Vaccine

[GoldenGate]

But the studies Baldref. You just can't believe your eyes. You need someone smarter (or more emotional) than you to interpret reality for you.

You anti-vaxxers all live in opposite world. In fact, relying on your anecdotal "evidence" instead of actual medical and scientific studies is the very definition of emotional no matter how much you claim the opposite. See: When poignant stories outweigh cold hard facts: A meta-analysis of the anecdotal bias - ScienceDirect . Of course, morons like you completely ignore scientific studies based on your anecdotal "evidence", because it is the only place you can go to support the confirmation bias that you are looking for: Confirmation bias | Cram.

No one is surprised that the anti-vax/mask clown car crowd ignores studies and science because they're too emotional to understand what is happening, because that's who whiny Karens are. It's what you do.

 

[GoldenGate]

That is the difference between a scientist and someone looking for confirmation.

I see you're still trying to reason with clowns. How is that going for you? I mean, other than them just telling you they've now completely abandoned all studies relating to mask and vaccine mandates (not just the ones that haven't been peer reviewed) because they saw with their own eyes that their vaccinated and masked kids have gone to school and not gotten Covid-19.

 

[GoldenGate]

I'm not sure I follow the math, but that's on me. Nor do I believe breaking it out in time frames helps your argument. Clearly not for Omicron. For adults I think it has to do in part with age associated behavior. 65+ aren't generally in the workplace. 19-49 are in the workplace and more likely to be out in public, but most of all, more likely to be living with more housemates (roommates, children etc). Just way more points of exposure for that age group. Children are the wild card. Generally they are just less likely to get it overall, regardless of vaccination status. None of this changes the fact that the vaccinated get infected at a material rate, but I doubt its equal to the unvaccinated.

The reason I question the data, is because we all know that a lot of people tested negative (especially since Xmas) that didn't have any results recorded or reported. I think cases are grossly undercounted for both the vaccinated and unvaccinated. If you believe the vaccination prevents serious, treatment required, issues then I would imagine that the vaccinated have the most underreported cases.

I see. You disregard scientific studies because you "think" cases are grossly undercounted? That sounds very compelling. I do have a some quick questions about that. You also said that you will rely on what you see with your own eyes, right? So now you're telling us that you rely not only on what you see with your own eyes, but also what you don't see at all? In other words, you just make up whatever the fuck you want and reach whatever ridiculous conclusion you want so long as it is the opposite of what peer reviewed scientific study concluded? Unless the "scientific study" is a Tik tok that confirms your bias? What is one standard deviation from your anecdotal story and 330 million Americans anyway?

I do like your "scientific approach", so let's try it out. I have not seen a single student who has been fully vaccinated and wears their mask at school die of Covid, so they must work. I have also not seen a single student slash their wrists because they were such a snowflake that wearing masks was too much for them, so it must be complete and utter b.s. That settles that.

 

[soccersc]

You anti-vaxxers all live in opposite world. In fact, relying on your anecdotal "evidence" instead of actual medical and scientific studies is the very definition of emotional no matter how much you claim the opposite. See: When poignant stories outweigh cold hard facts: A meta-analysis of the anecdotal bias - ScienceDirect . Of course, morons like you completely ignore scientific studies based on your anecdotal "evidence", because it is the only place you can go to support the confirmation bias that you are looking for: Confirmation bias | Cram.

No one is surprised that the anti-vax/mask clown car crowd ignores studies and science because they're too emotional to understand what is happening, because that's who whiny Karens are. It's what you do.

still can’t find a case study or any articles related to Covid transmission huh!? Are you just going on anecdotal evidence? I haven’t seen any proof that there is a difference in transmission rates between the two,can you not support your bias?

 

[GoldenGate]

Don’t kid yourself..if you could find it you would have posted it. I find it interesting that during Delta you could find multiple studies showing how the unvaccinated spread the virus at a much more rapid pace, they were actually calling it the virus of the unvaccinated. But now, after Omicron, sidedly no case studies or research showing how unvaccinated and vaccinated spread the virus? Hmmm

They know they can’t post a study like that. If the transition rate is the same for vaccinated and unvaccinated they lose a big big arguement on mandated vaccination.

