Vaccine

what-happened said:
Your knack for takeways is astonishing...have you signed up for 2-3 boosters per year? Did the CDC not change their definition. Did they follow the science? Are they following it now? Is Fauci the science? How should we use home tests? Are they accurate? Why are HC workers now allowed to come back to work if their covid symptons are mild? Should they be forced to tell patients under their care they are infected?

Maybe you should ask Tucker. Apparently where you consume your information is lacking, similar to some of the folks on the supreme court.
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What would happen if there were no rhetorical questions?
 
what-happened said:
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Covidian is 100% a cult with members that are now hypnotized. The Witnesses of their sect like Espola and The Husler are the one's that drive me nuts. I'm learning to become a certified, "Cult Exit Deprogrammer." How to leave a cult for good; by EJ, SoccerHelper and the suspended crush. The Covidians are out to get anyone WHO doesn;t agree with their teaching of injections from Wuhan and the mask way of life. Whacko cult members that think their church of eating like shit, like fast food, booze and meat from abused animals is the true and only way to live on earth. They never stop stumping on my right to earn a buck. 100% kicked me out of the game of money and power. I was born into a cult and joined another one later in college. The last one was more loving but came with conditions. If you come to church and give at least 10%, you will be loved unconditionally. It took "pay to have friends' to a a whole crazy that I tested and with my true test, I saw church what it was. A place to make friends but you better give up Sunday for The Lord and give all your time and extra cash flow back to the man at the church. I read the bible every day for 30 years + 3= 33 years of hard core bible. The stories in the bible are wonderful and I mean that. I read it now at a whole different level.
 
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Walensky says Sotomayor's pediatric COVID hospitalization number was off dramatically
The Supreme Court justice claimed there are more than 100,000 children in 'serious condition' from COVID-19
 
Wow oh wow, I love me some Geraldo now. Great job bro for eating some humble pie. Thanks for being a man and owning up to when your wrong. Thanks Geraldo, I mean that 100%. I love you man :)

Geraldo Rivera Eats “Humble Pie,” Apologizes to Unvaccinated After He Catches COVID

Geraldo: I thought for sure I was immune for getting all the jabs

Geraldo: I was very hard on the unvaccinated.

Geraldo: As the data suggests, it's time I eat some humble pie in that regard because I was 100% wrong......blah and more blah and frankly I'm just embarrassed at myself. I sorry to EJ as well. I was wrong!!! Please everyone, just admit you were wrong and change and just do right.

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what-happened said:
Is sars-cov-2 the measles/mumps.... prevention/immunity to.....
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In equating immunity with prevention it is important to spell out prevention of what. Immunity comprises both short term prevention to infection as well as long term prevention of severe disease consequences. Either as a convalescent or a vaxxed invidual the short term component is on the order of 4 month to a year, and has to do with circulating antibodies titers that can vary considerably from individual to individual. The long term memory component of immunity involves a separate (but related) set of immune cell populations. In some cases this component of immunity memory can last a lifetime.

In this sense there are many parallels between omicron (with omicron perhaps more accurately called cov-3) and measles. Measles is one of the most, if not the most, infectious viruses in humans. In terms of its R number, omicron is either right behind measles or running neck in neck. It's mind blowing. Childhood vaccination against measles has two public health objectives. First, to prevent outbreaks. Second, and perhaps more importantly given the increased severity of measles in adults, vaccination induces that long lasting immune memory component. Especially if Cov-2 and its related offspring increasingly fall under selective pressure to circumvent short-term immunity, vaccination won't do much to temper community transmission. It may be a long time before we are in a position to talk about outbreaks, and who knows what flavor of C-virus we will be dealing with. But the data appears pretty strong that vaxx, particularly after the clean up on aisle 5 that attends infection, induces an extremely diverse set of long term immune memory cell populations that recognize molecular surfaces of Ace2 in a variety of conformations. That data has been linked on this thread. It can be linked again if anybody cares, which i doubt.

