NorCalSoccerDad
BRONZE
Sounds like MLS has given up on Kitman Labs and is going back to Modular 11 asap..
Youth Soccer Rankings ?
- Thread starter dawson
- Start date
RandomSoccerFan
PREMIER
Again - you haven't posted the team or told anyone about the problem. Which club or team manager is signing up two different rosters under the same name in the same league? How would you resolve this?
There's no way SR can account for this. It's an automated process. If two results are reported for the same team (club / age group / level / coach) then they will be considered the same team.
SurfSupDude
SILVER
For those complaining about Surf Cup brackets…
SurfSupDude
SILVER
To add to the above…
I don't think it's just that Surf Cup bracketed teams well this year. They also have a large amount of teams to bracket.
Many of the smaller tournamants have to play the teams that signed up. Meaning if you only have 5 teams signed up to play in your tournament + 3 are tier one and 2 are tier three it wouldn't make sense to not just play what's available even if you know that several teams are going to get shelled.
Personally I like tournamants with a wide variety of teams playing. Yes, I know some of the teams are going to get worked. But, when they play better teams they'll get a better understanding about what it takes to play at the highest level. Also it sets up for Cinderella team situations which is fun.
Many of the smaller tournamants have to play the teams that signed up. Meaning if you only have 5 teams signed up to play in your tournament + 3 are tier one and 2 are tier three it wouldn't make sense to not just play what's available even if you know that several teams are going to get shelled.
Personally I like tournamants with a wide variety of teams playing. Yes, I know some of the teams are going to get worked. But, when they play better teams they'll get a better understanding about what it takes to play at the highest level. Also it sets up for Cinderella team situations which is fun.
RandomSoccerFan
PREMIER
Arguing in favor of poorly attended or poorly bracketed tournaments is lunacy. We all have a limited number of weekends - why waste them on tournaments that care so little for their customers that they don't bracket properly. Every team should want to play teams as good or better than them - but they would want to have a chance. At some point the tournament ranking will be more automated (either in SR, or elsewhere), and it will be easier to see which tournaments are doing this well when a club or team is considering their options.
It makes sense because sometimes teams from different leagues or different geographies are ranked higher or lower because they never play each other or teams that play each other.
In the example I provided the 3 top tier teams will most likely beat the lower level teams + end up facing the better teams during the tournamant.
Usually nothing changes, the higher ranked teams end up the winners.
Is playing a couple of games where 9 times out of 10 a certain team will win a bad thing? Not really, it's an easy confidence booster for the better team and an eye opener for the worse team.
As long as the tournamant isn't gifting better teams a path the finals or specifically making it impossible for certain teams to advance its fine.
I’ve watched several games where one team is predicted to win by 7 or 8 points. It’s not a wonderful cinderella story where the plucky upstarts pull of a stunning upset by reaching deep and finding something they didn’t know they had. That’s a Hallmark movie.
The real game is a smackdown where the stronger team puts the weaker team in their place, followed by a hackfest because the losing team is frustrated.
RandomSoccerFan
PREMIER
You continue to misunderstand both the relative accuracy and the usefulness of ratings for teams from different geographies that have no common opponents.
Fair, but why do it for any reason. Good teams don't need an easy game where they are learning nothing. Bad teams don't need to be shellacked to understand that they are bad.
maestroFRSM
SILVER
Our DOC determines all that. I don’t think he (rightly) gives a damn about SR
RandomSoccerFan
PREMIER
Sure - but misnaming his teams is a sign of a poorly run club, and is shortchanging the players and the parents (who are paying him). None of it has anything to do with SR.
maestroFRSM
SILVER
Agree, pointing out real world limitations not asking for a solution
maestroFRSM
SILVER
Lol. You’re really clueless. Stick to the math behind SR.
RandomSoccerFan
PREMIER
You can admit that your club is iffy at any point. Not caring about team names is typical in low-rent or poorly managed clubs. Playing multiple teams under the same name is not an SR issue - it's just bad management.
maestroFRSM
SILVER
Nope. Again. Clueless. Low-rent? The teams, including from this example, are at the very top of MLS Next standings.
I’m not faulting SR, or saying this is an SR issue, just pointing out a real world limitation.
For you to make wild assumptions about the quality of a team or DOC is hilarious- that’s why I suggest you stick to the math algorithms behind SR.
RandomSoccerFan
PREMIER
So which MLS Next team has incorrect ratings due to this? We can all look at them together and confirm one way or the other.
RandomSoccerFan
PREMIER
Ratings system are going to vary here. For SR - it doesn't matter a whit whether the team is 2012, 2010, or 2008. The only thing that matters is the team entity itself. It's potentially possible that a team that enters as a different age might have to be brought together manually by someone who knows the team background - but if the name is identical regardless of the age switch it might not be necessary. A team will be ranked higher (but will have the same, identical rating), whether they are classified as a younger age or an older age. The age brackets generally have a 3-5 average rating score between them as you go up the brackets.
Others are as seamless, while others completely segregate the age groups and there really isn't a way to compare/contrast.
What you’re really saying is that someone in the top half of MLS Next doesn’t need SR to find matches. Word of mouth is just fine for a tiny universe. Very few teams play at that level, and 95% of them are already in his league. So he keeps track of the 20-30 teams which matter, and ignores the rest.
That system breaks down as soon as the DOC’s club needs to flight a tournament with mid level brackets. I’d be very surprised if the DOC flights an 800 team tournament just based on his gut. More likely, he turns it over to someone else who uses league records, SR, and so on.
RandomSoccerFan
PREMIER
Here are the top 10 for 2007B MLS Next. For most of them, their rating matches very closely with their performance. For 2 or 3, they have a significant number of games that they are both overperforming and underperforming. Maybe it's because of rosters, maybe it's due to the team being up and down, maybe there's no actual explanation. But for most - either they are naming the team properly or it doesn't really matter.
