ECNL vs. DA turf war has created a 'toxic environment'

[oh canada]

my angle is a bit broader -- ECNL superior because it allows for more freedom, leaving more power to the player and families. Organized practice 3x/week instead of 4 (those wanting more are free to do so on their own). Opportunity to play HS soccer if you like. If you don't want to play HS, then your player can fully participate in another winter sport (SoCal) without having to worry about missing club soccer practice; OR have a few months away from soccer to focus on academics, music/arts, or other activities. No ban on futsal throughout the year (I've heard some DA clubs are frowning/banning futsal).

This flexibility/freedom should translate into healthier/happier players both now and in the future.--college, pro, etc.

And last, ECNL defers the identifying of "talent" to the appropriate ages of 15+ by college coaches over the course of a couple years, not a US Scout (usually one local guy watching a few videos) prematurely at 13yrs.

The only reason I can see for playing DA is if ECNL is not offered in the area (not the case in SoCal), or the chance of playing for a youth national team (however remote) is sooo important to a player (more likely the parent) that they are willing to sacrifice all the tangible benefits mentioned above.

 

[Dos Equis]

Along the lines of college recruiting I did some checking. Using TopDrawer as a source, the 2022 class has 102 players committed so far. I expected that there would be more ECNL players committed since there are more ECNL teams, but that isn’t the case. The results:
55 play for DA
37 play for ECNL
10 play for neither/other

Of those, the following % are committed to NCAA top 15 ranked programs:
DA 45%
ECNL 32%
Neither/other 10%

This is early data and a small sample as only 102 2022’s committed prior to the May 1 rule change, but it does confirm what I see through my lens. The talent is split between DA and ECNL but tilted towards DA for U15/U16. It will be interesting to check again in a couple years and see if the ratio holds.

Keep checking, I agree it will indeed be interesting, but nothing more.

I did not mention league for a reason -- I said getting a measure of the team and the coach (and a player's effort as well). I have yet to find a top college coach that emphasized league in our conversations.

 

[vegasguy]

Nah. HS is a shit show. My kid has seen it and doesn’t want near it.

Is there a reason you want ECNL to go away?

 

[Ellejustus]

Along the lines of college recruiting I did some checking. Using TopDrawer as a source, the 2022 class has 102 players committed so far. I expected that there would be more ECNL players committed since there are more ECNL teams, but that isn’t the case. The results:
55 play for DA
37 play for ECNL
10 play for neither/other

Of those, the following % are committed to NCAA top 15 ranked programs:
DA 45%
ECNL 32%
Neither/other 10%

This is early data and a small sample as only 102 2022’s committed prior to the May 1 rule change, but it does confirm what I see through my lens. The talent is split between DA and ECNL but tilted towards DA for U15/U16. It will be interesting to check again in a couple years and see if the ratio holds.

Of the 102, 80 of th

Along the lines of college recruiting I did some checking. Using TopDrawer as a source, the 2022 class has 102 players committed so far. I expected that there would be more ECNL players committed since there are more ECNL teams, but that isn’t the case. The results:
55 play for DA
37 play for ECNL
10 play for neither/other

Of those, the following % are committed to NCAA top 15 ranked programs:
DA 45%
ECNL 32%
Neither/other 10%

This is early data and a small sample as only 102 2022’s committed prior to the May 1 rule change, but it does confirm what I see through my lens. The talent is split between DA and ECNL but tilted towards DA for U15/U16. It will be interesting to check again in a couple years and see if the ratio holds.

The other stat is only 20 of those girls will actually attend the school they committed to in 8th or 9th grade.

 

[Josep]

Is there a reason you want ECNL to go away?

Who said I want ECNL to go away? There’s so much whining about HS and DA forbidding it. Most girls who play DA don’t care. It’s the parents who have some sort of myopic nostalgia for it.

For kids who want HS and a high level of soccer, there’s ECNL. It’s actually a pretty good set of choices between the DA and ECNL. If you’re in SoCal you have great options.

ECNL is a fine program for girls. We have a lot of friends playing ECNL. My kid played ECNL. ECNL kids get into college. If my kid was hell bent on playing HS, they’d stick with ECNL. I don’t want to see it go away.

But I don’t see the need to change DA. It is what it is for people who want that program. Kids accept no HS and 4 practices a week.

I’d guess that a majority of the kids in DA don’t care about HS soccer and the the ECNL kids don’t really care about not playing DA.

