Summary of Tryouts

[pooka]

I never said all. I said plenty. I never pointed out a certain body type or speed. I never put down anyone's kid. I never pointed out anyone's kid. Please don't put words in my mouth. Don't take it personal because you feel someone is talking about your girl or a friend/teammate who has seen success. My kid has been on the team with girls who will continue to be successful and girls who will fall off. This is just how it is.

I said it because it's true. I have been railing on this topic for over two years. I said it because I watch them play and not as a parent, but as an observer and student of the game. Like any athlete in any sport the best system is the system that fits the mind frame and physical abilities of that particular player. Value of a player depends on the system.

If you have an issue with my statements then in effect you have an issue with the DA system and why it was created. Our failures at the YNT international level is clearly showing we are lacking girls with the ability to pass and defend in the midfield. I didn't make this up. I stayed up in the middle of the night and was horrified observing Japan run through with ease. The whole time the announcers were praising this American midfielder unable to defend or get out of her own way forcing the other mids and the defenders to cover for her so Japan had open passing lanes. ALL DAY!

You see my issue is with the coaches being obsessed with a certain type of player that looks good, but isn't effective. My issue is with coaches putting fast girls up top and having them chase the ball and score with speed, but not teaching them the hold up 9 game and how to pass. My issue is with midfielders who over dribble, dribble into double teams and lose the ball and never connect with their fellow midfielders, wings and forwards but stays on the field while a midfielder who touches it twice and feeds the ball properly is benched because it just doesn't look fancy enough. My issue is with a 10 that loses the ball and can't waste her precious energy to go get it back right away but stays on the field over the effective 2 way player.

My issue is we pay these damn coaches to develop these girls and most of them don't.

The girls we have propped up as stars through ECNL/ODP are no match for the midfields that Germany, France, Japan, South Korea and now Mexico throw at us. Our disjointed version of kickball masquerading as "direct play" is easily shut down by back fours who don't send the wings forward leaving them exposed for the counter and every top country has figured it out.

If a current "star" becomes a "great" or "good" player it isn't necessarily his/her fault at U15. The systems they have been in are geared towards winning because that is what is best for the clubs. Showmanship gets more kids through the door. I know plenty of good defenders who will not be effective in this system where they must trap the ball and pass out to the wings and not just boot it up. I know plenty of fantastic strikers that will struggle because they can't play with their backs to goal and feed the wings and mids making runs. I know plenty of keepers who will struggle because they have never been taught to play out the back.

So yeah I said it. Frankly I don't give a shit if you like it or not. Truth hurts.

Been holding that in for a while huh? Feel better? GOOD! Now I'm not sure why you felt the need to cuss at me, and tell me you don't give a shit. I mean we are strangers on an Internet forum, here for amusement and obsession. I obviously don't give a shit what you think either. Now on to my thoughts....

I don't take anything personally about my child lol. You don't know who she is or how she plays. I take issue with the thinly veiled hopefulness that all of the second team parents are spewing on here that DA will be their DD final rise to the top. And not because they have worked to get there, but because it will "expose" the previous top girls. Wtf does that even mean? I don't like it because it ignores the fundamental truth that other girls' success is not at the expense of your precious snowflake who can pass the ball. If the snowflake was elite, then damnit she would just be elite! There's nobody that could overshadow that. No matter if a coach did favor a certain player. Talent is undeniable.

Now I do agree with you that coaching in the US overall sucks. Perhaps us soccer should have started with that. I do disagree with the whole idea of DA. Why? Because after a decade, hey have not achieved a damn thing on the boys side. Our BNT suck, our MNT suck, and the boys DA has done nothing to improve it. Soooo now all of a sudden, they want to mess with th girls side? Why not change their coaching curriculum?

Our girls YNT definitely need a shakeup of girls. Perhaps a new scouting system. Perhaps just staking it with girls from blues and surf and PDA isn't enough anymore.our WNT is finally getting a shakeup in personnel and diversity. Perhaps if we had cut some of the relics earlier, we would have had more success last year. But @C.A.M. i tell you what, message me and tell me what team your dd is on, and let's really observe this "amazing" da curriculum you're raving about over the next year.

im happy for all the girls, no matter the patch. But for the love of god stop trying to beat us over the head with this DA superiority thing when it hasn't even launched.

 

[C.A.M.]

