U 17 Women's World Cup

bruinblue14 said:
Outskilled
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I don't know if out skilled is the right word, you could take all these players and put them in Japan system and they would probably do pretty well. Given the right mindset and possession style play Japan is going to be at the top of women's soccer. They came close to beating our senior team in Olympic qualifying with the same style they showed here. So out skilled, no outcoached definitely yes.
 
chondrichthyes said:
I don't know if out skilled is the right word, you could take all these players and put them in Japan system and they would probably do pretty well. Given the right mindset and possession style play Japan is going to be at the top of women's soccer. They came close to beating our senior team in Olympic qualifying with the same style they showed here. So out skilled, no outcoached definitely yes.
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Totally disagree. Its more than technical ability, its a mentality and a philosophy. It is not a "me" mentality it is an "us" mentality. I don't think we get that here in the US. The 1v1 is encouraged and celebrated here in the US. We had a teammate of my daughter's from college over to the house and watched a Barca game. She is from England. She said she never really watches Barca. Right off the bat she made the comment that "they almost never try to beat players 1v1 one. They are always looking for teammates to combine with and beat players using less energy." She is right. They have some of the best players in the world on that team. If its good enough for them why not anyone else? That is not taught here on a whole. Also the system is not as simple as it looks. Everyone thinks they play possession cause they move it along the back. Big deal. Do they continue through the midfield? Finally the deal breaker that separates the posers from the real thing. Can they break a team down with possession in the final third? Most cannot so they resort to what they know best. Look at the world class professional players that come from different clubs to Barcelona and it takes them at least a year to year and a half to fit in yet those players from La Masia that move up to the 1st team seem to have less trouble. They have been in the system. Why do I keep harping Barca? If you talk possession they are the benchmark. Japan has been implementing the Barca system for the last decade. They have delegations constantly at Barca. That is how they believe the game should be played. That is how Spain plays, the Germans play it to a degree with their own twist. just a couple of examples. We don't here in the US. We don't have a lot of coaches that believe in it and further don't have a clue how to teach it. Just go spend a weekend at a big tourny and watch the play. Bottom line, all the clubs that these kids play in need to get on board with a philosophy and teach it. That is how they will move forward. Right now we are like Babel, everyone is speaking their own language.
 
pulguita said:
Totally disagree. Its more than technical ability, its a mentality and a philosophy. It is not a "me" mentality it is an "us" mentality. I don't think we get that here in the US. The 1v1 is encouraged and celebrated here in the US. We had a teammate of my daughter's from college over to the house and watched a Barca game. She is from England. She said she never really watches Barca. Right off the bat she made the comment that "they almost never try to beat players 1v1 one. They are always looking for teammates to combine with and beat players using less energy." She is right. They have some of the best players in the world on that team. If its good enough for them why not anyone else? That is not taught here on a whole. Also the system is not as simple as it looks. Everyone thinks they play possession cause they move it along the back. Big deal. Do they continue through the midfield? Finally the deal breaker that separates the posers from the real thing. Can they break a team down with possession in the final third? Most cannot so they resort to what they know best. Look at the world class professional players that come from different clubs to Barcelona and it takes them at least a year to year and a half to fit in yet those players from La Masia that move up to the 1st team seem to have less trouble. They have been in the system. Why do I keep harping Barca? If you talk possession they are the benchmark. Japan has been implementing the Barca system for the last decade. They have delegations constantly at Barca. That is how they believe the game should be played. That is how Spain plays, the Germans play it to a degree with their own twist. just a couple of examples. We don't here in the US. We don't have a lot of coaches that believe in it and further don't have a clue how to teach it. Just go spend a weekend at a big tourny and watch the play. Bottom line, all the clubs that these kids play in need to get on board with a philosophy and teach it. That is how they will move forward. Right now we are like Babel, everyone is speaking their own language.
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The problem lies within the club itself, pulguita. They have no incentive other than short term success.
 