I think people should do what they want. But the argument for vaxxing kids as i see it parallels the situation with measles closely. the future is obviously unknowable, but it seems pretty reasonable to think at this point that the next generation will be dealing with periodically re-emergent forms of this virus for the rest of their lives. Their kids may bring it home from school to them. And each time it pops out of the woodworks who knows what it will look like. But, given what we do know, there is a choice that can hopefully give their long term immunity the broadest possible arsenal going forward.
 
what-happened said:
You left out the part where she says "and many on ventilators".

And we wonder why so many have tuned out gubment. At least we know she's not consuming her news via fox.
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I saw a pic of her chowing down on a nice meal after work with no mask with a few of her pals. I dont know when the pic was and I sure don;t want her after me. I respect her as judge and 1/7 of the jury. She was appointed by former President Obama. I just 100% disagree with her about fetus being brain dead and then this about the vax and the kids. This is going to be an epic week.
 
what-happened said:
Yea, that's what I said. No one is arguing they've been useful in minimzing deaths and hospitalizations..but good try.

They do not stop transmission. The risk benefit (which is what the CDC is supposed to weigh) isn' the same across the board. The quest for mandates falls apart once the vaccines didn't do what they were marketed to do.

If you are high risk, get vaccinated. Should parents be mandated to vaccinate their healthy children.....Is sars-cov-2 the measles/mumps?

If you are vaccinated and boosted...let it go already..you've done your part, nice job. We went from prevention/immunity to.....well, you know the story, you follow the jello narrative.
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I am against government mandates, but private businesses are free to decide who gets access, right?
 
Do you know the codes? This is getting very interesting.

AOC tests positive for COVID-19 after partying in Miami maskless
The positive test comes shortly after the congresswoman was seen without a mask in a Miami bar, according to video that circulated on social media

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EvilGoalie 21 said:
In equating immunity with prevention it is important to spell out prevention of what. Immunity comprises both short term prevention to infection as well as long term prevention of severe disease consequences. Either as a convalescent or a vaxxed invidual the short term component is on the order of 4 month to a year, and has to do with circulating antibodies titers that can vary considerably from individual to individual. The long term memory component of immunity involves a separate (but related) set of immune cell populations. In some cases this component of immunity memory can last a lifetime.

In this sense there are many parallels between omicron (with omicron perhaps more accurately called cov-3) and measles. Measles is one of the most, if not the most, infectious viruses in humans. In terms of its R number, omicron is either right behind measles or running neck in neck. It's mind blowing. Childhood vaccination against measles has two public health objectives. First, to prevent outbreaks. Second, and perhaps more importantly given the increased severity of measles in adults, vaccination induces that long lasting immune memory component. Especially if Cov-2 and its related offspring increasingly fall under selective pressure to circumvent short-term immunity, vaccination won't do much to temper community transmission. It may be a long time before we are in a position to talk about outbreaks, and who knows what flavor of C-virus we will be dealing with. But the data appears pretty strong that vaxx, particularly after the clean up on aisle 5 that attends infection, induces an extremely diverse set of long term immune memory cell populations that recognize molecular surfaces of Ace2 in a variety of conformations. That data has been linked on this thread. It can be linked again if anybody cares, which i doubt.

I think people should do what they want. But the argument for vaxxing kids as i see it parallels the situation with measles closely. the future is obviously unknowable, but it seems pretty reasonable to think at this point that the next generation will be dealing with periodically re-emergent forms of this virus for the rest of their lives. Their kids may bring it home from school to them. And each time it pops out of the woodworks who knows what it will look like. But, given what we do know, there is a choice that can hopefully give their long term immunity the broadest possible arsenal going forward.
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They can get the same protection through natural immune exposure though, which for them carries very little risk. All of them, vaxxed and unvaxxed, will be exposed to it at some point. Further there doesn’t appear to be a whole lot of benefit to boosting them.

you also seem to suggest that it’s a doomsday scenario that they’ll be repeatedly exposed to this virus including by their kids. You’re a parent right? We all go through this. There is nothing special about this coronavirus (unless you are somehow suggesting it has been engineered to by a doomsday weapon constantly mutating into bad forms). There are 4 other freely circulating corona viruses. There’s the flu. There’s rsv which hospitalized more kids ever year than the corona virus. Then there’s the adeno and enters viruses. I’ve come close to being killed not just by covid but by a simple rhino virus that developed into a drug resistant sinus infection. The most disgusting illness I’ve ever had was an adeno virus which not only gave me a respiratory infection but secondary bronchitis, pink eye and intestinal problems. It’s part of the human condition.Unless you somehow believe this thing was made to be different, it will join the long line of illness that periodically goes Darwin on our species every year. Part of what made this so horrible, like small pox to the Inca or measles to the Hawaiians, was that it was Novel to our immune systems.
 
