Burbank United 05 & 06 Girls caught violating player loan program.

Discussion in 'SoCalScene' started by xnd298, Oct 20, 2018.

  1. Messi>CR7

    Messi>CR7 Bronze

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    One reason is fairly obvious by the existence of this thread. If you don't have this rule or enforce this rule, shady coaches/clubs can roster a team with only 9 or 10 players to play 11v11 counting on getting guest players every weekend.

    Also I would like to think winning the league does/should matter to kids, so fairness matters. While not the case in this situation, you could have bronze teams constantly borrowing players from gold or silver. With the exception of the UEFA Champions League, winning the regular season league is the most important achievement for every major professional team outside of US. Often a promotion is the ultimate reward if you're not already in the top league. Somehow in the US we have this MLS playoff system and countless summer/winner tournaments for youth teams..............but that's another topic.
     
  2. Toch

    Toch Bronze

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    Sounds like you’ve got some unresolved issues. You’re one of those scumbags that likes to talk crap to kids. How do you know that the Kid KNEW he/she was cheating?
    Gosh you’re such a loser
     
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  3. xnd298

    xnd298 Bronze

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    I spoke with a parent from the team. Everyone directly involved knew. You clearly have a messed up value system that advocates cheating over transparency. Its obvious you are the one with issues.
     
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  4. Kicker4Life

    Kicker4Life

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    Looks like between these 2 teams, they are a combine 1 - 13, hardly “cheaters” unless they are using their ‘05’s on the ‘06 team.
     
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  5. xnd298

    xnd298 Bronze

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    You missed the part where CSL stripped the 05 team of their wins.

    But by your logic, if the team loses every game and they are breaking the rules fielding players that are not eligible to play in two games that day, because the team lost they aren't cheating ?

    What if a player was injured playing in a game that should have been a forfeit ?

    Your logic seems half baked.
     
  6. GKDad65

    GKDad65 Bronze

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    I can remember, as a new parent, how upset I got over this nonsense. In a few years you'll laugh at all the drama of youth soccer and realize how silly it has become.
    We are both the victims of this system (Clubs) and the problem.
     
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  7. Kicker4Life

    Kicker4Life

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    No....I’m just not vilifying them to the extent you are. Cheating implies you’ve given yourself an illegal ADVANTAGE. Yes, they broke the rules and most importantly, rules in place to protect player safety and should face the penalties for doing so.

    I just don’t share the same amount of animosity towards them as you seem to have.

    Nothing more, nothing less
     
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  8. xnd298

    xnd298 Bronze

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    There is a very simple way they could have handled it, just play with 10 on the days you can't use the loan program.
     
  9. Not_that_Serious

    Not_that_Serious Bronze

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    We tell kids play whomever is on the field. We played a team yesterday who acted like they won the super bowl after coming back to tie the game. They brought kids who didnt even have club jerseys and kid told ref "i have a zero, just cant see it". The center ref didnt care, was just running the game to get paid. Was more a tackle football game, then an actual soccer match. Had coach bring in their Discovery kids to play us as well - a team consisting of the "left over" kids who didnt make the discovery roster and dropped down an entire flight to try and dominate the division. Has worked for the most part, but competing at the wrong level. Have to teach kids to deal with whats in front them - but most understand dropping an ECNL team or group of kids down to flight 2 or 3 to play isnt good thing. Unless the goal is to win.

    Moving 1 or 2 kids down a flight to help kids with less skill develop is a good thing (i know folks have a fit over it)- if you are not revolving the entire game around those players. Sometimes teams lack a mid to distribute a ball, a strong defender, a wing or whatever, that can make a team play more fluid - thus helping the kids develop individually. Sometimes even bringing a kid with a high motor will teach kids to move more. In other countries they move kids up and down for these reasons - but a lot of emphasis in our country to win over becoming better as individuals. That being said, bringing in 3-4 new starters is PROBABLY against the "spirit" of competition. Most likely it wont help develop your the other kids.

