Player Development vs Super Team Chasing?

Luis Andres said:
Interesting topic here. For me it’s not about player development vs chasing the super team. It’s not about winning vs development. It’s about finding the right fit and environment for the specific goals that your child has or if they are too young yet to have goals that you want for them if development is high on the list. Who is to say that a super team is not developing players as well as another so call “development over winning” team that simply preaches development over winning like an evangelist with a bible?

In fact they are the first ones to undermine the super teams and their success towards how they see the development process by claiming to say they just teach kick ball and win at all costs? Is that all they really do to stay successful in always building competitive teams with the right fit of competitive players? If I were to say that all these teams and coaches that say we strive to develop players to their full potential and don’t value winning games and trimming rosters are a package of mere sham sugar coated lies engulfed in BS. Can they really make the so call righteous claim to really be developing players equally if there is a huge talent gap in the roster because they don’t recruit or cut players and keep players around for so-called development purposes? And risk the development of the majority of players disrupting the development process of the “team” as a whole. Are they really helping the team or are they creating more damage to the whole so-called development process.

There is no such thing as an all 100% solution to the development vs winning issue. Is it a compromise? Or should it really be more about narrowing the distribution gap between the best and the worst players so you can develop everyone equally thus making the team as a whole develop better and faster in the process.

Coaches have a limited time with a team to develop all players equally. So what do you do? Target the weak and screw the average and best players? Or target the best and screw the weak players? Or do you simply just mix it up equally which benefits the average and weak players but screws the best players on the team? It should be more about finding the balance for development time spent on different players while also attempting to balance the talent level of the roster to narrow the gap so you don’t have to keep robbing precious time from Peter to give to Paul. Having a narrow talent level in the roster allows you to maximize development efforts for the “team” which covers all players equally and fairly.

I respect the teams that make the necessary cuts and recruit the right players to keep the team’s talent fairly equal. I respect the teams that play possession soccer and at the same time value winning with the aim of exposing their players to the toughest competition possible to increase the rate of development of the process in respect to the development of the whole and not for the one. It’s not about keeping the individual player who had failed to develop and has fallen below the bar because he or she is not working as hard as the rest outside of team practice and feels entitled to play in games because they are part of the team. It’s about giving them the right opportunity they needed to find the right team that truly matches their goals and expectations towards their own development process needs

The most important part of the development process is to have a clear and distinct definition and understanding of what development truly means to you and your kid. The word development is being thrown around so freely these days that I feel that most people don’t really quite understand what it really means anymore. Find the right fit and environment first that defines what development truly means to you and make sure that the team has the same values and beliefs towards the process.
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I did not read all of your garbage here, but no one turns on a dime this quickly unless you got your ass handed to you by your club. LOL
 
Fact said:
I did not read all of your garbage here, but no one turns on a dime this quickly unless you got your ass handed to you by your club. LOL
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No it was more like having a Eureka moment after what I’ve observed across different teams throughout the processs
 
Fact said:
Nice try loser. Your ass was handed to you. Now go rant about an 8 year old costing your time a victory. LOL
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No one has handed anything to me I’ve just done my research and looked at all the different point of views from different sides and angles for the specific subject matter at hand. Just expressing my current views on the argument. If anyone can counter my argument for why I’m wrong with fact and constructive logic I would welcome them to do so. And you better make sure it’s a home run.
 
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Luis Andres said:
1) Who is to say that a super team is not developing players as well as another so call “development over winning” team that simply preaches development over winning like an evangelist with a bible?
2) In fact they are the first ones to undermine the super teams and their success towards how they see the development process by claiming to say they just teach kick ball and win at all costs?
3) Is that all they really do to stay successful in always building competitive teams with the right fit of competitive players?
4) Can they really make the so call righteous claim to really be developing players equally and to their fullest potential if there is a huge talent gap in the roster because they don’t recruit or cut players and keep players around for so-called development purposes?
5) Are they really helping the team or are they creating more damage to the whole so-called development process. Could cutting and recruiting players also be looked as part of aiding the development development process?
6) Could it be that the organizations with all the experience, research that take these kinds of measures really just understand the bigger picture better?
7) There is no such thing as an all 100% solution to the development vs winning issue. Could it be a compromise?
8) Coaches have a limited time with a team to develop all players equally. So what do you do?
9) Target the weak and screw the average and best players?
10) Or target the best and screw the weak players?
11) Or do you simply just mix it up equally which benefits the average and weak players but screws the best players on the team?
12) Could it be why or why not?
13) Calling out Docs?
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is this a homework assignment ?
 