pulguita said:
Totally disagree. Its more than technical ability, its a mentality and a philosophy. It is not a "me" mentality it is an "us" mentality. I don't think we get that here in the US. The 1v1 is encouraged and celebrated here in the US. We had a teammate of my daughter's from college over to the house and watched a Barca game. She is from England. She said she never really watches Barca. Right off the bat she made the comment that "they almost never try to beat players 1v1 one. They are always looking for teammates to combine with and beat players using less energy." She is right. They have some of the best players in the world on that team. If its good enough for them why not anyone else? That is not taught here on a whole. Also the system is not as simple as it looks. Everyone thinks they play possession cause they move it along the back. Big deal. Do they continue through the midfield? Finally the deal breaker that separates the posers from the real thing. Can they break a team down with possession in the final third? Most cannot so they resort to what they know best. Look at the world class professional players that come from different clubs to Barcelona and it takes them at least a year to year and a half to fit in yet those players from La Masia that move up to the 1st team seem to have less trouble. They have been in the system. Why do I keep harping Barca? If you talk possession they are the benchmark. Japan has been implementing the Barca system for the last decade. They have delegations constantly at Barca. That is how they believe the game should be played. That is how Spain plays, the Germans play it to a degree with their own twist. just a couple of examples. We don't here in the US. We don't have a lot of coaches that believe in it and further don't have a clue how to teach it. Just go spend a weekend at a big tourny and watch the play. Bottom line, all the clubs that these kids play in need to get on board with a philosophy and teach it. That is how they will move forward. Right now we are like Babel, everyone is speaking their own language.
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A true possession philosophy is so hard to teach and takes a long time to develop (aka results in lots of losing). Unfortunately parents here aren't willing to tolerate the losing, especially considering the pay-to-play system. The mentality of parents becomes, "well, i'm paying a heck of a lot of money and the team is losing? This system is sh*t." It takes an extremely patient parent and coach that's willing to stay dedicated to a system like that.
 
God said:
You'd have to find talent to execute such style of play to begin with, bruin blue. That's a whole different monster there. The selected players we have now is not capable of tiki-taka.
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US Soccer's philosophy promotes a very selfish style of play and it's what their scouts look for. If you don't have exceptional foot speed and are not looking to beat players 1v1 (or 1v2), there is a good chance you'll never get invited into a youth national camp. Just look at the style of play of the U17 captain. A product of her environment. The poster child for US Soccer both technically and tactically. Enough said...
 
pulguita said:
Totally disagree. Its more than technical ability, its a mentality and a philosophy. It is not a "me" mentality it is an "us" mentality. I don't think we get that here in the US. The 1v1 is encouraged and celebrated here in the US. We had a teammate of my daughter's from college over to the house and watched a Barca game. She is from England. She said she never really watches Barca. Right off the bat she made the comment that "they almost never try to beat players 1v1 one. They are always looking for teammates to combine with and beat players using less energy." She is right. They have some of the best players in the world on that team. If its good enough for them why not anyone else? That is not taught here on a whole. Also the system is not as simple as it looks. Everyone thinks they play possession cause they move it along the back. Big deal. Do they continue through the midfield? Finally the deal breaker that separates the posers from the real thing. Can they break a team down with possession in the final third? Most cannot so they resort to what they know best. Look at the world class professional players that come from different clubs to Barcelona and it takes them at least a year to year and a half to fit in yet those players from La Masia that move up to the 1st team seem to have less trouble. They have been in the system. Why do I keep harping Barca? If you talk possession they are the benchmark. Japan has been implementing the Barca system for the last decade. They have delegations constantly at Barca. That is how they believe the game should be played. That is how Spain plays, the Germans play it to a degree with their own twist. just a couple of examples. We don't here in the US. We don't have a lot of coaches that believe in it and further don't have a clue how to teach it. Just go spend a weekend at a big tourny and watch the play. Bottom line, all the clubs that these kids play in need to get on board with a philosophy and teach it. That is how they will move forward. Right now we are like Babel, everyone is speaking their own language.
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Great post Pulguita. It seems to me that we would need to implement true residential academies where the promising players attend so they can focus on soccer like La Masia. Does Japan have an academy like La Masia for their elite soccer players? Are other nations (Germany, Norway, Canada, etc.) already doing this?

