Strength of Schedule factor.

 

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The Power Rankings are similar in intent to the NCAA RPI calculations, but with some differences. Awarding more points for opponents in the higher divisions tends to conserve the calculations from past years' performances, whereas the NCAA treats all opponents (200+ in both men and momen soccer) as essentially equal and just ignores contests against other opponents (D2, D3, or NAIA). I also don't think that the PR calculations are sophisticated enough to remove the impact of the game being measured (if you play a team that is right at 75% and beat them, that lowers their strength in the calculation, even though they are still at 75% against other opponents). There is also no Opponents Strength of Schedule factor.

I have seen the points allocated in our PR change when teams records change from Level 2 to Level 3 or vise versa throughout the season. The Divisions points are obviously set for the season, but the teams Level is dependant on their win-loss record, the changes in points of early season games have corresponded to the teams change in the Level threshold throughout the season. Many of the teams we have played throughout the season have been moving back and forth across the 50% win-loss threshold throughout the season. So it does appear that it does impact the calculation of all games played during the season. It would not be difficult to to calculate, if they are using Excel, which it appears they do, the win-loss (Level Factor) formula (calculations) are automatic, and would recalculate every time you entered the results from the current weeks games. I'll know for sure at the end of this week. Six of the teams we played this season are teetering on the 50% win-loss mark and most are scheduled to play each other this week, so regardless of which team wins or loses, it's a no win situation for us, unless they all tie each other; three of them we played twice this season, so the results of this week will have a huge impact on the teams PR score. Two of the teams could move above the 75% Level, but not likely.