Grace T. said:
The no GK trainer thing would be a deal killer for me at any club (no matter how desperate we are for it or to break into that next level). My son has a trainer now who is the best of the best and who catches little things neither I nor his old club trainer would have every caught. The once a week has done more to progress his playing than anything. I rather go to a club without free GK training than give him up. (Besides, old club has had 4 GK coaches in 1 year...currently his old field trainer is the GK trainer....great field trainer, has the GK basics, is up on the latest thinking but never played the position and misses some of the nuances an experienced GK might see).

If DS stick with goalkeeping I'm resigned to be a club hopper. If there are 2 GKs on a club it seems really unstable unless the 2 GKs are roughly equal caliber and the coach is willing to have them play a few minutes on the field. If one GK outperforms the other, the coach is either going to be under pressure to give the stronger one more minutes, or the stronger one will resent having to share minutes with the weaker one "for political reasons".
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As they get older your gonna see 2 keepers on every team. Especially at the higher levels.
 
Luis Andres said:
. It’s not about keeping the individual player who had failed to develop and has fallen below the bar because he or she is not working as hard as the rest outside of team practice and feels entitled to play in games because they are part of the team. It’s about giving them the right opportunity they needed to find the right team that truly matches their goals and expectations towards their own development process needs
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If that were the case then clubs would make an effort to place dropped players in an appropriately placed team (either within the club, or if none exists somewhere else). Some do, but few and far between since a lot of the coaches are concerned about the wins and the standings since that's what they are judged upon, not the individual players and whether they develop. Most seem content to have the weaker player fill out the roster (and the fee) until something better (the so-called "impact player" everyone is advertising in the soccer boards for) comes along.

Primetime said:
As they get older your gonna see 2 keepers on every team. Especially at the higher levels.
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Agree, but even in the pros, it doesn't make the situation very stable particularly since the argument for equal play time is harder to justify as you move up in age and difficulty level. The exception is when the 2nd is clearly the weaker keeper and is just happy to play for the team, knowing they won't get many minutes.
 
Grace T. said:
If that were the case then clubs would make an effort to place dropped players in an appropriately placed team (either within the club, or if none exists somewhere else). Some do, but few and far between since a lot of the coaches are concerned about the wins and the standings since that's what they are judged upon, not the individual players and whether they develop. Most seem content to have the weaker player fill out the roster (and the fee) until something better (the so-called "impact player" everyone is advertising in the soccer boards for) comes along.
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Maybe the sad reality of the nature of the business side of things. Not arguing with you on that. I would like to believe however that not all clubs or coaches are like that.
 
@Fact if all you got is rating my posts as dumb or old and cannot contribute to the current discussion of the subject matter at hand and just give out negative ratings with no response then you should get lost. Cause it makes you look like a loser and a troll.
 
Luis Andres said:
@Fact if all you got is rating my posts as dumb or old and cannot contribute to the current discussion of the subject matter at hand and just give out negative ratings with no response then you should get lost. Cause it makes you look like a loser and a troll.
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I think you are a complete loser for coming on a public forum and blaming a little 8 year old girl for YOUR losing a game. I rate your posts dumb or old because you are full of shit. No one that can be so blatantly mean to a little girl, especially in public, deserves any respect for what they post....there I contributed, happy now?
 