I watched the USA vs. Japan match the other day and we played a very 1v1 type of game versus Japan playing a team game. If not for Ashley Sanchez, Japan would have won 3-0 or greater.
 
bababooey said:
Great post Pulguita. It seems to me that we would need to implement true residential academies where the promising players attend so they can focus on soccer like La Masia. Does Japan have an academy like La Masia for their elite soccer players? Are other nations (Germany, Norway, Canada, etc.) already doing this?

I watched the USA vs. Japan match the other day and we played a very 1v1 type of game versus Japan playing a team game. If not for Ashley Sanchez, Japan would have won 3-0 or greater.
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A few months ago, when US soccer announced DA, I argued that DA was needed just based on the butchering that I saw of a U20 or U17 US team at Stub Center at the hands of a Japanese team. The US team was completely outclassed, just like we saw a few days ago in this world cup. Some posters replied that there was nothing to worry about, that we have college soccer and that automatically fixes the situation in older teams (sure, just like it has been doing for the US men in the last 70 years). The rest of the world has finally caught with the US when it comes to women soccer.
The physicality and speed of the US player is not a problem, it is a blessing. The problem is that, on average, they are technically not as good. When you have 10 players that are not as comfortable on the ball as the opposite 1o players, it does not matter how many times you ask them to connect passes, it will not happen. But do not fool yourself, if the players are not physical, deaf touch will not take you anywhere at a high level. Everything comes down to good coaching (making sure that the player is comfortable on the ball, making sure that they connect passes) from an early age, and the accumulation of many hours with the ball on your feet.
A residency program, for a country of the size of the US and with the very large number of girls playing the sport, makes little sense. What parent is going to let his/her 10 year old move from LA to Ohio, when there is no need for it and zero economical incentive (no professional game)? There is no need for it because only in SoCal, in each year group, there is a dozen of players that have the potential to be international players, and a few dozens that are not far behind. They can practice locally (at least in SoCal, Texas, NJ/NY). But they need to practice well, that is they need good coaching.
 
I have no idea about Japan, but I would not be surprised if they have a residency program. It is a small country, with a very large fraction of a large population based in and around Tokyo. A residency program makes sense there. But I know Spain very well, and they do not have a residency program for soccer. Actually, Spain is very similar to California in size and population: what they have over there is 20 professional teams playing in the first division, maybe another 20 professional teams playing in second division, and a very large number of semipro teams playing in lower divisions. Most of these teams have their academies for boys. In other words, most kids that play academy in Spain practice locally.
Some of these teams have recently (say in the last 10 years) opened their academies to girl teams. Let's say that there are 20 clubs in Spain that have girl teams, the numbers and the geographic spread is similar to what is going on with top soccer clubs in California. The main difference is that they have a better know how, that is they have a very large number of very good coaches and a long history of training boys.
 
Good coaches are easy to find. Great coaches that are able to train and coach girls/women is a bit more challenging. What the USA lacks is a system of development because everyone wants a piece of the pie (i.e., $$). A girls DA (i.e., limited to two or three academies) for prospective YNT players is a great way to get there. USsoccer should create incentives for parents to have their daughter's play in the system. Once these kids reach the age of majority then these incentives pass to the kids. I think something like the GI bill would work here. Up to 54 months of free room/board, tuition/fees, and a stipend paid out at the end based on months of service. I know I would be happy to pay a yearly small fee to cover the cost of this type of program. I am sure there would be a number of large donors (e.g., corporations, wealthy individuals, etc.) that would also be willing to subsidize such a program.
 
