Every school claims they take a "holistic" approach. I'm a bit skeptical, IMO I think it primarily depends on if you strike a chord with the individual application reviewer based upon her/his/they's own biases. (that's assuming you're meeting the minimum objective requirements for entry).
Wynalda Perspective on US Soccer
- Thread starter watfly
- Start date
RandomSoccerFan
GOLD
I'm not the sharpest crayon in the box, but if I'm reading correctly - you may be misinterpreting her post, and you are in fact both actually agreeing more than disagreeing. Her intent was "If that were true, math majors that are less comfortable....." She was implying that it wasn't true.
But the main point is that the essays aren't a huge differentiator, even at the very top level of applicants/schools. If you look at 50 of them, in reality, you can't separate them into 50 different measurable levels of worthiness. Most are perfectly fine. A handful are memorable. And a handful are pretty bad. In the hypothetical you laid out, with identical candidates in every potential category except a noticeable difference on the essay, you're right - the kids with the better essay should get the spot. It's just not that common an occurrence.
True, which is where sockmas writing ability also has a point. Even the readers though have limitations. There are informal quotas at the top schools (and no not just by dei) that cap the number of particular majors (prelaw premed music), states (easier from the dakotas than ny/ca), sports and art slots, and schools (Harvard could accept its entire class from Harvard Westlake on the west coast and Philips Andover on the east but they won’t because diversity). The reader also can’t wave a wand and solve my music student problem I talked about or create a marine biology slot if there isn’t one.
There is an art to it and you get better with practice, and in addition the algorithm will get better all the time. Trust me, college and high school kids are using it right now, and whatever apps are out there to supposedly catch them aren't catching them. For now it is free, but once everyone gets hooked it will come with a cost and the digital divide will grow larger once again.
Students + chatgpt will figure out what tools colleges are using to figure out if the essay was AI generated or not + why.
Then they'll both modify it enough to get past the tools used to identify fakes.
Even now students are likely using AI tools to create an essay then rewriting it + but keeping the overall structure.
Just a story, and not saying it is common, but my buddy's son had his Ivy League (Princeton I recall) in person interview. Apparently, one of the first questions he was asked by the interviewer was do you know who I am. The kid said no and said something to the effect that he wanted to come into the interviewer without any preconceived notions (obviously that was the wrong move). Apparently, the interviewer was offended and the interviewer ended the interview fairly quickly. He just graduated Dartmouth, and has a sweet job in NYC.
if it were anyone else, I'd probably agree with you but Grace likes to argue one minute aspect of things over and over again as though it represents the whole entire picture. I was pointing out to her why her argument about essays aren't true, even for math majors.
Yes, most colleges look at applicants with a holistic approach and while I agree it doesn't occur very often, it actually does happen for the last few applicants. When admitting 3000 students, the first 2900 are easy. The last 100 will come down to minute differences.
The devil is in the minutia. “Close enough” is insufficient in more things than just math. If you had qualified your argument to the last 100 from the get go, I would have agreed with you but pointed out the same applied to the interview, if there was one.
One of the first things the private counselors tell their clients is google your interviewer.
Middle schoolers are using it....
When that first started to happen, it creeped me out. The first time a candidate asked about how I like working at some-place and if I knew so-and-so, the parent of a friend of theirs, I was sincerely taken aback. Then it normalized. (But I agree that asking "do you know who I am?" is a little much.)
From my vantage point, as an interviewer who sees applications and writes a recommendation but has no insight into the actual decision process, this seems pretty close to the truth. Except for a few obvious duds (candidates that don't seem to even want to go to the school) all the kids I interview are amazing and I would be proud to have them as classmates. Yet almost none of them get in. I've given up trying to guess which ones will because my track record is so abysmal.
Have to stroke the academic elites' ego.
RandomSoccerFan
GOLD
I wouldn't let them know that during the interview; they'll scramble to find an additional local interviewer that has better luck.
I don't do local interviews, but my wife enjoys them and has been doing them for years. It's a relatively low effort but effective way to stay close with the school on the other side of the country. It also helps in understanding both what the typical top student applicants have been focusing on over the years, along with learning what tends to be have a more successful admissions outcome. But she's with you - vast majority of the kids that get to her are beyond impressive, and all but a small fraction still get a skinny letter, but it's probably an email these days as well. I hope they don't use emojis.
Tyler Durden
BRONZE
Best way to get into these elite institutions is to be a family legacy applicant or be connected with an elite donor. Those that write woke essays at least have qualifications to get in.
Timextouches
BRONZE
My kid played on a top 10 club team and also grew up playing all over San Diego in random sunday leagues and pick up games all over the place. In all kinds of neighborhoods with all kinds of kids. The second a good kid showed up, from whatever background, they’d be on a club team within days. For free. With a coach or assistant coach or another parent picking them up. Great players don’t get overlooked and money ends up not mattering.
Do some kid who could end up being good get missed because of finances and transport? Sure.
do some kids from rough backgrounds end up not making it because they don’t have structure, support, nutrition, etc? Sure.
but we saw so so so so so so so many kids show up to a Sunday league, dominate, and get snatched up by surf nomads Albion within days. Uniform cleats fees etc all handled.
The biggest issue isn’t getting seen and scooped up. It’s the structure to get that player to the highest level. But that’s not just a family issue, clubs are horrid at personal and soccer development. And that’s true for the kid from a wealthier background too.
I get what wynalda is saying and pay to play has all sorts of problems and issues. I agree. But to think that some star is toiling on a dirt field for years and never discovered or tok poor to play club fees is not accurate. Pay to play and predatory clubs and just trash humans coaching club soccer should be fixed tho. Not sure how.
Do some kid who could end up being good get missed because of finances and transport? Sure.
do some kids from rough backgrounds end up not making it because they don’t have structure, support, nutrition, etc? Sure.
but we saw so so so so so so so many kids show up to a Sunday league, dominate, and get snatched up by surf nomads Albion within days. Uniform cleats fees etc all handled.
The biggest issue isn’t getting seen and scooped up. It’s the structure to get that player to the highest level. But that’s not just a family issue, clubs are horrid at personal and soccer development. And that’s true for the kid from a wealthier background too.
I get what wynalda is saying and pay to play has all sorts of problems and issues. I agree. But to think that some star is toiling on a dirt field for years and never discovered or tok poor to play club fees is not accurate. Pay to play and predatory clubs and just trash humans coaching club soccer should be fixed tho. Not sure how.
The ideal student-athlete applicant has good academic and test scores (within the established minimums for the school in question), is an elite athlete in their sport as recognized by state, regional, or national organizations, has a legacy hook to the school, and has parents wealthy enough that they want no more than a token scholarship in order to assure a spot on the roster.
That might be a scene from Risky Business, actually.
DennisBergkamp
BRONZE
Pay to play is a problem in the US as it is a problem everywhere else in the world. People pay more here, because they can afford it.
Real problem is the (Lack of) Quality in Coaching.
U10 Coaches planning their week to adapt to the opponent on the weekend
U7 Doing patterns and super closed tasks
When Winning is all, what happens when you lose?
People need to question why and what for they are playing sports. That is the real problem. And it is global, not just a US problem.
Real problem is the (Lack of) Quality in Coaching.
U10 Coaches planning their week to adapt to the opponent on the weekend
U7 Doing patterns and super closed tasks
When Winning is all, what happens when you lose?
People need to question why and what for they are playing sports. That is the real problem. And it is global, not just a US problem.