ECNL vs. DA turf war has created a 'toxic environment'

Dummy said:
Seem unfair to treat players that attend private schools differently from how players that attend public schools are treated. Maybe there is something I am missing?
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I was wondering about the use of the term "waiver" - I have read in the DA rules that players that attend private schools that require soccer (or some other sport) to satisfy extracurricular requirements will be allowed to play HS. I did not recall it being expressed as a "waiver" so was wondering if there was some other mechanism to which the commenter was referring.
 
MarkM said:
Why do you think the scales have turned toward ECNL? I'm not disputing it, but I'm curious why that is so definitive. It seems like a mixed bag and I don't see a lot of clubs dropping DA if they don't do it by this year. I thought Blues and Real Colorado would have dropped, but that didn't happen. Especially if you live in SoCal, I don't really see it. The clubs at the bottom of both leagues aren't great. And the only good ECNL club pre-DA was Slammers. Eagles is back, but they were a disaster before DA when their most prominent coach was arrested. At least the top clubs in DA SoCal conference are legit.
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Outside of SoCal and Texas, most of the top clubs have moved to ECNL. However, it's fairly split in SoCal as well. I would say that's a move towards ECNL. Honestly, like most folks on this forum, I would love it if there was one league with the best players playing each other. My DD wants to be a pro, be on the NT and take soccer that farthest she can. Unfortunately, she's gonna have to wait til college because she plays on an ECNL team and will be overlooked until then.
 
Mullet said:
When the best selling point of a league is that for 4 months out of 10 you don't have to play in the league what is the point? That out of 4 months your kid gets to train in HS or play something other than HS I fail to understand the point of paying 3K a year plus travel to have a HS coach train my kid for 3-4 months.
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Some of those high school coaches are also highly-regarded club coaches.
 
oh canada said:
choice, control, diversity, long-term focus, etc. - i am willing to pay the same, or more, for those
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But you're paying more for less AND paying for anything extra on top of it.

What is so long term focus about 1/3 of the season spent away from the club coach and the higher level club players and training for HS?
 
espola said:
Some of those high school coaches are also highly-regarded club coaches.
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But the season is so compressed and the focus is so heavily geared towards results that development is simply thrown out the window. You might as well just join track for all the soccer development will come out of playing HS.
 
Mullet said:
But the season is so compressed and the focus is so heavily geared towards results that development is simply thrown out the window. You might as well just join track for all the soccer development will come out of playing HS.
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You need a better high school.
 
espola said:
You need a better high school.
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A better school will make the HS season longer?

A better school will make all the other crappy HS teams better?

A better school will get those 3-4 months of lost club training back that I paid for?

Can ECNL also market the better school as part of their "All In" campaign?
 
Mullet said:
A better school will make the HS season longer?

A better school will make all the other crappy HS teams better?

A better school will get those 3-4 months of lost club training back that I paid for?

Can ECNL also market the better school as part of their "All In" campaign?
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A better high school might have better coaches and a better multi-year program to develop uncertain Freshmen players into killer Seniors.
 
espola said:
A better high school might have better coaches and a better multi-year program to develop uncertain Freshmen players into killer Seniors.
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How does a 4 month season develop any player into a killer senior?

And how does being a killer senior in the spring season help with recruiting?
 
Mullet said:
How does a 4 month season develop any player into a killer senior?

And how does being a killer senior in the spring season help with recruiting?
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I actually saw some local college coaches at our high school games (of course, that was many years ago). When I went to talk with one of them about our players (I was running the HS team's webpage before they switched to MaxPreps) he already knew as much about them as I did.
 
dk_b said:
Can you explain the waiver? Genuinely curious.
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Being a good soccer player can help you get admitted to a private HS. DA recognizes that and is accommodating to that group of people. However, if it's for social reasons then it's a big fat No!!!
 
timbuck said:
Not sure what part of OC you are from. But the south oc schools have about 50 freshman at their summer camp/leagues. (At least on the girls side)
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South brah. We have big numbers too. However, they're not DA players coming out. That's not a knock on the girls coming out. They play ECNL or SCDSL because some play Volleyball and track and or other things. Their good players. We have a great program.
 
espola said:
I actually saw some local college coaches at our high school games (of course, that was many years ago). When I went to talk with one of them about our players (I was running the HS team's webpage before they switched to MaxPreps) he already knew as much about them as I did.
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It is certainly possible that local college coaches will go to a HS game to watch a particular kid. The problem is the coach is always going to walk away wondering how the player would look with and against better players. If you are playing in ECNL and HS you had better be All Met or All State at HS.

