Vaccine

kickingandscreaming said:
You are missing the point. It would have been as easy initially to make the distinction between being hospitalized with COVID or being hospitalized because of COVID. Why now? This isn't how trust is built but that ship has likely already sailed.
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Trust has certainly left the station. COVID designation also = $$$$. $13K per per person admitted with covid, $39K per ventilator. Now, likley not a ton of money was made (contrast that to the $$$ being poured down the pharma drain). This could have easily caused the disease to appear deadlier than it actually is/was. And yes, it's still a tragedy, but numbers mean something and painting it on the high side is not good.
 
what-happened said:
Trust has certainly left the station. COVID designation also = $$$$. $13K per per person admitted with covid, $39K per ventilator. Now, likley not a ton of money was made (contrast that to the $$$ being poured down the pharma drain). This could have easily caused the disease to appear deadlier than it actually is/was. And yes, it's still a tragedy, but numbers mean something and painting it on the high side is not good.
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Hospitals are required to keep patients with covid isolated from the general population, and additional PPE is required for those attending such patients. That means extra costs.
 
Grace T. said:
As usual, you miss the point that your attack on Desert Hound made no sense in light of my high-class education credentials (s plural). It places you in the bind of having inadvertently given Hound a compliment (at least from an elitist credentialist point of view) or saying such credentialism doesn't/shouldn't matter. Quite a little box you built for yourself.
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And Aaron Rodgers has 2 years of education from Cal. Sometimes you just can't tell how an alumnus is going to work out.
 
espola said:
Hospitals are required to keep patients with covid isolated from the general population, and additional PPE is required for those attending such patients. That means extra costs.
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Yes, you are 100% correct. It costs more to treat a covid patient. Don't think that hospitals didn't take advantage of the system. Hospitalists also run P&Ls. This was an easy one to take advantage of, and they did. Like I stated above, not a ton of money made but painted a picture that was likely innacurate but narrative approved.
 
dad4 said:
It's almost as though there is some kind of difference between today's covid and the original covid.

You know, like maybe one version has a lower case spike and more severe symptoms.

But the other had a very high case spike but relatively mild symptoms.

If that were true, the later version would create enough mildly symptomatic cases to mess with the data, even though the first did not.

The really should look into that. Maybe give each version it's own name so dumbfucks don't get them confused.
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Hard to argue with that . . . but then again, some must persist.
 
espola said:
And Aaron Rodgers has 2 years of education from Cal. Sometimes you just can't tell how an alumnus is going to work out.
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Weak...your answer to the box is an anecdote (which you don't tend to like) and a weak one, 2 years football player who didn't even finish.
 
what-happened said:
Yes, you are 100% correct. It costs more to treat a covid patient. Don't think that hospitals didn't take advantage of the system. Hospitalists also run P&Ls. This was an easy one to take advantage of, and they did. Like I stated above, not a ton of money made but painted a picture that was likely innacurate but narrative approved.
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“Hospitalists”?
 
Grace T. said:
A better argument than there's no with/for problem would have been if you had argued yes there's been an over count, and yes this was a problem, but that over count was skewed differently in previous waves. For example, one SF ER doc whose tweets I follow currently estimates about 60% of admits are with COVID and 40% are for....in previous waves he estimated 50/50....original wild type during lockdowns 70% for/30% with (which would make sense because in lockdown hospitals were turning away non emergency cases). But just like the cloth masks, you can't help letting in just a little bit of daylight for fear it will tumble down the entire edifice of faith. You are like my religion teacher that I wrote about who lost it on the "if God created adam and eve, and Caine and Abel married, where did their wives come from" question.
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We already had this discussion. There are instances of overcount, and there are instances of undercount. But there was not any reason to believe that the net result was a large overcount. If anything, the net result is most likely to have been an undercount, as evidenced by the uptick in overall deaths per capita.

That was a lot of irrelevant ad-hominem religion comments. You wasted almost half of your words on it.
 
dad4 said:
We already had this discussion. There are instances of overcount, and there are instances of undercount. But there was not any reason to believe that the net result was a large overcount. If anything, the net result is most likely to have been an undercount, as evidenced by the uptick in overall deaths per capita.

That was a lot of irrelevant ad-hominem religion comments. You wasted almost half of your words on it.
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1. The overcount excess death has been largely explained at this point. The NYT article on children for example and the opioids as well as medical events that went untreated. I'm sure there is some overcount in deaths, but it's skewed towards the beginning of the pandemic, when testing wasn't as readily available.
2. That has nothing to do though with the hospitalization overcount which is all overcount.
3. We've already had the discussion re ad-hominems. Per the test espola set out, they aren't ads as they don't go to your character, only the nature of your arguments. Therefore they have his blessing.
4. As the king of the subtle insults, your hypocrisy is showing.
 
Grace T. said:
1. The overcount excess death has been largely explained at this point. The NYT article on children for example and the opioids as well as medical events that went untreated. I'm sure there is some overcount in deaths, but it's skewed towards the beginning of the pandemic, when testing wasn't as readily available.
2. That has nothing to do though with the hospitalization overcount which is all overcount.
3. We've already had the discussion re ad-hominems. Per the test espola set out, they aren't ads as they don't go to your character, only the nature of your arguments. Therefore they have his blessing.
4. As the king of the subtle insults, your hypocrisy is showing.
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Girls are killing themselves 51% more then before Covid.
 
dad4 said:
Credentials can be overrated. You don’t want to rely on someone who repeatedly brings up her grades and test scores from 3 decades ago.
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Hey I'll take it! Next time you make an appeal to expertise I'll be sure to throw "credential can be overrated" right back at you!

p.s. I'm loving this box that espola built. My entire schtick is that credentialism is overrated. Not only do I have espola but I have you agreeing!
 
espola said:
I guess if you make up a word you get to define it as well.
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cre·den·tial·ism
/krəˈden(t)SHəˌlizəm/

noun

  1. belief in or reliance on academic or other formal qualifications as the best measure of a person's intelligence or ability to do a particular job.
    "credentialism is to a large degree responsible for people assuming that they need a degree"
 
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