Been holding that in for a while huh? Feel better? GOOD! Now I'm not sure why you felt the need to cuss at me, and tell me you don't give a shit. I mean we are strangers on an Internet forum, here for amusement and obsession. I obviously don't give a shit what you think either. Now on to my thoughts....

I don't take anything personally about my child lol. You don't know who she is or how she plays. I take issue with the thinly veiled hopefulness that all of the second team parents are spewing on here that DA will be their DD final rise to the top. And not because they have worked to get there, but because it will "expose" the previous top girls. Wtf does that even mean? I don't like it because it ignores the fundamental truth that other girls' success is not at the expense of your precious snowflake who can pass the ball. If the snowflake was elite, then damnit she would just be elite! There's nobody that could overshadow that. No matter if a coach did favor a certain player. Talent is undeniable.

Now I do agree with you that coaching in the US overall sucks. Perhaps us soccer should have started with that. I do disagree with the whole idea of DA. Why? Because after a decade, hey have not achieved a damn thing on the boys side. Our BNT suck, our MNT suck, and the boys DA has done nothing to improve it. Soooo now all of a sudden, they want to mess with th girls side? Why not change their coaching curriculum?

Our girls YNT definitely need a shakeup of girls. Perhaps a new scouting system. Perhaps just staking it with girls from blues and surf and PDA isn't enough anymore.our WNT is finally getting a shakeup in personnel and diversity. Perhaps if we had cut some of the relics earlier, we would have had more success last year. But @C.A.M. i tell you what, message me and tell me what team your dd is on, and let's really observe this "amazing" da curriculum you're raving about over the next year.

im happy for all the girls, no matter the patch. But for the love of god stop trying to beat us over the head with this DA superiority thing when it hasn't even launched.

See that's the problem here. Someone (me) gave an opinion on how things are going to work out you and say I'm disparaging the current kids who are successful or taking away from the hard work they put in. That is putting words in my mouth and causing issues. If you want to take that up with someone else - go for it, but I didn't say that or make an lightly veiled comment. I say what I mean.

What I said is no different than noting star high school players will fall off at the next level or a college superstar will be a pro flop.

As far as the DA superiority statement you just made to me, I have been saying that since my son was put into the system 3 years ago. I had the privilege of my son training DA style on the field next to my daughter training non DA style for 1.5 years. The coaching attitude to the kids is better, the coaching is better, the environment on the sidelines is better and the style of play is better. It is superior and the difference between our point of views comes from me living in it for a few years and it being "new" to you.

I had a wonderful conversation with a mainstay of the girls game at the field yesterday. This person was inquisitive about my girl not caring about playing high school, about her being ok with 4 day a week practices and keeping grades up and most of all, about play time with the subbing rules. The system is a whole different beast than ECNL and SCSDL.

Kids that are fantastic are going to fall off. Some people don't want to be that serious about the sport. Some aren't going to be able to grow their game more than what they have after being taught one way for 6-7 years. I saw it this weekend at the Legends College showcase where some ODP stars, and I mean stars, were struggling as their teams were transitioning to the structured passing and move, less direct play style. Does it mean they will continue to struggle? Not necessarily, but many of them will.

The game is different man. My girl has two things going for her. She has witnessed the system for the last 3 years and it fits her natural way of playing. She is one of the biggest, fastest girls on the field (5ft 6 in - 145lbs), has decent technique and way above tactical skills. She can play multiple positions and her coach likes that she is extremely coachable. He tells her to accomplish something and she usually can go do it and if not, they can discuss the reason why and how to make adjustments on the fly.

Now was that valuable in the system we all have been in? Yes and no. Coaches loved depending on her, but didnt value her enough to project her as a "star", until we moved on and there was no one to fill her spot. She isn't flashy enough or A type personality enough for that system to be labeled a star. I don't mention that to say I am bitter, just to say I don't have a tiny kid who can't hang physically or technically.

I'm saying it because I know first hand the essence of a player's value being dictated by the system and what coaches value. We didn't build her for all the love from 6-14. We built her for 15 on up. She is almost 14 so this year being her first year in the DA is fantastic.

