Referees - what can we all do to improve the situation?

[Surfref]

Witnessed 4 games in League Cup today. 3 parents ejected, 1 assistant coach ejected and a coach almost ejected (after screaming at the CR in Spanish including some obscenities...just got a warning). I stepped up in the game after my son's game as an AR because the AR did not show up...did it as a volunteer...still got BS from the sideline. Both CRs were really fantastic and managed to control the games which were wildly physically spinning out of control and through no malice of any of the players (no dirty play for the sake of dirty play).

Having seen it this bad now, I have to agree that the coach's set the tone and there's no excuse for the behavior. 1) still think we need mandatory continuing education including a mandatory module on behavior/ethics, and 2) a no tolerance policy if the coaches misbehave.

I never understood why referees are required to yearly complete online training, concussion training and 5 to 8 hours of referee training a year, and coaches have no yearly requirement. I would think that coaches should at least be required to yearly complete concussion training, LOTG training, ethics training and some coaching training. Some coaches get their E License (or whatever it is called now), do their initial concussion training and never go through any further coaching training. Other coaches like my daughter work for clubs that do coaches training quarterly and push the coaches to move to the next higher license level. I think part of the problem is that D-C coach training is not offered often enough.

 

[baldref]

Witnessed 4 games in League Cup today. 3 parents ejected, 1 assistant coach ejected and a coach almost ejected (after screaming at the CR in Spanish including some obscenities...just got a warning). I stepped up in the game after my son's game as an AR because the AR did not show up...did it as a volunteer...still got BS from the sideline. Both CRs were really fantastic and managed to control the games which were wildly physically spinning out of control and through no malice of any of the players (no dirty play for the sake of dirty play).

Having seen it this bad now, I have to agree that the coach's set the tone and there's no excuse for the behavior. 1) still think we need mandatory continuing education including a mandatory module on behavior/ethics, and 2) a no tolerance policy if the coaches misbehave.

Coaches set the tone. If the coach is a douche, the parents and players follow suit.
Gotta remove them
Even if it means the game is over

 

[LASTMAN14]

What would the correct procedure be, if he did tell her to remove the earrings and she did, but then put them back on when she walked away. Would this be cause to issue a yellow?

Sure. Dissent law 12.

 

[Paul Spacey]

Coaches set the tone. If the coach is a douche, the parents and players follow suit.
Gotta remove them
Even if it means the game is over

Spot on. I try to set a good example and thankfully we have good kids and parents so our sidelines (and behavior on the field) are generally good but on the odd occasion that I overstep the mark and get carried away, you can bet that the kids (and parents) usually follow suit. Absolutely no question that the coach sets the tone.

I still believe an across-the-board rating system (for parents, coaches, players and refs) would be helpful, as long as there are clear sanctions for those who step out of line. Whether we will see that in the next year or so is debatable.

 

[Surfref]

I had a coach yelling at me last Sunday. When I went to politely ask him to not yell at me and my ARs he said, “Do you know who I am?” I did know who he was and calmly replied, “yes, you are the coach that will be sitting in his car if you yell at any referee again.” I turned and walked away and he did not yell at us anymore. I am sure he has said that same line to a new or youth referee to try and intimidate them. When his parents yelled at my AR, all I had to do was look at him and he told them to shut up. I guess their motto applies, “You’ll never walk alone” to your car when you get kicked out.

 

[LASTMAN14]

I had a coach yelling at me last Sunday. When I went to politely ask him to not yell at me and my ARs he said, “Do you know who I am?” I did know who he was and calmly replied, “yes, you are the coach that will be sitting in his car if you yell at any referee again.” I turned and walked away and he did not yell at us anymore. I am sure he has said that same line to a new or youth referee to try and intimidate them. When his parents yelled at my AR, all I had to do was look at him and he told them to shut up. I guess their motto applies, “You’ll never walk alone” to your car when you get kicked out.

After my men's game this morning the CR came to me and asked that I speak to one of our players about his comments about a call made just before the game ended. The CR said next time he would have to communicate with the division coordinator. I said he already had and it would be much more of the same. But I would warn him...