The first Omicron variant was detected three months ago in the US and there weren't enough cases and spread to even start a study until January. Yet here you are claiming two months later that it's perfectly fine to parade around unvaccinated and unmasked because there hasn't been a peer reviewed study in the mere two months that it even became possible to start conducting a study. Honestly, you are about as stupid as they get. So please tell me the exact day that this study should have been completed and peer reviewed to meet your "rigorous" standards? And how does the fact that a study hasn't been published in two months "prove" that there is no difference between vaccinated and unvaccinated? I feel like you let someone repeatedly hit you over the head with an Easton brand baseball bat because there hasn't been a scientific study proving that those brands will also give you a concussion, so surely you'll be fine. If there hasn't been a definitive study (which we know from your time here that you would disregard anyway because it does not fit your Karen-y emotional snowflake confirmation bias) yet to prove something is happening, it clearly isn't happening, right? And you know that because you've seen with your own microscopic eyes how Omicron is spread, right?

 

[soccersc]

The first Omicron variant was detected three months ago in the US and there weren't enough cases and spread to even start a study until January. Yet here you are claiming two months later that it's perfectly fine to parade around unvaccinated and unmasked because there hasn't been a peer reviewed study in the mere two months that it even became possible to start conducting a study. Honestly, you are about as stupid as they get. So please tell me the exact day that this study should have been completed and peer reviewed to meet your "rigorous" standards? And how does the fact that a study hasn't been published in two months "prove" that there is no difference between vaccinated and unvaccinated? I feel like you let someone repeatedly hit you over the head with an Easton brand baseball bat because there hasn't been a scientific study proving that those brands will also give you a concussion, so surely you'll be fine. If there hasn't been a definitive study (which we know from your time here that you would disregard anyway because it does not fit your Karen-y emotional snowflake confirmation bias) yet to prove something is happening, it clearly isn't happening, right? And you know that because you've seen with your own microscopic eyes how Omicron is spread, right?

You just make up dates and number whenever you want but you condemn others for how they perceive what is happening. How very Karen of you!! You are wrong about so many things in such a short port, it goes back to that poor education you have and your intellectual reasoning. The first Omicron case was the end of November, first of December, so you have bad math if you get months. December, January, February, and this is March, you aren’t very smart to get only 2 months later out of that…it sure didn’t take long for them to come out with Delta studies while Delta was spreading like crazy, but that fit the narrative and this doesn’t. Simple. Keep spinning, eventually you will get something right

 

[soccersc]

The first Omicron variant was detected three months ago in the US and there weren't enough cases and spread to even start a study until January. Yet here you are claiming two months later that it's perfectly fine to parade around unvaccinated and unmasked because there hasn't been a peer reviewed study in the mere two months that it even became possible to start conducting a study. Honestly, you are about as stupid as they get. So please tell me the exact day that this study should have been completed and peer reviewed to meet your "rigorous" standards? And how does the fact that a study hasn't been published in two months "prove" that there is no difference between vaccinated and unvaccinated? I feel like you let someone repeatedly hit you over the head with an Easton brand baseball bat because there hasn't been a scientific study proving that those brands will also give you a concussion, so surely you'll be fine. If there hasn't been a definitive study (which we know from your time here that you would disregard anyway because it does not fit your Karen-y emotional snowflake confirmation bias) yet to prove something is happening, it clearly isn't happening, right? And you know that because you've seen with your own microscopic eyes how Omicron is spread, right?

You know what even try to find a pre-print study…Good luck, it’s not there, or maybe it is and they pull it because it’s misinformation….like the data they tried to keep from you for 75 years until a judge said no…hmm, guess they don’t think you are smart enough to try and figure it out on your own, even they think you are stupid…lol

and I did a quick search to see how long it took for pre-print studies to come out after Delta…this study took from May and June and was printed the first of August…so how does your timeline work again? You really aren’t that bright, you do try though

Delta’s rise is fuelled by rampant spread from people who feel fine

People infected with the Delta variant generally do not have COVID-19 symptoms until two days after they start shedding the coronavirus.

www.nature.com

 

[GoldenGate]