My boy has been overlooked for other kids at the DA system. They love keepers with great feet and sometimes value that over stops because they are on the small field at 2006 and the pressure is high on keepers. He is 11 years old and 5ft 6 inches (grew 4 inches in 5 months). His foot work is above average but his competition is excellent. So after getting passed over at two academies in 3 months, we got him seen by the US Mens 19 coach, who happens have been a Premier League keeper, US Men's Team keeper at the World Cup and has a club team. He loved my son. Took him in, played him a year up and passed him on to the U19 Mens Team GK Coach who took him to a MLS Academy. Why did this happen - they told me they are building pros and that it is a long journey.

I know the meaning of a players value depending on the system. I'm not bitter. I wasn't being an ass when I cursed at you, I was just being blunt. My kids live it. I wasn't even being pompous. I was actually warning people. This is different and even if you're kid has been successful, she needs to be ready to grow exponentially. If she can't, her value will drop exponentially.

 

[pooka]

don't back pedal now! you were being an ass. but it's ok, I get it, you are hoping that your daughter will finally get the recognition you feel she deserves. I hope so too! the backhanded "she wasn't flashy or type A enough" just stop. yes some kids will fall off, no matter the system. some kids will take the opportunity to grow and learn the game until they max out their potential. Boys DA and girls DA will be two different beasts. they already are. the end goals aren't even the same, the resources being pumped into it aren't the same. but whatever. as I said, quit with the superiority complex. a good luck to you and your daughter.

 

[chargerfan]

don't back pedal now! you were being an ass. but it's ok, I get it, you are hoping that your daughter will finally get the recognition you feel she deserves. I hope so too! the backhanded "she wasn't flashy or type A enough" just stop. yes some kids will fall off, no matter the system. some kids will take the opportunity to grow and learn the game until they max out their potential. Boys DA and girls DA will be two different beasts. they already are. the end goals aren't even the same, the resources being pumped into it aren't the same. but whatever. as I said, quit with the superiority complex. a good luck to you and your daughter.

From the way he is hyping her as a mini Sydney leroux I don't think she needs your luck

 

[C.A.M.]

don't back pedal now! you were being an ass. but it's ok, I get it, you are hoping that your daughter will finally get the recognition you feel she deserves. I hope so too! the backhanded "she wasn't flashy or type A enough" just stop. yes some kids will fall off, no matter the system. some kids will take the opportunity to grow and learn the game until they max out their potential. Boys DA and girls DA will be two different beasts. they already are. the end goals aren't even the same, the resources being pumped into it aren't the same. but whatever. as I said, quit with the superiority complex. a good luck to you and your daughter.

Back pedal.my ass. I never put words in someone else's mouth. That person was being an ass and that person is you! You came at me disprespectfully and in fact, still are.

 

[C.A.M.]

From the way he is hyping her as a mini Sydney leroux I don't think she needs your luck

She looks like her jack ass

 

[C.A.M.]

I find it interesting the the true haters are on this board trying to brand me as a hater. Like usual, crabs in a barrel.

 

[NoGoal]

Crap that was seen at the u17 and u20 NT was really embarrassing... Besides the mids, The left/right backs for these teams were atrocious. You forgot to mention Politics dictactes player selection in most cases.

No different than US Boys DA results. They were just eliminated today in the Qtrs at the U20 WC.

 

[pooka]

Back pedal.my ass. I never put words in someone else's mouth. That person was being an ass and that person is you! You came at me disprespectfully and in fact, still are.

I wasn't being disrespectful, I'm calling you on your bullshit. let me guess, your DD was a bench player on a top team. probably a club that had ECNL. now you have moved on to a DA club, and she was picked up. Great!! now here's the real question: If the SAME coaches were there before the DA patch, teaching a poor method of play, what makes you think that will change? you think because US Soccer sends a handout the coaches will finally make sure to develop each player on their team in a specified way? All I'm saying is, stop with the backhanded insults. they aren't necessary. just be happy your DD is where she is, and hopes she can use it to get where she wants to go.

I'm done talking about this.

 

[chargerfan]

She looks like her jack ass

You have been hyping her as the next best thing since your first post. Future D1 player, a coaches dream, and all that. Then you rudely talk about girls who have worked hard to be top players even though you think they aren't skilled enough to remain in those too spots in DA. If your daughter is truly as amazing as you claim you should not be trying to bring down other girls since they should not be a threat.