Fact said:
I think you are a complete loser for coming on a public forum and blaming a little 8 years old girl for YOUR losing a game. I rate your posts dumb or old because you are full of shit. No one that can be so blatantly mean to a little girl, especially in oublci
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You sob you starting to piss me off now cause you keep going back to the same ole BS. And I’ve never blamed her but wanted advice on how to help her. Go fxxx yourself. Do you even know how hard I have worked to help girls on the team to facilitate and make sure they all get an equal chance to progress ? I’m the first one to offer my time and car if they can’t make it to practice. My wife does the same. We pick up girls and take them to outside training with my daughter. I go way out of my way more than anyone else to make sure they are all having fun and enjoying the process by having play dates with my daughter after. I’ve donated more money than anyone else to the team to help. If anyone has financial issues to cover tournament fees, I’m the first to help and come up with solutions. And if some parent could not afford for some reason a tournament or to even stay on the team because it has been a financial burden, I’ll be the first one to help and wouldn’t mine covering their tuition expense. I’m not here to knock down little 8 year old girls. I was concerned cause she was falling behind and had become a liability to the team in big games. So to me? The question was is she on the right team or should she be in another team where she can continue her development progress. The last thing I wanted to see is her totally lose her confidence, develop a phobia and then want to quit the sport because she is scared to play. And if it meant gettin on the coaches face to confront him about it so be it. I’m not a coach but I’m smart enough to recognize when a situation is going in the right or wrong direction. And I’ll speak my mind and give my thoughts whenever possible. Not to be a dick but you are the one coming up with fairy tale stories about your kids having world championship success with minimal effort. Shit like that to me does not exist. You get back what you put in. And if you don’t work hard at something that you claim to say you love and have talent for, you will not have world fame. Simple as that. And that’s why I called out your bull shit
 
Luis Andres said:
...If I were to say that all these teams and coaches that say we strive to develop players to their full potential and don’t value winning games and trimming rosters are a package of mere sham sugar coated lies engulfed in BS. Can they really make the so call righteous claim to really be developing players equally and to their fullest potential if there is a huge talent gap in the roster because they don’t recruit or cut players and keep players around for so-called development purposes? And risk the development of the majority of players by disrupting the balance for the development process of the “team” as a whole and in fairness to the unit. Are they really helping the team or are they creating more damage to the whole so-called development process. Could cutting and recruiting players also be looked as part of aiding the development development process? Could it be that the organizations with all the experience, research that take these kinds of measures really just understand the bigger picture better?
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This comes from a misunderstanding of how development works.

First, there is no guarantee that the better kids now will be better in a few years. It's possible (I'd say likely) that the majority of the best kids now won't end up being very good in a few years because they're relying on physical attributes and development schedules that won't carry over through puberty. Given that this is the case (just ask any coach that has stayed with multiple teams from 12 to 16), cutting the "lessor" kids when they are young ends up hurting the development of the players who end up sticking with the sport at the higher levels.

Second, the idea that a player has to be on the best team with the best kids to progress is false. I used to think this way and put my son into the DA (even playing up a year), but the trouble there is that kids start relying on their superstar teammates to get them out of trouble. They don't have to work so hard because someone else has their back. But when a kid is one of the best on the team, they have to step up and play their best all the time. If they don't play well, the team doesn't play well. This teaches leadership and responsibility and, in my view, makes kids better in the long run.
 
focomoso said:
This comes from a misunderstanding of how development works.

First, there is no guarantee that the better kids now will be better in a few years. It's possible (I'd say likely) that the majority of the best kids now won't end up being very good in a few years because they're relying on physical attributes and development schedules that won't carry over through puberty. Given that this is the case (just ask any coach that has stayed with multiple teams from 12 to 16), cutting the "lessor" kids when they are young ends up hurting the development of the players who end up sticking with the sport at the higher levels.

Second, the idea that a player has to be on the best team with the best kids to progress is false. I used to think this way and put my son into the DA (even playing up a year), but the trouble there is that kids start relying on their superstar teammates to get them out of trouble. They don't have to work so hard because someone else has their back. But when a kid is one of the best on the team, they have to step up and play their best all the time. If they don't play well, the team doesn't play well. This teaches leadership and responsibility and, in my view, makes kids better in the long run.
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You make some valid points. But you do mention relying on physical attributes. What if that was not the case given the example of a kid who may not have the physical attributes and yet is struggling. To me that’s more of an issue with fit and placement of the right team. Usually clubs have the a,b,c team and if that were the case why not move the kid from the a team to the b team to continue the child’s progress. And if later after puberty they prove themselves then move them back up.