 

[coachrefparent]

I had a coach yelling at me last Sunday. When I went to politely ask him to not yell at me and my ARs he said, “Do you know who I am?” I did know who he was and calmly replied, “yes, you are the coach that will be sitting in his car if you yell at any referee again.” I turned and walked away and he did not yell at us anymore. I am sure he has said that same line to a new or youth referee to try and intimidate them. When his parents yelled at my AR, all I had to do was look at him and he told them to shut up. I guess their motto applies, “You’ll never walk alone” to your car when you get kicked out.

Who was he?

 

[Surfref]

Spot on. I try to set a good example and thankfully we have good kids and parents so our sidelines (and behavior on the field) are generally good but on the odd occasion that I overstep the mark and get carried away, you can bet that the kids (and parents) usually follow suit. Absolutely no question that the coach sets the tone.

I still believe an across-the-board rating system (for parents, coaches, players and refs) would be helpful, as long as there are clear sanctions for those who step out of line. Whether we will see that in the next year or so is debatable.

Who will do the ratings? Is the league going to supply some unbiased person to evaluate every game? I just don’t see how you will get an unbiased input or any input. Most refs don’t really care who wins or loses and probably don’t care enough to fill out some rating form unless it is just a 1-10 ranking.

 

[MijoPlumber]

Coaches set the tone. If the coach is a douche, the parents and players follow suit.
Gotta remove them
Even if it means the game is over

You are right Mijo! It’s the coaches that set the tone and should control bad behavior on the field and sideline.

 

[timbuck]

If we are going to rate refs, we should also allow refs and coaches to rate coaches.
There are some complete assholes out there.

 

[MijoPlumber]

Witnessed 4 games in League Cup today. 3 parents ejected, 1 assistant coach ejected and a coach almost ejected (after screaming at the CR in Spanish including some obscenities...just got a warning). I stepped up in the game after my son's game as an AR because the AR did not show up...did it as a volunteer...still got BS from the sideline. Both CRs were really fantastic and managed to control the games which were wildly physically spinning out of control and through no malice of any of the players (no dirty play for the sake of dirty play).

Having seen it this bad now, I have to agree that the coach's set the tone and there's no excuse for the behavior. 1) still think we need mandatory continuing education including a mandatory module on behavior/ethics, and 2) a no tolerance policy if the coaches misbehave.

Mija, Sênior Hefe Presidente or DOC at the club should be setting the rules for his coaches. When no rules or don’t care the coach is just like independent contract mafia capi and their Wise Guy boss DOCs do not care. Sone don’t seem answer to anyone and really don’t care. They really have no one watching them. They say and do whatever they want with no consequences.

 

[Surfref]

Who was he?

Not someone that should be saying “do you know who I am?” He is just another youth club coach and no one of importance except in his own mind.

 

[timbuck]

Did he have an accent?
Or play at a d2 school in 1991 on a full ride?

 

[Grace T.]

If we are going to rate refs, we should also allow refs and coaches to rate coaches.
There are some complete assholes out there.

This would be relatively easy to do really. Just use the Uber system (Uber rates both drivers and riders) where you numerically rate the behavior of the coach and the performance of the referee leaving room for comments. Since we can't have evaluators watching the coaches and refs for every game, you just program an algorithm to pick up certain patterns (I've done something like this for my work in other fields)...enough strikes and you send someone to blind check evaluate it...if they find something the coordinators have a discussion with the coach/ref (referring either for additional continuing education or giving them the option of going on suspension)...additional followup and blind checks on those identified to be "problems" as well as a loss of eligibility to move up in the rankings (either ref level or ABCD coaching license) and suspensions for repeat offenders.

The big objection to this is it might make a referee shortage even more severe but I don't really buy it...if refs don't want to do it because of the abuse there are 2 solutions if you look at this from an economics point of view: lower the obstacles by making refereeing a more pleasant experience and pay them more....keeping refs that don't want to be evaluated because they might not be great is just turning away from the problem and we can always exempt the new 8s if we are shy about scaring off the new recruits.

After this weekend I'm really sold on this idea. Time to do it.

 

[Paul Spacey]

Who will do the ratings? Is the league going to supply some unbiased person to evaluate every game? I just don’t see how you will get an unbiased input or any input. Most refs don’t really care who wins or loses and probably don’t care enough to fill out some rating form unless it is just a 1-10 ranking.

You will never get totally unbiased input. But any input is good input when averaged out over time.