mbeach said:
A few months ago, when US soccer announced DA, I argued that DA was needed just based on the butchering that I saw of a U20 or U17 US team at Stub Center at the hands of a Japanese team. The US team was completely outclassed, just like we saw a few days ago in this world cup. Some posters replied that there was nothing to worry about, that we have college soccer and that automatically fixes the situation in older teams (sure, just like it has been doing for the US men in the last 70 years). The rest of the world has finally caught with the US when it comes to women soccer.
The physicality and speed of the US player is not a problem, it is a blessing. The problem is that, on average, they are technically not as good. When you have 10 players that are not as comfortable on the ball as the opposite 1o players, it does not matter how many times you ask them to connect passes, it will not happen. But do not fool yourself, if the players are not physical, deaf touch will not take you anywhere at a high level. Everything comes down to good coaching (making sure that the player is comfortable on the ball, making sure that they connect passes) from an early age, and the accumulation of many hours with the ball on your feet.
A residency program, for a country of the size of the US and with the very large number of girls playing the sport, makes little sense. What parent is going to let his/her 10 year old move from LA to Ohio, when there is no need for it and zero economical incentive (no professional game)? There is no need for it because only in SoCal, in each year group, there is a dozen of players that have the potential to be international players, and a few dozens that are not far behind. They can practice locally (at least in SoCal, Texas, NJ/NY). But they need to practice well, that is they need good coaching.
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You are posting as if the U17 YNT players have donkey touches. Many on the G99/98 age group thread will be the first to tell you after having their DDs competing against these girls for years. They are just as technical with the ball as the Japanese players are. The issue is the US style of play.....US soccer doesn't play possession soccer and a US Soccer managed Girls DA will be business as usual. Take Ashley Sanchez and Kiara (Kiki) Pickett. Both are the most technical players in the 1999 birth year age group, just as technical as any of the Japanese players. The root of the problem is they were developed to play 1v1, 1v2, etc vs playing a true possession based system like Japan. Where the runs are made before the pass.

If you take a Spanish or Japanese coach they will be able to implement the same style of play with the players who are on the U17 YNT give or take a player.
 
There are a number of players in So Cal that play for different nations besides the US. I got to experience first hand the international game this past summer through my daughter. The international game and representing a country is a tremendous honor and big responsibility. The game itself is taught differently and executed differently at that level depending on the country. There are a number of variables that come into play that's different then anything most club players experience such as two a day trainings 5-6 days a week, diet, being away from home for extended periods, culture change, dealing with the press, and learning different style of play. Some players excel in those environments and are better suited for that style of play then the typical club soccer experience. The US still holds an advantage at the Senior level over most nations and is loaded with talent but other nations have been and are investing more in the women's game and therefore making up ground at the YNT levels. The US has tremendous talent and a huge pool of players to choose from hopefully they figure out how to translate that to higher level of play on the pitch then the typical 1v1 mentality and athleticism. The biggest difference I saw was soccer IQ and team play is paramount to success on that stage not your 40 yard time and height. Countries know that individual brilliance is a part of the game but collective play is the key to tge game.
 
NoGoal said:
You are posting as if the U17 YNT players have donkey touches. Many on the G99/98 age group thread will be the first to tell you after having their DDs competing against these girls for years. They are just as technical with the ball as the Japanese players are. The issue is the US style of play.....US soccer doesn't play possession soccer and a US Soccer managed Girls DA will be business as usual. Take Ashley Sanchez and Kiara (Kiki) Pickett. Both are the most technical players in the 1999 birth year age group, just as technical as any of the Japanese players. The root of the problem is they were developed to play 1v1, 1v2, etc vs playing a true possession based system like Japan. Where the runs are made before the pass.

If you take a Spanish or Japanese coach they will be able to implement the same style of play with the players who are on the U17 YNT give or take a player.
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Not really, I did not say they have donkey touches, I just said that on average they were not technically as good as the Japanese players, which is true.
And if a Japanese coach took those American players, s/he would not be able to make them play right away possession game like Japan does, against Japan. I am sure they would be able to play a good possession game against a Beach FC team of the same age, but not against Japan. For that you would need most YNT American players to be technically as good as the Japanese players, which they are not. It takes many years to develop players that can play like that, it is not as simple as changing a coach once the player is 20 years old.
 