You’ve essentially got the AL vs NL. One has DH (HS) and one doesn’t. Otherwise it’s 90 min games on the same size fields with coaches attending both of their bigger events.

 

[dk_b]

Who said I want ECNL to go away? There’s so much whining about HS and DA forbidding it. Most girls who play DA don’t care. It’s the parents who have some sort of myopic nostalgia for it.

For kids who want HS and a high level of soccer, there’s ECNL. It’s actually a pretty good set of choices between the DA and ECNL. If you’re in SoCal you have great options.

ECNL is a fine program for girls. We have a lot of friends playing ECNL. My kid played ECNL. ECNL kids get into college. If my kid was hell bent on playing HS, they’d stick with ECNL. I don’t want to see it go away.

But I don’t see the need to change DA. It is what it is for people who want that program. Kids accept no HS and 4 practices a week.

I’d guess that a majority of the kids in DA don’t care about HS soccer and the the ECNL kids don’t really care about not playing DA.

You’ve essentially got the AL vs NL. One has DH (HS) and one doesn’t. Otherwise it’s 90 min games on the same size fields with coaches attending both of their bigger events.

This is only anecdotal but, in NorCal, I'd guess that if GDA permitted HS play, the GDA clubs would get much stronger OR clubs like Mustang and MVLA would become GDA clubs (at least one of those was on the initial GDA list only to decline in large part b/c HS is so big where it is located). One of the strongest 2017-2018 GDA teams (01 Quakes) lost a number of key players (one becoming National HS POY) at the winter break this past season b/c they wanted to play HS in their senior year. There is nothing to suggest that a majority of the younger players would not do the same if they had that option.

(and as a NL guy, I'd say that the one with the DH is GDA since that is the one that restricts like the AL restricts pitchers from hitting (yes, I know. The rules allow pitchers to hit and the DH is "optional"))

 

[Soccer43]

Who said I want ECNL to go away? There’s so much whining about HS and DA forbidding it. Most girls who play DA don’t care. It’s the parents who have some sort of myopic nostalgia for it.

For kids who want HS and a high level of soccer, there’s ECNL. It’s actually a pretty good set of choices between the DA and ECNL. If you’re in SoCal you have great options.

ECNL is a fine program for girls. We have a lot of friends playing ECNL. My kid played ECNL. ECNL kids get into college. If my kid was hell bent on playing HS, they’d stick with ECNL. I don’t want to see it go away.

But I don’t see the need to change DA. It is what it is for people who want that program. Kids accept no HS and 4 practices a week.

I’d guess that a majority of the kids in DA don’t care about HS soccer and the the ECNL kids don’t really care about not playing DA.

You’ve essentially got the AL vs NL. One has DH (HS) and one doesn’t. Otherwise it’s 90 min games on the same size fields with coaches attending both of their bigger events.

I agree with much of what you are saying. Except, much of what is reported on this forum is personal opinion and anecdotal experiences. The only way to know for sure that kids in DA don't care about high school would be to do an actual survey. The same for ECNL kids not caring about playing DA. I think the decisions are more complex than this and I do see players feeling pressured and manipulated. I wouldn't say that across the board everyone is happy with the current status and would venture to say that most would prefer one league where the best could play against the best rather than the tired debate of ECNL vs DA.

 

[vegasguy]

Fair.. it just seemed blunt.
My thought is that high school gives club players the opportunity to play with players who they often play against and to play with a sense of community pride that club in any form really doesn't provide. My player described it as it is my World Cup playing to get to a State Championship since there are older kids and different clubs fighting for the same thing. There is club pride here but not like high school there is a difference. You say it is parent nostalgia and I think the players who play may have a differing opinion. If US Soccer wants to be non-inclusive that is fine it is on them and those that want that because their child may be in the 1% then that is good for them and those that don't will seek other options. It is a silly battle in the long run and won't make US Soccer better.

 

[Josep]

I agree with much of what you are saying. Except, much of what is reported on this forum is personal opinion and anecdotal experiences. The only way to know for sure that kids in DA don't care about high school would be to do an actual survey. The same for ECNL kids not caring about playing DA. I think the decisions are more complex than this and I do see players feeling pressured and manipulated. I wouldn't say that across the board everyone is happy with the current status and would venture to say that most would prefer one league where the best could play against the best rather than the tired debate of ECNL vs DA.