 

[NoGoal]

From the way he is hyping her as a mini Sydney leroux I don't think she needs your luck

If any parents DD is a mini Leroux, she would already be in the YNT player pool. Here is the rub, YNT players are scouted by US Soccer scouts. They will continue selecting the same player types @ DA Showcases.

 

[NoGoal]

You have been hyping her as the next best thing since your first post. Future D1 player, a coaches dream, and all that. Then you rudely talk about girls who have worked hard to be top players even though you think they aren't skilled enough to remain in those too spots in DA. If your daughter is truly as amazing as you claim you should not be trying to bring down other girls since they should not be a threat.

As my DD would say, you're a savage! #Ilike

 

[chargerfan]

As my DD would say, you're a savage! #Ilike

I will take that as a compliment! Like I tell my children, there's no need to tear anyone down to build yourself up.

 

[shales1002]

If these teams you expect to be better actually follow the DA script you will see many players previously touted as stars struggle and players seen as average shine. The curriculum ask for different tools, skills and play styles to be executed than what most of our girls were taught and reinforced over the past 6-7 years. I expect a bigger adjustment period than most others do.

For the record you stated @C.A.M., "stars struggle and players seen as average shine."

It's the same clubs running the GDA. A new league won't change the way they have been doing things. Glad U.S. Soccer sent a curriculum which probably killed a bunch of trees in the process. The top will continue to rise regardless of the "curriculum", league, or patch.

We've all seen a drop off. Girls who were the best on the small field struggle on the big field and vice versa . Everyone peaks at different times and believe me,GDA, a league that has yet to start, will change very much. Honestly, they have no receipts at this point.

 

[C.A.M.]

You have been hyping her as the next best thing since your first post. Future D1 player, a coaches dream, and all that. Then you rudely talk about girls who have worked hard to be top players even though you think they aren't skilled enough to remain in those too spots in DA. If your daughter is truly as amazing as you claim you should not be trying to bring down other girls since they should not be a threat.

You took it that way because younare insecure. Personal problem.

 

[MakeAPlay]

I never said all. I said plenty. I never pointed out a certain body type or speed. I never put down anyone's kid. I never pointed out anyone's kid. Please don't put words in my mouth. Don't take it personal because you feel someone is talking about your girl or a friend/teammate who has seen success. My kid has been on the team with girls who will continue to be successful and girls who will fall off. This is just how it is.

I said it because it's true. I have been railing on this topic for over two years. I said it because I watch them play and not as a parent, but as an observer and student of the game. Like any athlete in any sport the best system is the system that fits the mind frame and physical abilities of that particular player. Value of a player depends on the system.

If you have an issue with my statements then in effect you have an issue with the DA system and why it was created. Our failures at the YNT international level is clearly showing we are lacking girls with the ability to pass and defend in the midfield. I didn't make this up. I stayed up in the middle of the night and was horrified observing Japan run through with ease. The whole time the announcers were praising this American midfielder unable to defend or get out of her own way forcing the other mids and the defenders to cover for her so Japan had open passing lanes. ALL DAY!

You see my issue is with the coaches being obsessed with a certain type of player that looks good, but isn't effective. My issue is with coaches putting fast girls up top and having them chase the ball and score with speed, but not teaching them the hold up 9 game and how to pass. My issue is with midfielders who over dribble, dribble into double teams and lose the ball and never connect with their fellow midfielders, wings and forwards but stays on the field while a midfielder who touches it twice and feeds the ball properly is benched because it just doesn't look fancy enough. My issue is with a 10 that loses the ball and can't waste her precious energy to go get it back right away but stays on the field over the effective 2 way player.

My issue is we pay these damn coaches to develop these girls and most of them don't.

The girls we have propped up as stars through ECNL/ODP are no match for the midfields that Germany, France, Japan, South Korea and now Mexico throw at us. Our disjointed version of kickball masquerading as "direct play" is easily shut down by back fours who don't send the wings forward leaving them exposed for the counter and every top country has figured it out.

If a current "star" becomes a "great" or "good" player it isn't necessarily his/her fault at U15. The systems they have been in are geared towards winning because that is what is best for the clubs. Showmanship gets more kids through the door. I know plenty of good defenders who will not be effective in this system where they must trap the ball and pass out to the wings and not just boot it up. I know plenty of fantastic strikers that will struggle because they can't play with their backs to goal and feed the wings and mids making runs. I know plenty of keepers who will struggle because they have never been taught to play out the back.