mbeach said:
I have no idea about Japan, but I would not be surprised if they have a residency program. It is a small country, with a very large fraction of a large population based in and around Tokyo. A residency program makes sense there. But I know Spain very well, and they do not have a residency program for soccer. Actually, Spain is very similar to California in size and population: what they have over there is 20 professional teams playing in the first division, maybe another 20 professional teams playing in second division, and a very large number of semipro teams playing in lower divisions. Most of these teams have their academies for boys. In other words, most kids that play academy in Spain practice locally.
Some of these teams have recently (say in the last 10 years) opened their academies to girl teams. Let's say that there are 20 clubs in Spain that have girl teams, the numbers and the geographic spread is similar to what is going on with top soccer clubs in California. The main difference is that they have a better know how, that is they have a very large number of very good coaches and a long history of training boys.
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Spain's population is 40% greater than California FYI.
 
mbeach said:
Not really, I did not say they have donkey touches, I just said that on average they were not technically as good as the Japanese players, which is true.
And if a Japanese coach took those American players, s/he would not be able to make them play right away possession game like Japan does, against Japan. I am sure they would be able to play a good possession game against a Beach FC team of the same age, but not against Japan. For that you would need most YNT American players to be technically as good as the Japanese players, which they are not.
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Like I posted earlier.....you have no idea what you are posting about. Has your DD ever competed against any U17 YNT players in club? If she has then you would know the SoCal players on that YNT are technically and skillfully sound as a Japanese player. What makes the Japanese players look more technical is the possession system they are in.

mbeach said:
It takes many years to develop players that can play like that, it is not as simple as changing a coach once the player is 20 years old.
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I understand it takes years to learn the system...if the Japanese coaches had the same YNT players selected originally by April Kanter and BJ Snow which was age 12/13 and put them in their academy system. They would be as good, if not better than the Japanese players in their possession game. That is my point....the American players are just as technical.....the difference is they were taught a different style of play than the Japanese. I know for a FACT, Ashley Sanchez and Kiki Pickett can play a possession game...if it was taught to them at ulittle.

And don't forget the YNT U17 team beat Japan twice before losing to them when it counted in the U17 WWC.
 
mbeach said:
Not really, I did not say they have donkey touches, I just said that on average they were not technically as good as the Japanese players, which is true.
And if a Japanese coach took those American players, s/he would not be able to make them play right away possession game like Japan does, against Japan. I am sure they would be able to play a good possession game against a Beach FC team of the same age, but not against Japan. For that you would need most YNT American players to be technically as good as the Japanese players, which they are not. It takes many years to develop players that can play like that, it is not as simple as changing a coach once the player is 20 years old.
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Nice plug for Beach but the Japanese player that I saw with the most technique was 15. It's clearly the coaching. The team was almost identical to the one that the US beat (and they were outplayed then). The difference is their coach ADJUSTED to what he learned. Our coach, well we saw what his adjustment was. Kick it to Sanchez and Kuhlman (who is not very technical AT ALL).
 
NoGoal said:
Like I posted earlier.....you have no idea what you are posting about. Has your DD ever competed against any U17 YNT players in club? If she has then you would know the SoCal players on that YNT are technically and skillfully sound as a Japanese player. What makes the Japanese players look more technical is the possession system they are in.

I understand it takes years to learn the system...if the Japanese coaches had the same YNT players selected originally by April Kanter and BJ Snow which was age 12/13 and put them in their academy system. They would be as good, if not better than the Japanese players in their possession game. That is my point....the American players are just as technical.....the difference is they were taught a different style of play than the Japanese. I know for a FACT, Ashley Sanchez and Kiki Pickett can play a possession game...if it was taught to them at ulittle.

And don't forget the YNT U17 team beat Japan twice before losing to them when it counted in the U17 WWC.
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It is already a proven fact the US style of play and development is much different than other countries. I recall reading a Christine Press article when she was playing in Europe. She said, they foster a team development approach vs individual approach. Yet Christine Press was able to adapt to their style of play after college and she played her club level soccer at Slammers which everyone knows is direct soccer.
 
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