You just make up dates and number whenever you want but you condemn others for how they perceive what is happening. How very Karen of you!! Uou are wrong about so many things in such a short email, it goes back to that poor education you have and your intellectual reasoning. The first Omicron case was the end of November, first of December, so you have bad math if you get months. December, January, February, and this is March, you aren’t very smart to get only 2 months later out of that…it sure didn’t take long for them to come out with Delta studies while Delta was spreading like crazy, but that fit the narrative and this doesn’t. Simple. Keep spinning, eventually you will get something right

Uh, two months ago from today was Jan 11. Omicron did not become the dominant strain in the U.S. until late December. It wasn't even possible to start a study to address the impact of vaccinations until

But, yes, of course you will dispute how long two months ago was. Do you always decide that the most reckless course of action is perfectly accepable until a definitive peer reviewed study has come out?

 

[GoldenGate]

You know what even try to find a pre-print study…Good luck, it’s not there, or maybe it is and they pull it because it’s misinformation….like the data they tried to keep from you for 75 years until a judge said no…hmm, guess they don’t think you are smart enough to try and figure it out on your own, even they think you are stupid…lol

and I did a quick search to see how long it took for pre-print studies to come out after Delta…this study took from May and June and was printed the first of August…so how does your timeline work again? You really aren’t that bright, you do try though

Delta’s rise is fuelled by rampant spread from people who feel fine

People infected with the Delta variant generally do not have COVID-19 symptoms until two days after they start shedding the coronavirus.

www.nature.com

BTW dumbfuck, preliminary research has shown that vaccination has been shown to offer protection against contracting Omicron.

Latest on Omicron Variant and COVID-19 Vaccine Protection | National Institutes of Health (NIH)
Three vaccine doses give 86% efficacy against Omicron variant (openaccessgovernment.org)
How Effective Are COVID-19 Vaccines Against Omicron? (healthline.com)
COVID-19 vaccines induce immune response to Omicron | National Institutes of Health (NIH)

If you read those articles (you won't), they say that scientists are still working on exactly how well the vaccines protect against infection. But continue to ignore reality. Surely, they are wrong because you saw with your own eyes that kids who got vaccinated and wear masks did not contract Omicron, so of course kids should do neither.

 

[soccersc]

BTW dumbfuck, preliminary research has shown that vaccination has been shown to offer protection against contracting Omicron.

Latest on Omicron Variant and COVID-19 Vaccine Protection | National Institutes of Health (NIH)
Three vaccine doses give 86% efficacy against Omicron variant (openaccessgovernment.org)
How Effective Are COVID-19 Vaccines Against Omicron? (healthline.com)
COVID-19 vaccines induce immune response to Omicron | National Institutes of Health (NIH)

If you read those articles (you won't), they say that scientists are still working on exactly how well the vaccines protect against infection. But continue to ignore reality. Surely, they are wrong because you saw with your own eyes that kids who got vaccinated and wear masks did not contract Omicron, so of course kids should do neither.

I have to construals remind myself to make sure I go very slow so I don’t lose you. Nobody is disputing the fact of protection anyway…you can’t get your moth off thatbong long enough to even remember the argument. The dispute is between the spread of the virus between the vaccinated and unvaccinated? How many times do I have to reiterate that with you before you realize they will never be able to distinguish that and if they do, they will see that it is going to be similar transition rates or vaccinated transmit it at a higher rare because they are often more asymptomatic and don’t realize they are even spreading the virus. Can you follow that smart guy?

 

[Hüsker Dü]

You anti-vaxxers all live in opposite world. In fact, relying on your anecdotal "evidence" instead of actual medical and scientific studies is the very definition of emotional no matter how much you claim the opposite. See: When poignant stories outweigh cold hard facts: A meta-analysis of the anecdotal bias - ScienceDirect . Of course, morons like you completely ignore scientific studies based on your anecdotal "evidence", because it is the only place you can go to support the confirmation bias that you are looking for: Confirmation bias | Cram.

No one is surprised that the anti-vax/mask clown car crowd ignores studies and science because they're too emotional to understand what is happening, because that's who whiny Karens are. It's what you do.

Hey when one reads it on Twitter (and it backs their already predetermined mindset) that means it passed the eye test.

 

[dad4]

I see you're still trying to reason with clowns. How is that going for you? I mean, other than them just telling you they've now completely abandoned all studies relating to mask and vaccine mandates (not just the ones that haven't been peer reviewed) because they saw with their own eyes that their vaccinated and masked kids have gone to school and not gotten Covid-19.