    Playing on the field for two rosters is plainly a rules violation. This isnt put in place to protect kids, given kids have played 2-3 games in a day before. Cal South and the various leagues know being able to multi-team roster a player is mainly done for Wins, and solely done in the interest of the club.

    Keepers have been mentioned, but if you look at SCDSL the rule seems to have been modified from what it was previous years (could be wrong): No player may participate on more than one SCDSL team on a given day (with the exception of a GoalKeeper who may play in no more than 2 games per day in which, when “club passed” for a second game of the day may ONLY play in goal as the “club passed” player in a 2-game day. IMO it shouldnt matter what game the kid plays the field. You can have a really good keeper at flight 1 and want to help him develop other aspects of his game - but maybe isnt good enough to develop at flight 1. So moving him to flight 2 or 3 to develop his touch, passing skills, etc can be done at a different speed. He might be a short kid who might want to learn to play a different position or MAYBE he might want to have some fun out of goal. You can also have a situation where you have a keeper at a lower flight developing his skills, but is a really good field player who can play at a higher flight. Some will say, just roster the kid at the higher flight and have him play keeper for the lower flight - not always possible with scheduling conflicts.
     
  10. Holliday88

    Holliday88 Bronze

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    Couple of thoughts from someone who comes from another state/system.

    1) include blame for CalSouth. Many other states use digital player cards that refs access at game time on an iPhone or Android phone. CalSouth could have this and should have had it years ago as it was developed by the same company that does their registrations. With this system, once a player is checked in for a game he/she would be ineligible for another game that day (his/her card will be locked or greyed out) if they the league is setup with those rules.
    2) I agree with a previous poster this is breaking the rules, but not cheating. I'd rather play a full squad than a short squad as our goal at these younger ages is development not winning. Right? And sometimes players leave late in the summer and it is too late to replace them, but you still have a team that wants to play together. It's really not a big deal. These were Bronze teams, right?
    3) CSL is too restrictive with loaning players. Credit to SCDSL on this. Younger ages should allow for more movement within rosters. A season cap on games allowed would protect playing time for weaker players. Current system is gamed by rostering Silver level players on Bronze teams and then they can play for both teams without issue (not on same day), which just means the players who need the most work get the least.
     
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  11. outside!

    outside! Silver Elite

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    This!
     
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  12. Primetime

    Primetime Bronze

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    intentionally "breaking the rules" is the definition of cheating. Regardless how big or small an advantage it gave them. The rules aren't complicated and they decided to break em. No gray area here.
     
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  13. Primetime

    Primetime Bronze

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    There is such a thing as cheating and still losing. The good old phrase "cheaters never prosper". I didn't look but I believe the original post said they had 3 wins relinquished and those were the 3 games in question so perhaps it did help em win some games. Plus Despite age or play level I'm sure extra or better yet any subs is an upgrade from none or playing short.
     
  14. espola

    espola Silver Elite

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    One of espola's old rules is that if you cheat, don't win. Someone you beat will do the research and find you out. Of course, if you cheat and still lose, no one will care (although some will mock you when they find out).
     
  15. Holliday88

    Holliday88 Bronze

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    Breaking the rules is not always cheating. If a club had a kid playing up 4 years (a 10 year old playing with 14 year olds) it would be against the rules, but nobody would call that cheating. (Girls putting tape over their earrings is technically against the rules too, but if someone calls that cheating I give up)

    I'm not defending what they did, but it wasn't cheating. They were desperate and broke the rules so they didn't have to forfeit. That benefitted their own players and the opposition who got a game they wouldn't have. The only ones "hurt" were the ones who played two games in one day, and at this age and level that wasn't anything. I have zero affiliation with this club so it doesn't matter to me, but it does seem to me that everyone is focused on wins and losses here (even the punishment was losses), when at these ages it is meaningless. They were a Bronze team and unless the loss penalty knocked them out of first place (I don't know but doubt it did), if I were a parent on the team I'd probably say to myself that it was better to have had the games played for the experience and get the losses later than to have never played.