So yeah I said it. Frankly I don't give a shit if you like it or not. Truth hurts.

The problem with US Soccer isn't the players it is the coaches. The same ones who created and that are overseeing the GDA. Until the change happens at the top we are in for more of the same.

 

[MakeAPlay]

See that's the problem here. Someone (me) gave an opinion on how things are going to work out you and say I'm disparaging the current kids who are successful or taking away from the hard work they put in. That is putting words in my mouth and causing issues. If you want to take that up with someone else - go for it, but I didn't say that or make an lightly veiled comment. I say what I mean.

What I said is no different than noting star high school players will fall off at the next level or a college superstar will be a pro flop.

As far as the DA superiority statement you just made to me, I have been saying that since my son was put into the system 3 years ago. I had the privilege of my son training DA style on the field next to my daughter training non DA style for 1.5 years. The coaching attitude to the kids is better, the coaching is better, the environment on the sidelines is better and the style of play is better. It is superior and the difference between our point of views comes from me living in it for a few years and it being "new" to you.

I had a wonderful conversation with a mainstay of the girls game at the field yesterday. This person was inquisitive about my girl not caring about playing high school, about her being ok with 4 day a week practices and keeping grades up and most of all, about play time with the subbing rules. The system is a whole different beast than ECNL and SCSDL.

Kids that are fantastic are going to fall off. Some people don't want to be that serious about the sport. Some aren't going to be able to grow their game more than what they have after being taught one way for 6-7 years. I saw it this weekend at the Legends College showcase where some ODP stars, and I mean stars, were struggling as their teams were transitioning to the structured passing and move, less direct play style. Does it mean they will continue to struggle? Not necessarily, but many of them will.

The game is different man. My girl has two things going for her. She has witnessed the system for the last 3 years and it fits her natural way of playing. She is one of the biggest, fastest girls on the field (5ft 6 in - 145lbs), has decent technique and way above tactical skills. She can play multiple positions and her coach likes that she is extremely coachable. He tells her to accomplish something and she usually can go do it and if not, they can discuss the reason why and how to make adjustments on the fly.

Now was that valuable in the system we all have been in? Yes and no. Coaches loved depending on her, but didnt value her enough to project her as a "star", until we moved on and there was no one to fill her spot. She isn't flashy enough or A type personality enough for that system to be labeled a star. I don't mention that to say I am bitter, just to say I don't have a tiny kid who can't hang physically or technically.

I'm saying it because I know first hand the essence of a player's value being dictated by the system and what coaches value. We didn't build her for all the love from 6-14. We built her for 15 on up. She is almost 14 so this year being her first year in the DA is fantastic.

My boy has been overlooked for other kids at the DA system. They love keepers with great feet and sometimes value that over stops because they are on the small field at 2006 and the pressure is high on keepers. He is 11 years old and 5ft 6 inches (grew 4 inches in 5 months). His foot work is above average but his competition is excellent. So after getting passed over at two academies in 3 months, we got him seen by the US Mens 19 coach, who happens have been a Premier League keeper, US Men's Team keeper at the World Cup and has a club team. He loved my son. Took him in, played him a year up and passed him on to the U19 Mens Team GK Coach who took him to a MLS Academy. Why did this happen - they told me they are building pros and that it is a long journey.

I know the meaning of a players value depending on the system. I'm not bitter. I wasn't being an ass when I cursed at you, I was just being blunt. My kids live it. I wasn't even being pompous. I was actually warning people. This is different and even if you're kid has been successful, she needs to be ready to grow exponentially. If she can't, her value will drop exponentially.

Maybe I'm weird but we are talking about women's soccer isn't men's soccer. Unless a women is on the full WNT pro soccer is a dillitante sport and not really a career. My player could play pro but is more concerned with grades and grad school. Women's soccer is a generation away from being a true path. Let's rehash this in 20 years.

 

[C.A.M.]

For the record you stated @C.A.M., "stars struggle and players seen as average shine."

It's the same clubs running the GDA. A new league won't change the way they have been doing things. Glad U.S. Soccer sent a curriculum which probably killed a bunch of trees in the process. The top will continue to rise regardless of the "curriculum", league, or patch.

