Vaccine

dad4 said:
To me, masking up and getting vaccinated are not about being noble. Masking up and getting vaccinated are the bare minimum for not being an asshole.
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Bill Gates finally realises that lockdown hurts children A major advocate for social distancing is having second thoughts


Other bleak predictions from UNICEF’s March 2020 report are now becoming visible. A UNICEF report back in January found that more than 39 billion in-school meals have been missed globally since the start of the Covid-19. A July report in South Africa’s Business Day found that half a million fewer children were in school than a year before. A World Bank study found that Covid-19 school lockdowns had increased dropouts across the board in Nigeria, especially in the 15-18 age group, increasing child marriage and child labour rates dramatically. And these impacts are not limited to poor countries — a recent study found that in the US, poor and minority children were much less likely to have had in-person lessons last year.
 
dad4 said:
To me, masking up and getting vaccinated are not about being noble. Masking up and getting vaccinated are the bare minimum for not being an asshole.
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When the strictest lockdown to date was imposed in Ho Chi Minh City, Tran Thi Hao*, a factory worker, was told that the government would keep her and her family well fed – but for two months they have eaten little more than rice and fish sauce.

https://www.theguardian.com/global-...ut-lockdown-leaves-vietnams-poor-without-food
 
dad4 said:
To me, masking up and getting vaccinated are not about being noble. Masking up and getting vaccinated are the bare minimum for not being an asshole.
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In this whole period, we reverted to premodern thinking and practices. Intelligent, charming, wonderful societies like Australia and New Zealand have become prison states. Countries that hung in the balance have become full dictatorships. Countries that gave birth to civilization itself have dabbled in the barbarism we associate with the ancient world. There’s a lot of talk about science these days but what has happened to us belongs to a pre-scientific age – and that is precisely what the New York Times urged on February 27, 2020, when its leading virus reporters demanded that we “go full Medieval” to address Covid-19.
 
Grace T. said:
I agree with you the US should going forward have a PPE subsidy for manufacturers going forward. You and I agreed that it would have been a good idea to do that at the start. At the current time, though, price equilibrium has not been reached (not at $80) and the masks aren't readily available to everyone that wants one (only the well off willing to pay a premium for them).

But again you don't get to build the world you wish existed...you can only behave in reaction to this world. You are courteous (you wouldn't go out sick), you are vaccinated, you are tested. You are very low risk to infect others through asymptomatic spread. The N95s right now primarily serve the function of protecting you...the studies you cite say surgicals are good to protecting others...one more N95 mask out there doesn't do a whole lot to protect a supermarket, especially someone who is as courteous as you. What it does do it drives the price up for people that actually need them.

When you can go out and buy a 40 pack of N95s for $20 on Amazon through a large retailer (instead of a hoarder) like I did prepandemic, have at it. Otherwise you are just being selfish when others need those more. Should you be able to get one including a US manufacturer? Yes, I agree you should, but we aren't in that world.
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Of course I get to help build the world I wish existed. Which other world would I help build?

If you are busy building a world you don’t want to live in, think about it. Why would you do that?
 
dad4 said:
Of course I get to help build the world I wish existed. Which other world would I help build?

If you are busy building a world you don’t want to live in, think about it. Why would you do that?
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I assume this means you think everyone should wear an N95 mask in an indoor situation? If so, I've moved you a little bit at least so now we are on the same page of what works and what doesn't.
 
Grace T. said:
While I think congress would have the arguable right to do this under the ICC, I'm truly curious what the legal basis of this executive order is. If the President is capable of doing this, there really is no limit to his executive order power.
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It is a problem. We have been going in this direction some time.

There is a reason we have separation of powers. We did not create our system to have the Prez just make laws/mandates like this.
 
Desert Hound said:
Seems to me I was going around just a day or so ago with someone else here who was saying there is no full press on vaccine mandates.

My how things change in 48 hours.

Bueller? Bueller...would you like to pop your head up again and revisit our talk?
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I've been seeing the legal rationales go through my twitter feed. It's beyond my admin law expertise. 1) it really though is a broader reach than anyone has ever applied to EO powers, healthcare or otherwise, 2) the courts have become skeptical of these overreaches (whether by Trump or Biden), and 3) the antilockdowners all seem to be willing to bet large sums of cash it doesn't survive judicial review. Whether it does or not would require a deep dive on my part way beyond the current time I have...
 
Ha ha....I just thought of this too....the larger soccer clubs around the nation will have their employees caught by Biden's vaccine mandate too.
 
N00B said:
That’s only one part of the Six Point plan Biden is speaking about shortly. Guess I’ll have to wait a hour or so for the other five.

"Some of that will be related to access to testing, some will be related to mandates, some will be related to how we ensure kids are protected in schools."
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One of them is the boosters (which he got in front the FDA on and caused those resignations). Question: Will we be required to take the boosters even if we come down ill with COVID post vaccination per the employers over 100 rule?

Another one is testing kids in schools (rumored to be for both vaxxed and unvaxxed)....that's a more a school closure mandate than a school open plan since kids will come down with cases causing quarantines as we are already seeing in some parts of the country.

Another rumor is the mandate for kids over 16 in schools but this rumor isn't very credible so far.
 
Grace T. said:
I've been seeing the legal rationales go through my twitter feed. It's beyond my admin law expertise. 1) it really though is a broader reach than anyone has ever applied to EO powers, healthcare or otherwise, 2) the courts have become skeptical of these overreaches (whether by Trump or Biden), and 3) the antilockdowners all seem to be willing to bet large sums of cash it doesn't survive judicial review. Whether it does or not would require a deep dive on my part way beyond the current time I have...
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Well...there goes the first lawsuit already....Daily Wire (the Ben Shapiro company IIRC).
 
Grace T. said:
Well...there goes the first lawsuit already....Daily Wire (the Ben Shapiro company IIRC).
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They obviously can't file it until the rule is promolgated but they've vowed to file on day 1 and are already gearing up counsel.

The other big headache will be for manufacturers. White collar workers are a lot less fungible....it's harder to move positions and a physical move is sometimes required and there's large support for vaccines anyway. Big union jobs like auto plans and schools are harder because a lot of the employers are captured by the same rules. But low tech manufacturing jobs will be a problem...expect to exacerbate the labor shortage esp. since these workers are right in the target of the vaccine uptake issue.
 
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