    Keep perspective people. These are 12/13 year old kids. We should want them playing games more than we want a 1-0 forfeit.

    I know the next argument is that the team should never have been formed. I know that is true, but sometimes it happens and you just have to get through the season. Time to put the pitchforks away.
     
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  16. xnd298

    xnd298 Bronze

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    Your semantics and compassion is all very fascinating but I think some more facts and additional perspective are in order.

    The 05 and 06 teams have 23 total players. They could have sat 1 player from the 06 team and used that player on the days when both teams played.
    Coast has continued to allow them use of the Player loan Program and that is what they have done for their remaining games.

    The 05 team lost players because they disliked the coach, the players left in July.
    I would dislike a coach that took my bronze team and put them in a high level tournament and then blasted the players as the game was going on when they were losing against dramatically better competition.
    http://events.gotsport.com/events/s...199&FieldID=0&applicationID=4760062&action=Go

    Now imagine you are a coach of a different team that has put in lots of time to avoid a scenario where you don't have enough players.
    Imagine a coach that has been pro active when things fall apart and the team lost players and you followed the rules and went out and did whatever was needed to get enough players.

    And on the other side, the Burbank coach that just convinces the teams parents and players, "hey, lets just not follow the rules and play these games".

    Is there any question, when comparing the two, about the type of individual we want coaching youth soccer ?

    Lets pretend the players on the opposing teams find out, what is the line of BS we would give them to make it all better ?

    Do we want the coach that openly pushes unethical behavior on this organizational level to be leading a group of 13 year olds ?
    Is that the person that we want espousing values ?
    If the coach had somehow not told the players and parents and they were unaware, that would sit better with me, but that wasn't the case here.

    "Its just Bronze".
    What a poorly thought out comment.
    Its just the proletariat, right ?

    Whether Bronze or DA, kids learning ethical behavior is far more important in life than what level of soccer they play, played or any Player Development Initiative that you have somehow skewed as more important.
     
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  17. SoccerFan4Life

    SoccerFan4Life Silver

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    X d298, you really are fired up over this. I agree with some of the others. It's just bronze!!!' It's not for a championship game either. It was not right but there will be worse things that you will see as the kids move up in flights and age. My dd's team plays with 6 players vs 7 and we would love to have another girl help us to give our girls a break. Sometimes we get another player and it makes a huge difference. (Scdsl rules). Sometimes teams don't mind playing us 6 v6 and other times they don't care and try to score as many goals as possible. Those parents wanted help and the coach bend the rules to help.

    This post has gone way too extreme.
     
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  18. xnd298

    xnd298 Bronze

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    The scenario you are describing is not an apples apples comparison, your team is completely transparent about it and this team had a way to follow the rules all along and play 11 v 11 and chose a different route.

    If the post is too much for you, by all means, stop following it.

    But I don't see anybody insulting anybody on here the way I have seen on other threads.
    Telling the player that approaches an adult when they overhear the other team talking about how they just broke the rules that its just bronze, I don't see that going over to well.

    Regardless of your personal view of it, the players want it to be fair.

    Your response is the view from a parent with a given view on the issue.

    The reaction I am relaying is from players and coaches in the league who frankly have a lot more physical work sunk in to a given season than a parent.

    You are free to continue viewing the scenario how you like, but asking players who have sunk a lot more in to competing in a given season to let it go, when they know the other team broke a rule, what effect does that have on them ?

    Losing or winning, not important in the grand scheme.

    Breaking rules to try and win when you could not break rules and still play, I am ok with a player having a problem with that.
     
  19. LASTMAN14

    LASTMAN14

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    I do believe you referred to yourself in third person.
     
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  20. Holliday88

    Holliday88 Bronze

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    I agree with SoccerFan4Life, you are way too fired up about this. Unless you are a parent on that team (Burbank) I really can't understand why you are spending time researching how many players they have, what they are doing, etc.

    If they had 05's playing on the '06s then sure, go for it. But c'mon man, move on. They screwed up (minorly) and you want the Spanish inquisition.
     

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