EvilGoalie 21 said:
In equating immunity with prevention it is important to spell out prevention of what. Immunity comprises both short term prevention to infection as well as long term prevention of severe disease consequences. Either as a convalescent or a vaxxed invidual the short term component is on the order of 4 month to a year, and has to do with circulating antibodies titers that can vary considerably from individual to individual. The long term memory component of immunity involves a separate (but related) set of immune cell populations. In some cases this component of immunity memory can last a lifetime.

In this sense there are many parallels between omicron (with omicron perhaps more accurately called cov-3) and measles. Measles is one of the most, if not the most, infectious viruses in humans. In terms of its R number, omicron is either right behind measles or running neck in neck. It's mind blowing. Childhood vaccination against measles has two public health objectives. First, to prevent outbreaks. Second, and perhaps more importantly given the increased severity of measles in adults, vaccination induces that long lasting immune memory component. Especially if Cov-2 and its related offspring increasingly fall under selective pressure to circumvent short-term immunity, vaccination won't do much to temper community transmission. It may be a long time before we are in a position to talk about outbreaks, and who knows what flavor of C-virus we will be dealing with. But the data appears pretty strong that vaxx, particularly after the clean up on aisle 5 that attends infection, induces an extremely diverse set of long term immune memory cell populations that recognize molecular surfaces of Ace2 in a variety of conformations. That data has been linked on this thread. It can be linked again if anybody cares, which i doubt.

I think people should do what they want. But the argument for vaxxing kids as i see it parallels the situation with measles closely. the future is obviously unknowable, but it seems pretty reasonable to think at this point that the next generation will be dealing with periodically re-emergent forms of this virus for the rest of their lives. Their kids may bring it home from school to them. And each time it pops out of the woodworks who knows what it will look like. But, given what we do know, there is a choice that can hopefully give their long term immunity the broadest possible arsenal going forward.
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The argument for vaxxing kids is always dicussed in terms of risk/benefit. It's why the committees are taking their time with the U5s. Transmission comparisons between omicron and the measles are fair. Factor of 18 vs factor of 15 is pretty dang close and makes omicron very, very contagious.

I don't have to tell you the difference in outcomes between untreated measles and omicron for U5s. Unless omicron takes a hard left and presents in a more deadly manner, vaxxing based on transmissability for a variant that sidesteps immunity may not be the right thing to do.
There are going to continue to be millions of people in this country and around the world that will not ever be vaccinated. Variants will likely continue to spin for the foreseable future. By the way, 140K people died in 2018 of the measles, mostly U5s.

As you said, what the future holds, no one really knows.
 
Hüsker Dü said:
I am against government mandates, but private businesses are free to decide who gets access, right?
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Private business are free to do what they want. They will eventually succumb/make decisions based on business requirements. The labor market is already strained. The market will take care of those business. Vaccines obviously aren't preventing people from going home sick. Keep an eye on hospitals - hiring back nurses previously let go will likley be the first move, especially when vaccinated workers are still missing work. Can't you see the tide slowly turning?