My kid plays DA and we have friends on DA at every club in OC. They have reported to me, because we talk about our kids’ happiness - I know shocking in the dog eat dog world we all live in - and the sentiment is that the girls are comfortable workouts DA. I have known kids who played HS for a year and left for DA. They made a choice. I do not know a kid who left DA To play Hs. I’m sure it happened.

Just my experience and conversations.

 

[vegasguy]

It goes both ways. DA kids leave DA to play high school. Boy's Gatorade Player of the Year left Atlanta United to play HS. ECNL players leave because they want to try the pathway to YNT. The thing is both are good leagues (and emphasis on leagues) with quality players and coaches and also poor players and coaches are in those leagues too. US SOCCER is where my issue lies in their opinion from high saying this is the only place national team players are made. That is tunnel visioned at best.

 

[Ellejustus]

My kid plays DA and we have friends on DA at every club in OC. They have reported to me, because we talk about our kids’ happiness - I know shocking in the dog eat dog world we all live in - and the sentiment is that the girls are comfortable workouts DA. I have known kids who played HS for a year and left for DA. They made a choice. I do not know a kid who left DA To play Hs. I’m sure it happened.

Just my experience and conversations.

The top league in OC for HS Soccer is the Trinity League. Waivers for DA players so it's a non issue. I will say for the 04' age group in OC very few kids walked away from DA. High school soccer is not super popular at most schools in OC. I know why but I'll leave that to myself....

 

[Mullet]

When the best selling point of a league is that for 4 months out of 10 you don't have to play in the league what is the point? That out of 4 months your kid gets to train in HS or play something other than HS I fail to understand the point of paying 3K a year plus travel to have a HS coach train my kid for 3-4 months.

 

[dk_b]

The top league in OC for HS Soccer is the Trinity League. Waivers for DA players so it's a non issue. I will say for the 04' age group in OC very few kids walked away from DA. High school soccer is not super popular at most schools in OC. I know why but I'll leave that to myself....

Can you explain the waiver? Genuinely curious.

 

[timbuck]

The top league in OC for HS Soccer is the Trinity League. Waivers for DA players so it's a non issue. I will say for the 04' age group in OC very few kids walked away from DA. High school soccer is not super popular at most schools in OC. I know why but I'll leave that to myself....

Not sure what part of OC you are from. But the south oc schools have about 50 freshman at their summer camp/leagues. (At least on the girls side)

 

[espola]

The top league in OC for HS Soccer is the Trinity League. Waivers for DA players so it's a non issue. I will say for the 04' age group in OC very few kids walked away from DA. High school soccer is not super popular at most schools in OC. I know why but I'll leave that to myself....

Don't be like that. Tell us why.

 

[espola]

Can you explain the waiver? Genuinely curious.

Students at private schools can still play HS, since not playing may have an effect on their admission and/or tuition rate.

 

[whatithink]

Students at private schools can still play HS, since not playing may have an effect on their admission and/or tuition rate.

I thought the stipulation was that if a kid is getting a scholarship to a private school based on soccer, then they can play. If they are just attending or getting a financial break but not for soccer, then the restriction applies. The school has to provide docs to substantiate the waiver.

Could be wrong though

 

[espola]

I thought the stipulation was that if a kid is getting a scholarship to a private school based on soccer, then they can play. If they are just attending or getting a financial break but not for soccer, then the restriction applies. The school has to provide docs to substantiate the waiver.

Could be wrong though

I have also been told that the private schools in So Cal don't give athletic scholarships, but I know from personal experience (and from inadvertent admissions by student-athletes or their parents that didn't know they were supposed to be quiet) that accommodations can be made in some cases.

 

[Dummy]

Students at private schools can still play HS, since not playing may have an effect on their admission and/or tuition rate.

Seem unfair to treat players that attend private schools differently from how players that attend public schools are treated. Maybe there is something I am missing?

 

[oh canada]

When the best selling point of a league is that for 4 months out of 10 you don't have to play in the league what is the point? That out of 4 months your kid gets to train in HS or play something other than HS I fail to understand the point of paying 3K a year plus travel to have a HS coach train my kid for 3-4 months.

choice, control, diversity, long-term focus, etc. - i am willing to pay the same, or more, for those

 

[espola]

Seem unfair to treat players that attend private schools differently from how players that attend public schools are treated. Maybe there is something I am missing?

Only the best players go to private schools? The players at private schools are more likely to have lawyers for parents? The possible explanations are endless.