On your second point, that to me is an individual’s case and needs to be addressed appropriately by the coach if they are relying on the best kids talent and not working as hard. That’s the coach’s job to correct and push the kid to work hard. But to say that you can’t maximize development for the team with a talent of equal roster that all work hard is false. If it would be true then you would see it happening in professional sports where talent rosters are constantly being trimmed and balanced for the proper objective to create a team that has the proper synergy. To me it’s about building that synergy within the roster to maximize development and if a few pieces don’t make sense, you adjust them, cut, recruit etc. to balance out your roster. Where one piece may not work well for one team, it may be the solution for another that needs that type of player. I believe it’s all subjective to the vision of the the coach and management for the team. At the end of the day they know what’s best for the team and if it means cutting players at time so be it. The player needs to get clear about what his personal goals and objectives are and if it’s the right match then he or she should go on with the opportunity at hand or figure out where he or she may be a better fit elsewhere. You make sacrifices and adjustment for the purpose of the whole and not for the one. When you cater development efforts to the one, you may be doing more damage to the progress of the whole unit in the end.
 
Luis Andres said:
You sob you starting to piss me off now cause you keep going back to the same ole BS. And I’ve never blamed her but wanted advice on how to help her. Go fxxx yourself. Do you even know how hard I have worked to help girls on the team to facilitate and make sure they all get an equal chance to progress ? I’m the first one to offer my time and car if they can’t make it to practice. My wife does the same. We pick up girls and take them to outside training with my daughter. I go way out of my way more than anyone else to make sure they are all having fun and enjoying the process by having play dates with my daughter after. I’ve donated more money than anyone else to the team to help. If anyone has financial issues to cover tournament fees, I’m the first to help and come up with solutions. And if some parent could not afford for some reason a tournament or to even stay on the team because it has been a financial burden, I’ll be the first one to help and wouldn’t mine covering their tuition expense. I’m not here to knock down little 8 year old girls. I was concerned cause she was falling behind and had become a liability to the team in big games. So to me? The question was is she on the right team or should she be in another team where she can continue her development progress. The last thing I wanted to see is her totally lose her confidence, develop a phobia and then want to quit the sport because she is scared to play. And if it meant gettin on the coaches face to confront him about it so be it. I’m not a coach but I’m smart enough to recognize when a situation is going in the right or wrong direction. And I’ll speak my mind and give my thoughts whenever possible. Not to be a dick but you are the one coming up with fairy tale stories about your kids having world championship success with minimal effort. Shit like that to me does not exist. You get back what you put in. And if you don’t work hard at something that you claim to say you love and have talent for, you will not have world fame. Simple as that. And that’s why I called out your bull shit
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You are the one that keeps mentioning me so I responded.

Now I don’t have time to read all your dribble but your true colors are showing. You don’t get it. You actually just wrote but I am sure you’ll delete it but don’t worry I took a screen shot and you can’t delete it from my post- The 8 year old was a “liability” to your team. You are pathetic. When are you going to learn, you don’t have a right to talk to a coach about someone else’s kid. PERIOD! Loser!
 
Fact said:
You are the one that keeps mentioning me so I responded.

Now I don’t have time to read all your dribble but your true colors are showing. You don’t get it. You actually just wrote but I am sure you’ll delete it but don’t worry I took a screen shot and you can’t delete it from my post- The 8 year old was a “liability” to your team. You are pathetic. When are you going to learn, you don’t have a right to talk to a coach about someone else’s kid. PERIOD! Loser!
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Like I said before I wouldn’t say nothing on here that I haven’t discussed with her father in person. We’ve talked about the issue at hand and he knows the situation. And we are working to fix the problem. There is nothing wrong with what I said if her Father and I have acknowledged the specific issue and problem and we both have agreed on what the problem is. He understands that she can be a liability for the team in big games, we both see the same thing on the field. Adult talk. But where it would be wrong is in mentioning something like that to the child. Because that would be wrong. Don’t take shit into your own context without knowing the specifics of the matter.
 
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