We've gone from immunity/prevention to reducing hospitalization/disease to a variant that makes you sick for 5 days. What good are mandates if it doesn't keep people from going home? Besides, we have these really cool N95s that healthcare workers wear all day... isn't that good for something?
 
espola said:
In some cases, incentives are more effective than mandates.

nordot.app

Vaccine appointments multiply after Quebec requires shots for weed, alcohol stores ｜ New York Daily News

They’re going shots for shots. First-dose vaccine appointments quadrupled in Quebec after the Canadian province required vaccine passports to buy alcohol and marijuana. Quebec announced the new rules Thursday, when there were an average of 1,500 first dose appointments, the Montreal Gazette...
nordot.app nordot.app
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Messing with fire if you take away this type of access to canadians this time of the year.. Thoughtful incentives would likely have a high degree of success in this country.
 
what-happened said:
Messing with fire if you take away this type of access to canadians this time of the year.. Thoughtful incentives would likely have a high degree of success in this country.
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Restricting access to pork would be problem --

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Grace T. said:
They can get the same protection through natural immune exposure though, which for them carries very little risk. All of them, vaxxed and unvaxxed, will be exposed to it at some point. Further there doesn’t appear to be a whole lot of benefit to boosting them.
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Vaxx has been demonstrated to provide extremely broad conformational coverage to S in terms of immune memory. The relevant data has been discussed here. So, given the current state of data, the potential alterations to S that may arise in future variants are better offset through vaxx . There is also data that Infection, followed by vaxx, maybe a particularly robust long term memory combination. This may be because the germinal centers that are established through infection allow the long term T and B cell populations to proliferate a few more times before becoming quiescent. The reason for writing this is because, if a parent is thinking about vaxx for their kid, and they get omicron, which almost everybody will, it is the perfect time given what we know. If people don't like that idea, think it is stupid, whatever, then don't do it.

Grace T. said:
you also seem to suggest that it’s a doomsday scenario that they’ll be repeatedly exposed to this virus including by their kids.
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No. Doomsday is all the wailing and gnashing of teeth surrounding policy. People said all the same stuff in 1918, just the political poles were reversed. They were wrong then and they are wrong now. I believe it was you talking about lessons learned. Anyway, a better term for what is going on with these emergent C-viruses is koyannisqatsi. Gven the zoonotic populations of C-virus that are being established around the globe the rate at which descendents of this virus will re-emerge in novel recombined forms will likely increase. SARS, MERS, Cov-2 and now possibly Cov-3 within the span of several decades. Looking forward 50 years there will be more.

Grace T. said:
There is nothing special about this coronavirus (unless you are somehow suggesting it has been engineered to by a doomsday weapon constantly mutating into bad forms).
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The fact that new variants arise and can be selected for has nothing to do with its origin. If it came from a lab or from bats or pangolins or whatever that would still be true. There are many unique features about this c-virus. Having posted about it as much as you do I'm a bit surprised. The way in which it activates S has novel features, which is really the only thing that could have been conceivably engineered. The flexibility in terms of pathway choice for how it enters cells is much more sophisticated than what we saw with SARs or MERs, part of which probably contributes to cell fusigenic properties underlying the pathogenesis of COVID19. And the replicative potential of omicron is unprecedented for a c-virus, which remains to be figured out.

Grace T. said:
There are 4 other freely circulating corona viruses. There’s the flu. There’s rsv which hospitalized more kids ever year than the corona virus. Then there’s the adeno and enters viruses. I’ve come close to being killed not just by covid but by a simple rhino virus that developed into a drug resistant sinus infection. The most disgusting illness I’ve ever had was an adeno virus which not only gave me a respiratory infection but secondary bronchitis, pink eye and intestinal problems. It’s part of the human condition.Unless you somehow believe this thing was made to be different, it will join the long line of illness that periodically goes Darwin on our species every year. Part of what made this so horrible, like small pox to the Inca or measles to the Hawaiians, was that it was Novel to our immune systems.
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Not sure what your point is. Of course we were immunologically naieve to this virus; it was emergent. That's pretty obvious. I think what you are saying is that this virus will turn into another evolutionarily stable common cold C-virus. Reasonably steady state and seasonal. We will balance with it and it will balance with us. That is of course to be expected as the pandemic winds down; case load under that steady state will be an important factor. What I'm speaking to is novel variants emerging from resevoirs 5, 10, 20, 50 years down the line. The properties and virulence of those emergent strains are impossible to predict. But as long as such emergent viruses remain Ace2 directed, as of right now vaccination appears to provide the broadest long term immunological insurance policy.
 
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