MicPaPa
GOLD
I'll take that as a yes.
Vaccine
- Thread starter Multi Sport
- Start date
GoldenGate
GOLD
Ok. Most transmission takes place in the home. So compare in home transmission rates between vaccinated, unvaccinated, and partially vaccinated households.
In case you‘re wondering, someone already did the study. Turns out, the vaccine reduces transmission rates, just like the biology would predict:
Community transmission and viral load kinetics of the SARS-CoV-2 delta (B.1.617.2) variant in vaccinated and unvaccinated individuals in the UK: a prospective, longitudinal, cohort study
Vaccination reduces the risk of delta variant infection and accelerates viral clearance. Nonetheless, fully vaccinated individuals with breakthrough infections have peak viral load similar to unvaccinated cases and can efficiently transmit infection in household settings, including to fully...www.thelancet.com
Clearly it is not impossible to calculate. They did calculate it, and it passed peer review.
Which leaves you in the position of arguing “Yes, but that study isn’t actually valid. I am a person on a soccer forum, and that’s just a peer reviewed study in Lancet with multiple citations. They don’t know as much as I do.”
Peer review is over-rated, right soccersc? It's just "anyone can come up with some sort of study that tries to get as close as possible to calculate it accurately..." Anyway, all those scientists "shave each other's backs and share a tanning bed" like your buddy says right soccersc? Between him and crush you have some really great people on your side. You're a viking helmet away from some real credibility.
I like your @dad4 handle better than your @GoldenGate.... when you are @dad4 at least you speak with some intelligence
GoldenGate
GOLD
Nice try, but using a study from 2020 and the Delta variant isn't relatable in the least to Omicron! Try again
a study from UC Davis in 2021 showing viral loads to be the same....okay next
Viral Loads Similar Between Vaccinated and Unvaccinated People
A new study from the University of California, Davis, Genome Center, UC San Francisco and the Chan Zuckerberg Biohub shows no significant difference in viral load between vaccinated and unvaccinated people who tested positive for the delta variant of SARS-CoV-2. It also found no significant...www.ucdavis.edu
Uh, wow. I think you might be misunderstanding what words mean. Let's quote a few sentences out of your article.
- "Vaccines have been shown to be highly effective in preventing severe disease, hospitalization and death from COVID-19".
- "The findings underscore the continuing need for masking and regular testing alongside vaccination."
- "This study did not directly address how easily vaccinated people can get infected with [Covid], or how readily someone with a breakthrough infection can transmit the virus".
- "It's very important to get vaccinated....Mask-wearing and regular testing remain important, especially in areas of high prevalence."
How does this article help your anti-vax/anti-mask agenda again?
Ok. Most transmission takes place in the home. So compare in home transmission rates between vaccinated, unvaccinated, and partially vaccinated households.
In case you‘re wondering, someone already did the study. Turns out, the vaccine reduces transmission rates, just like the biology would predict:
Community transmission and viral load kinetics of the SARS-CoV-2 delta (B.1.617.2) variant in vaccinated and unvaccinated individuals in the UK: a prospective, longitudinal, cohort study
Vaccination reduces the risk of delta variant infection and accelerates viral clearance. Nonetheless, fully vaccinated individuals with breakthrough infections have peak viral load similar to unvaccinated cases and can efficiently transmit infection in household settings, including to fully...www.thelancet.com
Clearly it is not impossible to calculate. They did calculate it, and it passed peer review.
Which leaves you in the position of arguing “Yes, but that study isn’t actually valid. I am a person on a soccer forum, and that’s just a peer reviewed study in Lancet with multiple citations. They don’t know as much as I do.”
and by the way, your review actually agrees with me... "Nonetheless, fully vaccinated individuals with breakthrough infections have peak viral load similar to unvaccinated cases and can efficiently transmit infection in household settings, including to fully vaccinated contacts."
So one member of the family gets it from 1 unvaccinated person and then that vaccinated person goes home and spreads it to their family of 5...well, there you go...that is why trying to decipher how it is transmitted makes no sense...too many variable like I was telling you in the first place
You are changing the argument or more likely you forgot....stay off the gonga for a minute....I never said vaccinations don't help....your comprehension and retention is getting worse by the day...I know it is legal but it is affecting you in a bad way.
I will refresh your memory...@dad4 was saying you could calculate the transmission rate of unvaccinated and vaccinated...I said it is too difficult to get an accurate measure of transmission between the two groups.
You might want to pause on responding until you have read that a couple times to make sure you really understand what we are talking about so you don't write anymore irrelevant post
GoldenGate
GOLD
Wow, you lost the forest for the trees so badly that you apparently hit a proverbial oak branch hard enough to suffer traumatic brain injury. Do you even realize that you went down a rabbit hole that started with you claiming that wearing masks doesn't help avoid Covid transmission, and has now ended with you citing articles about how important it is to wear masks because transmission is not significantly impacted by vaccination?