Enough ratings will allow the cream to rise to the top and the crap to fall to the bottom. The poorest of everyone/everything will be exposed (including coaches, parents/sidelines and referees). Something has to be done and this seems like a potential step in the right direction. Will it be the ‘solution’ to what we know is a massive problem? No, there isn’t a single solution because the problem is too big. However, any step in the right direction is a good step IMO.

 

[MA0812]

We video tape every game. We have captured some awful game deciding calls and some incredibly dirty/dangerous play by "a certain team" (two separate things). From my experience, NOBODY cares about your video unless it is elevated to an extremely high level on both sides. Even with all this concussion training that they make parents/kids take before you can play in the gaming circuit, when it comes down to kids actually getting concussions and going to emergency rooms -> THEY STILL DON'T CARE (They = Cal South, CSL). With the concussion training THEY are only just checking a box for liability purposes. Keep video taping but keep in mind that nobody (I mean nobody) will give a sh-- about the bad call(s) that you taped.

Late to this thread but I couldn't agree more. Had video of a horrible incident at a G04 Discovery game. League rep at the field and head ref both said we wont look at any video so don't bother showing us or sending it. That option is out.

 

[Just A Dad]

a few weeks back my daughter had a CR who made a horrible decision that made the rest of the game miserable for himself. The goalie on my daughters team took out a player. CR came over to the AR and asked if it was in the box our out of the box. The AR said it was outside the box so the CR sets the ball outside the box and the other coach and parents go crazy. After the complaining he changes it to a foul inside the box and moves the ball then are coach yells you can change your mind because the coach is yelling. The CR goes back to the AR and ask again if it was inside or outside the box and the AR says outside the box so the CR moves the ball again outside the box. The rest of the game the other coach was going crazy till the other AR (oldest of the 3) yelled at the coach to shut up and told the CR to card him. The CR had done a good job besides caving to the coaches on the one call and I personally thought are goalie should have been given a red or yellow card but I think he might have just missed seeing the foul and thats why he wasnt confident in his decision.

last weekend he was the AR in my daughters game and one of our players was taken down in the box the CR said no foul. I agreed with the no call but the girl laid on the ground like most forwards do when they are trying to get a call. I looked at the AR and said bet your glad your not the CR this game and he looks at me and laughs and starts telling me how bad he messed up the last time he reffed are game and he lost control.

 

[Surfref]

Did he have an accent?
Or play at a d2 school in 1991 on a full ride?

No accent and I have no clue if he played in college.

 

[Surfref]

This would be relatively easy to do really. Just use the Uber system (Uber rates both drivers and riders) where you numerically rate the behavior of the coach and the performance of the referee leaving room for comments. Since we can't have evaluators watching the coaches and refs for every game, you just program an algorithm to pick up certain patterns (I've done something like this for my work in other fields)...enough strikes and you send someone to blind check evaluate it...if they find something the coordinators have a discussion with the coach/ref (referring either for additional continuing education or giving them the option of going on suspension)...additional followup and blind checks on those identified to be "problems" as well as a loss of eligibility to move up in the rankings (either ref level or ABCD coaching license) and suspensions for repeat offenders.

The big objection to this is it might make a referee shortage even more severe but I don't really buy it...if refs don't want to do it because of the abuse there are 2 solutions if you look at this from an economics point of view: lower the obstacles by making refereeing a more pleasant experience and pay them more....keeping refs that don't want to be evaluated because they might not be great is just turning away from the problem and we can always exempt the new 8s if we are shy about scaring off the new recruits.

After this weekend I'm really sold on this idea. Time to do it.

I like the idea of an uber sort of rating. It would probably be fairly easy to develop an app.

 

[timbuck]

Not sure if the rating system would help, but it would be interesting to see how ratings vary based on whether the team won or lost.

 

[Surfref]

Late to this thread but I couldn't agree more. Had video of a horrible incident at a G04 Discovery game. League rep at the field and head ref both said we wont look at any video so don't bother showing us or sending it. That option is out.

That is part of the problem. If the referee actually screwed up, then the coach should show the video to the head referee. The head referee should provide some education to the referee. Discussing referee problems with the referee association or tournament head referee should be the coach or managers job. Parents need to stay out of it, because it usually just sounds like they are complaining because their kids team lost. I have heard parents say some comical things while complaining, throwing elbows, foot on the line during a throw in, goal kick not taken within 6 seconds, etc...