Do ref complaints matter?

baldref said:
OK. OK....... I'll stick to the littles from now on.
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In the fall I would be fine with 6-7 of those 7v7 games as a single ref every other Saturday. $300+ and the teams get a State Ref. Win-win for everyone.
 
Surfref said:
... The other dad got to leave after I gave a Caution (Yellow card) DOGSO (denying an obvious goal scoring opportunity). Dad yelled at me, “Are you stupid? That was denying a goal and a red card.” Coach said, “I got this” and sent dad to the parking lot. After the game the coach apologized to me and said, “I wish we didn’t have any of the fathers at the games. It would be so much quieter and enjoyable.”
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The unfortunate thing here is the next time this Dad see's a DOGSO (but outside the box) and a red card is given he is going to be so confused and probably yell and scream and kick, not realizing the triple punishment justification for yellow in the box and red outside the box. Then when the DOGSO is for a "holding, pulling or pushing" in the box and a red card is given, the poor guy's head will explode and some kid will be fatherless.
 
MWN said:
The unfortunate thing here is the next time this Dad see's a DOGSO (but outside the box) and a red card is given he is going to be so confused and probably yell and scream and kick, not realizing the triple punishment justification for yellow in the box and red outside the box. Then when the DOGSO is for a "holding, pulling or pushing" in the box and a red card is given, the poor guy's head will explode and some kid will be fatherless.
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So that is why we go through all of the training every year, to make the calls that will cause some Soccer Crazy dad’s head to explode.
 
MWN said:
The unfortunate thing here is the next time this Dad see's a DOGSO (but outside the box) and a red card is given he is going to be so confused and probably yell and scream and kick, not realizing the triple punishment justification for yellow in the box and red outside the box. Then when the DOGSO is for a "holding, pulling or pushing" in the box and a red card is given, the poor guy's head will explode and some kid will be fatherless.
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And if you showed your post to 98% of parents, and 80% of coaches that are yelling at referees, they would have no idea what this means.
Surfref said:
So that is why we go through all of the training every year, to make the calls that will cause some Soccer Crazy dad’s head to explode.
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Yes, that makes it all worth it!
 
I love how technology make parents feel empowered... will this video show a ref who made a bad call? Spare the world those stupid videos. Instead teach the kids on how to navigate through life’s obstacles and how to deal with adversity. Teach the kids to take matters into their own hands by playing the type of game that produce results. Be positive and stop looking for excuses
 
Toch said:
I love how technology make parents feel empowered... will this video show a ref who made a bad call? Spare the world those stupid videos. Instead teach the kids on how to navigate through life’s obstacles and how to deal with adversity. Teach the kids to take matters into their own hands by playing the type of game that produce results. Be positive and stop looking for excuses
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In my opinion it is about safety not feeling empowered and if there is a ref that lets a game get out of control and kids are injured due to their indifference they should be called out (not at the field but in a game report). When a game has several injuries that take multiple kids out of the game, the ref is the likely source of mismanagement.
 
Fact said:
In my opinion it is about safety not feeling empowered and if there is a ref that lets a game get out of control and kids are injured due to their indifference they should be called out (not at the field but in a game report). When a game has several injuries that take multiple kids out of the game, the ref is the likely source of mismanagement.
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no.
as i've advocated many times, if there is a referee who "allows" a game to get out of control, probably more accurately, can't stop the game from getting out of control, then there's always a coach who could pull off rowdy players, or god forbid, players themselves who could just simply play soccer and not kickbox. i have yet to see a referee injure a player. I'm not saying there isn't an instance when a small amount of culpability might be laid on a referee who doesn't take action for a very high temperature game, but at no time is a referee encouraging players to hurt each other.

I had two injuries in a game recently. one was likely a broken wrist when a player was pushed out of bounds and fell poorly on his wrist. it was foul, not a caution, just a foul. the other injury was two players kicking the same ball very forcefully. one player had a serious knee injury from the force. was i "likely the source of mismanagement"?
 
Fact said:
In my opinion it is about safety not feeling empowered and if there is a ref that lets a game get out of control and kids are injured due to their indifference they should be called out (not at the field but in a game report). When a game has several injuries that take multiple kids out of the game, the ref is the likely source of mismanagement.
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Yes 110%. The ref doesn't cause a team to play dirty -- but they can enable the team to KEEP playing dirty, raising the odds of serious injury.
 