Reasoning with clowns? Yes. Keeps me entertained.

People all over are inclined to believe their own confirmation bias instead of actually gathering data. Nothing unique to this thread. Just how people are.

I could ask you whether ECNL’s style of play causes added knee injuries and concussions. You will say no, but there won’t be data behind it. Confirmation bias, but no data gathering. Same as the anti-vax loons, just a different topic.

Keep up the entertainment, and have a great day.

 

[watfly]

Not peer reviewed so don't get your knickers in a wad, but seems more consistent with reality. This is not based on protection from hospitalization, but protection from infection. Nobody is disputing that the vaccination provides significant protection against hospitalization, well that and Omicron has far milder symptoms.

Vaccine Effectiveness In The Omicron Wave

The US Omicron wave peaked in mid-January at around 800,000 new cases per day — more than three times higher than the previously largest peak (around 240,000 cases per day), which occurred almost exactly one year earlier.

www.forbes.com

Effectiveness of COVID-19 vaccines against Omicron or Delta infection

medRxiv - The Preprint Server for Health Sciences

www.medrxiv.org

"An even more recent study (that has not yet been peer-reviewed) was specifically designed to measure vaccine effectiveness against Omicron. This study found that a full two-dose course of mRNA vaccines failed to provide any measurable protection against infection with Omicron and that boosting with a third dose of an mRNA vaccine increased effectiveness against transmission back up to only 37%."

 

[espola]

Not peer reviewed so don't get your knickers in a wad, but seems more consistent with reality. This is not based on protection from hospitalization, but protection from infection. Nobody is disputing that the vaccination provides significant protection against hospitalization, well that and Omicron has far milder symptoms.

Vaccine Effectiveness In The Omicron Wave

The US Omicron wave peaked in mid-January at around 800,000 new cases per day — more than three times higher than the previously largest peak (around 240,000 cases per day), which occurred almost exactly one year earlier.

www.forbes.com

Effectiveness of COVID-19 vaccines against Omicron or Delta infection

medRxiv - The Preprint Server for Health Sciences

www.medrxiv.org

"An even more recent study (that has not yet been peer-reviewed) was specifically designed to measure vaccine effectiveness against Omicron. This study found that a full two-dose course of mRNA vaccines failed to provide any measurable protection against infection with Omicron and that boosting with a third dose of an mRNA vaccine increased effectiveness against transmission back up to only 37%."

"Our results may be confounded by behaviours that we were unable to account for in our analyses. Further research is needed to examine protection against severe outcomes."

 

[dad4]

Not peer reviewed so don't get your knickers in a wad, but seems more consistent with reality. This is not based on protection from hospitalization, but protection from infection. Nobody is disputing that the vaccination provides significant protection against hospitalization, well that and Omicron has far milder symptoms.

Vaccine Effectiveness In The Omicron Wave

The US Omicron wave peaked in mid-January at around 800,000 new cases per day — more than three times higher than the previously largest peak (around 240,000 cases per day), which occurred almost exactly one year earlier.

www.forbes.com

Effectiveness of COVID-19 vaccines against Omicron or Delta infection

medRxiv - The Preprint Server for Health Sciences

www.medrxiv.org

"An even more recent study (that has not yet been peer-reviewed) was specifically designed to measure vaccine effectiveness against Omicron. This study found that a full two-dose course of mRNA vaccines failed to provide any measurable protection against infection with Omicron and that boosting with a third dose of an mRNA vaccine increased effectiveness against transmission back up to only 37%."

No real surprise. They’ve been saying for a while now that against omicron the vaccines offer mild protection against infection, but robust protection against severe disease. Just one more piece of evidence for that.

 

[Grace T.]

Not peer reviewed so don't get your knickers in a wad, but seems more consistent with reality. This is not based on protection from hospitalization, but protection from infection. Nobody is disputing that the vaccination provides significant protection against hospitalization, well that and Omicron has far milder symptoms.