We've all seen a drop off. Girls who were the best on the small field struggle on the big field and vice versa . Everyone peaks at different times and believe me,GDA, a league that has yet to start, will change very much. Honestly, they have no receipts at this point.

Anytime we say the curriculum doesn't matter on if the player is going to do well, we are lying to ourselves. Watch the NBA Finals and it is apparent what it takes to be an NBA star now compared to 5-6 years ago has changed dramatically. What once was valued to be successful in the game has changed. This isn't just the usual, high school is coming, boys are coming, burnout is coming change because they are trying to change the fundamental way our kids are playing and thinking the game.

Basically a change in the culture. That what the person who is well known in this scene and I were speaking about. Like many people here, this person expressed doubts, but for different reasons. The discussion was based around the cultural change that comes with the DA rules and how the parents and girls will accept/adjust to these changes. It was really profound and interesting to get the perspective of someone so deep into it on the club level.

We agreed that that it will not be for everyone, no matter how good they are. The other factors besides ability (mentally/physically) will be a deterrent for many girls. The perspective this person hadn't been privy too much was my the one expressed by my family and the other families at our DA. Our kids love the structure, coaching approach, separation of parental influence and no high school. At the end I think while US Soccer wants to get rid of ECNL, there will always be a home for it.

We had some really big team, big baller guest players this weekend and their parents were really impressed by how our team operates on the field. Basically a different mind state and culture. These girls adjusted wonderfully and performed wonderfully. It was impressive.

I don't see what the US 20 men did at this World Cup as a failure. Went out the same level as Germany did and actually gave a better overall performance. We aren't top dogs on that side, the game is ultra competitive world wide and we are a team that every opponent has to grind deep to beat. Would I have liked that Semi-Final berth, of course. This is our 4th or 5th most popular sport (soccer/hockey toss up) and we are gaining ground. This is the 1st or 2nd most popular sport for our competition and they have 60-100 years on us to work out the kinks.

Our mens DA is 10 years old. Lionel Messi is going on 30 and has been at Barcelona since he was at 12. Yeah we are babies learning.

 

[chargerfan]

Anytime we say the curriculum doesn't matter on if the player is going to do well, we are lying to ourselves. Watch the NBA Finals and it is apparent what it takes to be an NBA star now compared to 5-6 years ago has changed dramatically. What once was valued to be successful in the game has changed. This isn't just the usual, high school is coming, boys are coming, burnout is coming change because they are trying to change the fundamental way our kids are playing and thinking the game.

Basically a change in the culture. That what the person who is well known in this scene and I were speaking about. Like many people here, this person expressed doubts, but for different reasons. The discussion was based around the cultural change that comes with the DA rules and how the parents and girls will accept/adjust to these changes. It was really profound and interesting to get the perspective of someone so deep into it on the club level.

We agreed that that it will not be for everyone, no matter how good they are. The other factors besides ability (mentally/physically) will be a deterrent for many girls. The perspective this person hadn't been privy too much was my the one expressed by my family and the other families at our DA. Our kids love the structure, coaching approach, separation of parental influence and no high school. At the end I think while US Soccer wants to get rid of ECNL, there will always be a home for it.

We had some really big team, big baller guest players this weekend and their parents were really impressed by how our team operates on the field. Basically a different mind state and culture. These girls adjusted wonderfully and performed wonderfully. It was impressive.

I don't see what the US 20 men did at this World Cup as a failure. Went out the same level as Germany did and actually gave a better overall performance. We aren't top dogs on that side, the game is ultra competitive world wide and we are a team that every opponent has to grind deep to beat. Would I have liked that Semi-Final berth, of course. This is our 4th or 5th most popular sport (soccer/hockey toss up) and we are gaining ground. This is the 1st or 2nd most popular sport for our competition and they have 60-100 years on us to work out the kinks.

Our mens DA is 10 years old. Lionel Messi is going on 30 and has been at Barcelona since he was at 12. Yeah we are babies learning.

Why would an amazing Da team that plays as well as the uswnt in your estimation need "big baller" guests? So many fishy posts on the forum lately.

 

[C.A.M.]

The problem with US Soccer isn't the players it is the coaches. The same ones who created and that are overseeing the GDA. Until the change happens at the top we are in for more of the same.

I won't disagree. My question to you is do you feel that if we changed the coaches but kept the same style of play we will be successful where we haven't in the most recent Youth World Cups?