TangoCity said:
Yes 110%. The ref doesn't cause a team to play dirty -- but they can enable the team to KEEP playing dirty, raising the odds of serious injury.
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enable a team to keep playing dirty....... no. not really.
a referee can only punish infractions and penalize misconduct. if the team still wants to act like thugs, they still can.
 
baldref said:
enable a team to keep playing dirty....... no. not really.
a referee can only punish infractions and penalize misconduct. if the team still wants to act like thugs, they still can.
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Oh come on. Safe, fun, fair. It is the duty of the referee crew to provide a safe, fun and fair game. If the game is not safe they can talk to, caution and or remove players/coaches. If they are unwilling to use these tools then they are ENABLING the team to keep playing dirty and become complicit in the problem -- AN UNSFAFE GAME!
 
TangoCity said:
Oh come on. Safe, fun, fair. It is the duty of the referee crew to provide a safe, fun and fair game. If the game is not safe they can talk to, caution and or remove players/coaches. If they are unwilling to use these tools then they are ENABLING the team to keep playing dirty and become complicit in the problem -- AN UNSFAFE GAME!
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Wow! You must’ve just learned that word from some self help book and couldn’t wait to use it
 
baldref said:
enable a team to keep playing dirty....... no. not really.
a referee can only punish infractions and penalize misconduct. if the team still wants to act like thugs, they still can.
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The issue arises when the referee doesn't punish infractions and penalize misconduct. I assume you are unfamiliar with that since it never happens in the games you referee.
 
The responsibility for game play falls first on the players. Players have a duty to play in a "careful" manner and respect their opponents. When a player plays in a "careless" manner a foul occurs. When a players plays in a "reckless" manner a caution should be awarded. When a player is violent or intends to injure another player ... they are sent off. The referee's response is reactionary to a past event.

Second, it falls on the coach. The temperament of a team is directly proportional to the temperament of the coach. Coaches that vocally challenge and chastise players who display careless or reckless play and support the referee crew are the good ones and fulfilling their obligation to ensure play within the rules. Coaches that challenge referee calls (and parents) create additional motivation for the players to play in a careless and/or reckless manner. The technical term used for these coaches and parents is "IA" (irresponsible assholes)

The referee is the last defense ... kinda like a goal keeper. Empowered to stop the nonsense and manage the game BECAUSE the players and coaches have failed in their obligations.
 
MWN said:
The referee is the last defense ... kinda like a goal keeper. Empowered to stop the nonsense and manage the game BECAUSE the players and coaches have failed in their obligations.
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and my point is, that there are no guarantees that cards, send offs, etc., cures all ills. the responsibility lies with the coaches, players, and the parents of the players.

also, as has been mentioned repeatedly in this thread, at younger ages, and on lower level games, the referee might not be experienced enough to know exactly how to manage thuggery.
 
espola said:
The issue arises when the referee doesn't punish infractions and penalize misconduct. I assume you are unfamiliar with that since it never happens in the games you referee.
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i assume you are unfamiliar with intelligence since you have never displayed it on these boards.
 
Fact said:
In my opinion it is about safety not feeling empowered and if there is a ref that lets a game get out of control and kids are injured due to their indifference they should be called out (not at the field but in a game report). When a game has several injuries that take multiple kids out of the game, the ref is the likely source of mismanagement.
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I agreed with your initial statement about safety, but not about your assertion that multiple injuries are the refs fault. Too many people blame the Referee for injuries that the referee had no control over. Sure if there is A player that commits a dangerous tackle and the referee does not give a card and it happens again and someone is hurt than it may fall on the referee as the one at fault, but the layer is still also responsible for the dangerous tackle. I had a game last week that resulted in four bad injuries, two players going to the hospital via ambulance, another taken by POV to the ER and a forth that probably should have gone to the ER. None of them were the Referee team’s fault.

Injury 1 & 2 were from from a ball out in the open that two players ran at full speed to get and kicked it at the same time. Result was complete tib/fib break and ambulance ride for player 1 and broken wrist for player 2. Completely clean play. Injury 3 was the keeper diving to make a save hit his head on the goalpost and had to leave the game with concussion symptoms. No fault of the Referee. Injury 4 and second ambulance was a player taking off in a sprint to catch a through ball tore his Achilles’ tendon (it rolled up into his calf. No fault of the referee.
 
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