Vaccine Effectiveness In The Omicron Wave

The US Omicron wave peaked in mid-January at around 800,000 new cases per day — more than three times higher than the previously largest peak (around 240,000 cases per day), which occurred almost exactly one year earlier.

www.forbes.com

Effectiveness of COVID-19 vaccines against Omicron or Delta infection

medRxiv - The Preprint Server for Health Sciences

www.medrxiv.org

"An even more recent study (that has not yet been peer-reviewed) was specifically designed to measure vaccine effectiveness against Omicron. This study found that a full two-dose course of mRNA vaccines failed to provide any measurable protection against infection with Omicron and that boosting with a third dose of an mRNA vaccine increased effectiveness against transmission back up to only 37%."

My dad finally caught it. Despite being boosted, going around no where without an N95, and not really socializing except very rarely and outdoors and not during the relevant time period (we hadn't been around him in the relevant time period). We are at a loss for where he might have caught it...the market (well then even those N95s don't help), a lab to get his blood drawn (someone real contagious must have crossed there), the dog??? (even though they say dogs don't transmit to humans). So far only the sniffles on day 2 and no other symptoms (fingers crossed).

 

[GoldenGate]

I have to construals remind myself to make sure I go very slow so I don’t lose you. Nobody is disputing the fact of protection anyway…you can’t get your moth off thatbong long enough to even remember the argument. The dispute is between the spread of the virus between the vaccinated and unvaccinated? How many times do I have to reiterate that with you before you realize they will never be able to distinguish that and if they do, they will see that it is going to be similar transition rates or vaccinated transmit it at a higher rare because they are often more asymptomatic and don’t realize they are even spreading the virus. Can you follow that smart guy?

How many times do I have to tell you that you can't spread Covid if you don't have it? How many times do I have to tell you that even if a vaccinated person does have a breakthrough infection, it is less serious and they are not contagious for as long, so therefore they expose fewer people? How many times do I have to explain to you that unvaccinated morons are clogging up our healthcare system so badly that everyone is going to see somewhere between a 5 and 12 percent increase in health insurance costs, which is what Blue Shield is already telling employers. Honestly, I'd be fine if all you idiots would just homeschool and then die in the comfort of your own home instead of begging our healthcare providers for help and horse dewormer. The price of anti-vaxxer freedom should include having to pay for the stupidity of your fellow anti-vaxxers instead of making the rest of us pay for it.

Accordingly, virtually every health agency around continues to recommend getting vaccinated. Even you can understand that simple concept, right? You're claiming if one person has a breakthrough infection, that means they are equally likely to spread it as someone who isn't vaccinated, so it's pointless to get vaccinate.

 

[EvilGoalie 21]

No real surprise. They’ve been saying for a while now that against omicron the vaccines offer mild protection against infection, but robust protection against severe disease. Just one more piece of evidence for that.

If you guys are still discussing the age break down of VE vs omicron infection, IMO at lot of that could be related to +/- boosters and if I recall the data as shown was not broken out that way. Just categories of two pop or non-vaxx. For J&J and Moderna, the youngers are not booster recommended, so they will show a more comparable infection/100K than olders you have had their circulating Abs spiked up again through a booster. Take rate on boosters probably higher with olders too. With the antigenic drift on omicron need a higher titer to neutralize.

 

[baldref]

That is the difference between a scientist and someone looking for confirmation.

You're far more the latter than the former

 

[watfly]

My dad finally caught it. Despite being boosted, going around no where without an N95, and not really socializing except very rarely and outdoors and not during the relevant time period (we hadn't been around him in the relevant time period). We are at a loss for where he might have caught it...the market (well then even those N95s don't help), a lab to get his blood drawn (someone real contagious must have crossed there), the dog??? (even though they say dogs don't transmit to humans). So far only the sniffles on day 2 and no other symptoms (fingers crossed).

From my anecdotal survey, those that were boosted seemed to have milder symptoms than only the 2 shotters. Although the 2 shotters symptoms weren't awful.

 

[watfly]

This is a slightly different study. It doesn't look at effectiveness against infection but effectiveness against symptomatic disease. Similar results to other study two dose vaccine is not effective against Omicron, much better with booster although that wanes as well.

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2119451

It seems we have two camps in this forum. Pro-Vax Koolaid or Pro-Vax Realistic, although to team Kool-Aid, Pro-Vax Realistic is Anti-Vax. In hindsight, I feel like I would may have been better off with a booster.