When two teams can advance to next round by just a draw....

twoclubpapa said:
Lots of discussion about both teams tanking it for a draw in order to advance. I had a situation twenty years ago where I had a coach inform me before a game that they would intentionally lose the game in order to play for the second place trophy since a win wouldn't advance them to the championship game under the tournament rules. Other team won 6-1. I put the comment in my match report and let the tournament competition authority figure out what they wanted to do. In a separate communication I recommended that in the future the tournament rules be modified so this situation would not reoccur.
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Why did you ask that the rules be modified? Take your time and think about it because I am reasonably certain you can’t offer a legitimate reason for doing so.
 
socalkdg said:
I pity both teams when college coaches are on the sideline watching a game like this. Always play like a scout is watching.
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I say, "play like it's your last game" but I'm a crazy sports junky and I never took a play off. This looks Bushy to me but I understand not wanting dd to get hurt trying to play sport. I tried to watch but stopped after 5 seconds.
 
twoclubpapa said:
Lots of discussion about both teams tanking it for a draw in order to advance. I had a situation twenty years ago where I had a coach inform me before a game that they would intentionally lose the game in order to play for the second place trophy since a win wouldn't advance them to the championship game under the tournament rules. Other team won 6-1. I put the comment in my match report and let the tournament competition authority figure out what they wanted to do. In a separate communication I recommended that in the future the tournament rules be modified so this situation would not reoccur.
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Noting the situation in the game report, and thus making it known to the tournament officials, makes more sense than handing out yellow cards.
 
twoclubpapa said:
Lots of discussion about both teams tanking it for a draw in order to advance. I had a situation twenty years ago where I had a coach inform me before a game that they would intentionally lose the game in order to play for the second place trophy since a win wouldn't advance them to the championship game under the tournament rules. Other team won 6-1. I put the comment in my match report and let the tournament competition authority figure out what they wanted to do. In a separate communication I recommended that in the future the tournament rules be modified so this situation would not reoccur.
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I don't see a problem with a team unilaterally deciding to put minimal effort if the game is a throw-away, especially with how grueling tournaments are. I still resent a certain coach who allowed my DD to injure herself (through over-exertion) in a meaningless game and then screamed at her in the final for not playing hard enough.

I think this also happens sometimes when the two teams have to play each other in group and will have to play each other in the final - though I think some tourneys will just let them just skip the group game in that instance. But an agreement, with quid pro quo, is the line where it stops being sport.
 
In the past one of my daughter's coaches told the team that only 1 player could go across the half field. They were playing for a draw against a better team and points mattered. The other team had much faster forwards and we packed the back. It was no fun to watch as we would get the ball then just play it for the 1 player to run onto and try and get through the whole defense alone.

There was an ECNL showcase about 7 years ago that both teams played for a draw. Literally staying on their own sides and the defenders passing the ball back and forth un-contested for 90 minutes. The college coaches were gone about 10 minutes into the game. Both teams did advance
 
SageMajor said:
The college coaches were gone about 10 minutes into the game.
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I could care less about a lame ass college coach leaving that wanted to be entertained by kids playing in adverse conditions; fuck them and let them kick rocks.

I’d be more interested in a college coach that cared about my kids development and personal well being.
 
mlx said:
I would say the scout would say "wow, they have great understanding of the tournament context! "
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And those coaches will be at the elimination round plus MANY more coaches. I'd rather see my child playing full force at the elimination game before A LOT of coaches then getting injured in a meaningless game in front of a few coaches.
 
Emma said:
And those coaches will be at the elimination round plus MANY more coaches. I'd rather see my child playing full force at the elimination game before A LOT of coaches then getting injured in a meaningless game in front of a few coaches.
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Doesn't this all sound so silly. Why have the game at all? What is being taught? How are the kids being developed? Cancel all meaningless games, send the kids to an ice bath and trainers, call it a day. Cracks me up. Gotta hand it to the tournmanent and club for maximizing their profit.
 
The problem with all of this is where does it end?

What I mean by "where does it end" is that if colluding about who wins is acceptable behaviour what's to stop coaches from calling each other as soon as the schedule is relayed and determing who will be the agreed to winner.