Now, if collegiate ambitions are modest to non-existent then have at it. It is fun and all of the many other non-soccer/intangible benefits but otherwise leave it till perhaps junior and senior year for the experience.
 
Ellejustus said:
Being a good soccer player can help you get admitted to a private HS. DA recognizes that and is accommodating to that group of people. However, if it's for social reasons then it's a big fat No!!!
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Has anyone who applied for the waiver ever been denied?
 
Mullet said:
It is certainly possible that local college coaches will go to a HS game to watch a particular kid. The problem is the coach is always going to walk away wondering how the player would look with and against better players. If you are playing in ECNL and HS you had better be All Met or All State at HS.

Now, if collegiate ambitions are modest to non-existent then have at it. It is fun and all of the many other non-soccer/intangible benefits but otherwise leave it till perhaps junior and senior year for the experience.
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If you are a HS Senior and have your college commitment all sewn up and have not been invited to any National Youth Camps, why would you go through the aggravation and added costs of DA?
 
espola said:
If you are a HS Senior and have your college commitment all sewn up and have not been invited to any National Youth Camps, why would you go through the aggravation and added costs of DA?
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True but ECNL isn't cheaper than DA and ECNL is really only 6 months versus 10 months of DA.

And if you are already committed then whether you play HS or not is really a conversation between the player and the college coach.
 
How about a waiver for the fee of high school soccer. Some schools aren't cheap for that limited time even summer camp or whatever that was cost money. Maybe the best thing to do during the club break of high school season is actually take a break for once.
 
espola said:
Has anyone who applied for the waiver ever been denied?
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I still want to hear more about this "waiver" - as I noted, the DA policies are express that HS is permitted where a kid is obligated to play sports to satisfy extracurricular requirements. Hard for me to believe without seeing the actual that a kid who as on athletic scholarship to HS would be addressed by DA rules. In areas where there is open enrollment among public schools, some kids make decisions based on sports or debate or music. If DA is permitting a waiver b/c kids went to a private schools for sports reasons, it would be opening itself up to a different levels of criticism and allegations of elitism. For all I know (and based on what @Ellejustus is saying, I certainly don't know), such a waiver does exist and DA/US Soccer could care little about criticism. But I'd want to see it.
 
dk_b said:
I still want to hear more about this "waiver" - as I noted, the DA policies are express that HS is permitted where a kid is obligated to play sports to satisfy extracurricular requirements. Hard for me to believe without seeing the actual that a kid who as on athletic scholarship to HS would be addressed by DA rules. In areas where there is open enrollment among public schools, some kids make decisions based on sports or debate or music. If DA is permitting a waiver b/c kids went to a private schools for sports reasons, it would be opening itself up to a different levels of criticism and allegations of elitism. For all I know (and based on what @Ellejustus is saying, I certainly don't know), such a waiver does exist and DA/US Soccer could care little about criticism. But I'd want to see it.
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The waiver issue has been a point of criticism since DA was founded, and especially since they started enforcing the no-HS rule for boys a couple of years after that. Most of those private schools already have an "elite" reputation to uphold. The DA waiver is consistent with that.
 
dk_b said:
I still want to hear more about this "waiver" - as I noted, the DA policies are express that HS is permitted where a kid is obligated to play sports to satisfy extracurricular requirements. Hard for me to believe without seeing the actual that a kid who as on athletic scholarship to HS would be addressed by DA rules. In areas where there is open enrollment among public schools, some kids make decisions based on sports or debate or music. If DA is permitting a waiver b/c kids went to a private schools for sports reasons, it would be opening itself up to a different levels of criticism and allegations of elitism. For all I know (and based on what @Ellejustus is saying, I certainly don't know), such a waiver does exist and DA/US Soccer could care little about criticism. But I'd want to see it.
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Joke's on me, it turns out. From what I can tell, the 2018-19 season permitted HS participation for two reasons - the extracurricular requirement that I noted AND the "admitted to private school for soccer" requirement that @Ellejustus mentioned (I say, "from what I can tell" b/c this is from excerpts I found that are posted elsewhere; the actual waiver language may differ but I can't find the primary source for 2018-19). I found the wavier for 2019-20 and it has been modified: ONLY the "admitted for soccer" remains. What an f'in joke. Poor kid who does not have access to those types of schools (and don't assume that just because something like that exists in your area, it exists elsewhere). Poor kid who may go into a private school on a needs-based scholarship and really wants to represent her school but is told "no" by US Soccer. It really bugs the crap out of me that the choice is taken from the players and families.
 
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