Key phrase here.
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- Thread starter PruritusAniFC
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Key phrase here.
That's a proper way to view it but to think there will not be physical contact and body positioning to gain advantage is foolish. Soccer is a physical sport, not just from the waist down.
The key to this being a foul is the last part " when the ball is not within playing distance of either player"
How many times do you see a defender wall screen a ball rolling over the end line or rolling back to their keeper?
Lacey's example was what to do when the ball gets past you. His suggestion was to block the progress of the player.
I am picturing the moment when the ball is 3 feet behind the defender. No problem with a quick pivot to get there first. The sideways step and arm bar while facing the wrong way? Hard to see that as an attempt to play the ball.
Fine line for defenders and requires maturity and body control. Soccer is physical but it's not random violence, that's the beauty of it. You are not trying to knock the ball from the player, you are trying to move the ball away from the player or take the ball. The defender is not a free safety.
Anything perceived as not playing the ball will be called. Ulittles especially don't have the body control, for the most part.
I'd suggest you watch some Sergio Ramos defending clips or any good defensive clips of high level soccer particularly when they get beat initially.
If you watch top soccer you will note European style soccer differs from US in that they play with the ball more underneath their body rather then out front. This is really noticeable in tight spaces like working inside the box. Makes defending more difficult to in order to try and play the ball without to much contact to result in a foul but enough contact to get the player off his rhythm at that moment.
Before the pandemic I was having my kid do private training with a experienced coach who specializes in European style soccer play ball movement. If you watch Press play on the WNT you will see her style shows it.
Ramos is a good defender but one of the dirtiest players in La Liga. Take a peek at Virgil van Dijk from liverpool. Maybe the best CB on the planet
True on both sides of the ball. Seen plenty of clean shoulder barges where the player on the receiving end flops or disproportionately falls off balance... sidelines calling for a foul based on contact and the ‘look’ of the players response. Ref swallowing the whistle being the right call, but parents outraged none-the-less.
Do the sidelines mature along with the players as they age and progress? Haven’t experienced it yet, but I’m hopeful.
Glitterhater
SILVER ELITE
Going back to being physical, IMO there is nothing good about a player who is intentionally dirty or agressive just because that's all they have going for them.
My DD has been described as a "finesse" player- not the most physical player on the field at all, but good with her feet. She had an old teammate, (yes-teammate,) with definite anger issues. When my DD would fake her out and get around her, she'd go for the ankles every time- not the ball, the ankle. In a game, this player and the opposing team's forward got tangled up and fell down-as she was coming down, she "hooked" the other girl in the back with her cleat, simply because the girl had consistently beaten her. She was physical solely for the lack of other skills- dangerous anyway you slice it.
My DD has been described as a "finesse" player- not the most physical player on the field at all, but good with her feet. She had an old teammate, (yes-teammate,) with definite anger issues. When my DD would fake her out and get around her, she'd go for the ankles every time- not the ball, the ankle. In a game, this player and the opposing team's forward got tangled up and fell down-as she was coming down, she "hooked" the other girl in the back with her cleat, simply because the girl had consistently beaten her. She was physical solely for the lack of other skills- dangerous anyway you slice it.
Nope, not at all. Just do what I do, stay well off to the side. The ONLY upside to masks is that I have a more valid reason to NOT talk to people and sideline outbursts are somewhat muted.
Yes he does push the limit. Virgil excellent also and plays up top on corners and other free kick set plays.
I think so, I've gotten way quieter over the years...lol
The term your looking for is “Tactical Foul”.
Desert Hound
DA
Yes. Parents mellow.
A tactical foul is something you typically see in the midfield area. If a player gets a fast break a defender may grab him or a jersey and intentionally take a foul to stop a fast break or a 2v1 or something.
So why not just give the yellow (promising attack) or the red (goal scoring opportunity? (depending on location of other players and distance to goal.)
We have no problem stopping the game for very questionable handballs. Why do we treat deliberate fouls as less important than ball to arm situations in the box?
ITFC Blues
SILVER
I couldn't have imagined this would become such an argument. I know I didn't start the initial bit, but in my response I was advocating for using your body to defend, more like using the body to push the forward out wide, putting your hand on their back and being right up on them but positioned well enough to not get beat by a move. Another example is using your body to hold position on set pieces. I used the counter example of Giroud because he is big and physical and it's hard to move him off the ball. He won't beat you with trickery very often, but he will beat you by being physical and holding a defender off to either lay the ball off or release the shot. In older ages and adult soccer there is a lot of contact and a lot of physical play. You have to have the temperament to deal with all of the pushing and jostling or else you lose it and get yellow and red cards. A good defender will figure out if a player doesn't have the right temperament and will tactically jostle them around to get them more worried about them than playing the game.
As I said, tactical fouls typically happen in the midfield area and generally are not the dangerous play type that get carded but you are right intentional and or dangerous play fouls fouls in or near the 18 do often receive cards because they are taking away a true scoring opportunity. Hand balls has to be an intentional movement where the arm is not in a natural position. It is subjective during the fluidity of play and the viewing angle of the ref. We have all seen them called unnecessarily and also completely missed by the ref. Guess we need VAR and 4th ref at all the kids games now. Oh wait, there are no games really.
Scott m Shurson
SILVER ELITE
You typically do earn a yellow on something like that. I've often felt like they weren't worth a card... especially when they occur as a fledgling counter attack in the defensive 3rd.
As a defender you want to force them to try and beat you outside. The sideline is your friend. Your stance should be bladed with your chest facing out towards the sideline as you are backing and waiting for the offensive movement. All the other stuff you posted about body positioning I agree with. Giroud is a post up player center forward. I agree with your description. Everyone should remember for our kids playing " you dont have to be great at everything but you have to be great at something " to really stand out on the pitch and college observers. I dont think Ronaldo is a very good passer or even 1v1 dribble but he certainly is great at getting advantage position and finishing plays in the net.
No doubt Ronaldo isn't a good passer, never was, never will be, didn't need to. At his prime, arguably one of the hardest 1 v 1 players to defend. Great dribbling skills and almost impossible to move off the ball. Also hard to defend in the air - has/had crazy NBA hops.
Defending really comes down to denying or closing space, whether it's inside or outside.