Take it a step further... If colluding is acceptable what's to stop coaches from paying other coaches $500 for a win.

This is why collusion in sports is an issue. It allows parties that arent participating in the game to determine the outcome of the game. It robs players of the accolades of all the effort they've gone through to get where they are.
 
what-happened said:
Doesn't this all sound so silly. Why have the game at all? What is being taught? How are the kids being developed? Cancel all meaningless games, send the kids to an ice bath and trainers, call it a day. Cracks me up. Gotta hand it to the tournmanent and club for maximizing their profit.
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I agree that it's a tournament rule issue. Kids are being taught to play hard when it counts and rest their bodies when it doesn't, or learning to play smart. If they use points earned in bracket in order to establish seeding for the elimination rounds, it may reduce these types of games.
 
MacDre said:
I could care less about a lame ass college coach leaving that wanted to be entertained by kids playing in adverse conditions; fuck them and let them kick rocks.

I’d be more interested in a college coach that cared about my kids development and personal well being.
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I missed what the adverse conditions were. Hopefully there were non-winning related reasons because the point of a showcase isn't to pick an ultimate winner: it exists to give the players a chance to show their stuff.
 
Carlsbad7 said:
The problem with all of this is where does it end?

What I mean by "where does it end" is that if colluding about who wins is acceptable behaviour what's to stop coaches from calling each other as soon as the schedule is relayed and determing who will be the agreed to winner.

Take it a step further... If colluding is acceptable what's to stop coaches from paying other coaches $500 for a win.

This is why collusion in sports is an issue. It allows parties that arent participating in the game to determine the outcome of the game. It robs players of the accolades of all the effort they've gone through to get where they are.
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I don't think anyone here is saying we would be allowing collusion between two coaches from two different teams. We are disagreeing on whether coaches and their teams can independently strategize and decide how to play an irrelevant game.
 
Woodwork said:
I missed what the adverse conditions were. Hopefully there were non-winning related reasons because the point of a showcase isn't to pick an ultimate winner: it exists to give the players a chance to show their stuff.
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In terms of “stuff,” decision making, courage, leadership, creativity and teamwork was displayed.
This reminds me of the debate I have with my cousin who hates Neymar because he flops. The same guy has no problem with a “defensive tactical foul.” The dude is a walking & talking contradiction.

I guess my point is that there is more to showing your “stuff” than going all gas no brake.
 
MacDre said:
In terms of “stuff,” decision making, courage, leadership, creativity and teamwork was displayed.
This reminds me of the debate I have with my cousin who hates Neymar because he flops. The same guy has no problem with a “defensive tactical foul.” The dude is a walking & talking contradiction.

I guess my point is that there is more to showing your “stuff” than going all gas no brake.
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So a scout goes out to watch a showcase game, sees 22 players casually passing the ball. He picks up his cell phone and calls the college team's manager and says, "Release everyone on the current squad and make room for 22. I found the most courageous, creative group of leaders and team players you have ever seen!"
 
Emma said:
I agree that it's a tournament rule issue. Kids are being taught to play hard when it counts and rest their bodies when it doesn't, or learning to play smart. If they use points earned in bracket in order to establish seeding for the elimination rounds, it may reduce these types of games.
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I don't know the details of the travel required to get to this tournament, but factor in cost and time wasted. It's a lose lose for most. Someone made $$$. I'm sure the refs wouldn't of minded trading in the dollars paid for covering the game for AC and some cocktails.
 
MacDre said:
In terms of “stuff,” decision making, courage, leadership, creativity and teamwork was displayed.
This reminds me of the debate I have with my cousin who hates Neymar because he flops. The same guy has no problem with a “defensive tactical foul.” The dude is a walking & talking contradiction.

I guess my point is that there is more to showing your “stuff” than going all gas no brake.
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How exactly are the players displaying these incredible traits? I know you are clearly joking and it is funny. The whole situation is funny and the joke is on the parents who paid to be there.
 
Woodwork said:
So a scout goes out to watch a showcase game, sees 22 players casually passing the ball. He picks up his cell phone and calls the college team's manager and says, "Release everyone on the current squad and make room for 22. I found the most courageous, creative group of leaders and team players you have ever seen!"
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I see your point. But it is also not only about going hard.
 
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