LOL...hahaha...take a minute and read before another ripe...hahaha....I never have claimed anything about a mast...lol...and the article I sighted was from your alias @dad4 haha...maybe try to stay on one alias because you are getting confused between the two.
Once again, the argument is about how Covid spread between the vaccinated and unvaccinated...the problem is you can't find any data to support the fact that it can't be differentiated.
GoldenGate
GOLD
No, you started with your snowflake diatribe about how masks don't help reduce transmission rates and therefore they should not be required in schools because your emotionally feeble children can't handle wearing masks and they don't help anyway. But here you are now citing an article for the exact opposite because you completely lost the plot. So, let's start from the beginning. Can you tell me why the article you just cited is completely wrong, except for one thing you don't want it to be wrong again? You're a believe in science dim sum?
Sure. Same peak load, sustained for a shorter period. Both claims are quantified in the study.
How does that support your claim? You were saying it is impossible to estimate. It’s not impossible at all. They just did it. Not only did they demonstrate that the vaccine reduces transmission, they also quantified the size and timing of the effect.
Of course you can estimate, but how accurate is that really. Then you start getting into how many vaccinated people actually test if they are asymptotic, but yet those people can still spread the disease... or where did they actually get it in the first place because who really knows in most cases...and finally, with Omicron, it all changed because it was spread so easily between all people...that is why it becomes so difficult to differentiate if it was passed on by vaccinated or unvaccinated
Do you have any data showing how Omicron was spread between vaccinated and unvaccinated?
GoldenGate
GOLD
No, your argument was that your children are emotionally too soft to wear masks, but they shouldn't have to wear them anyway because they don't help. Go look at your anti-mask post nos. 13,537, 13545, 13,546, 13,552, 13,554, 13,560, 13,563, 13,575, and 13,576.
I do agree with you to the extent that your best play is to try to avoid talking about your anti-mask agenda again until people hopefully forget that you actually cited an article that is the exact opposite of your position.
You're a funny guy, but you keep me entertained...show me where I said mask don't help reduce transmission...let me help you, I never said that...lol...so good luck finding it! Anyway, what I did say was kids are affected by wearing mask socially and emotionally. I then said you have no idea about kids because you don't have any, so it is probably hard for you to understand how kids are being affected...but try and deflect, it is what you do
How accurate? Accurate enough to get published in a well respected peer reviewed journal, then cited by other researchers in the field. You can read the paper for the confidence interval if you need it.
Now, look at what you have. Repeating, for the 27th time, the fact that peak viral loads are the same between vax and unvax patients. Then, when someone mentions duration or probability of infection, you pretend to be unable to read that half of the sentence.
GoldenGate
GOLD
Uh, you're the one who cited the 2021 article to support your theory. Now you're telling us your study that you cited is not reliable because everything has changed?
Please answer the question! Stay focused!
During Omicron what was the difference in transmission between vaccinated and unvaccinated?
Let me know when you find something, because you wont
GoldenGate
GOLD
So you agree that wearing masks significantly reduces transmission rates and therefore Grace T(he unemployed) is an idiot?
Sometimes I have to remember I might be moving too fast for you...puff puff...That was an article explaining the Delta variant, and how viral loads are similar, the same conclusion was found in the article @dad4 posted. If viral loads are similar and Omicron spreads more rapidly and goes through vaccinated faster would it not be difficult to determine where it came from or where you contracted the disease? If you are unable to determine how you contracted the virus, how do you determine who you got it from?
I don't know if I would say significant, but I really don't care about mask wearing. What I do care about is that it is affecting kids in a negative way and they are in no danger of hospitalization or dieing from the disease. And as you have so clearly stated, those that are vaccinated have little risk of dying or getting hospitalized so let the kids be free.
But then again you thought it was a good idea to keep kids at home for a year and a half....now there are so many papers documenting how bad that was for kids academically and socially.
I’m not your research assistant. If you want to know the best current estimates for vaccinated transmission of omicron, go spend some time on pubmed.
You made the bogus claim that it is unknowable and impossible to estimate. I gave you a link to a study that shows how they do estimate it.
That’s the limit of my contribution. You made a bogus claim, and I shot it down.
GoldenGate
GOLD
I get it. You're ok killing adult teachers, admin stafff, coaches and students with serious health conditions, plus everyone they go home to at night (where you say it is "primarily spread"), because your children are too emotionally fragile to wear masks at school. It's a trade off, right? Masks do help avoid getting people killed, but that's the price of freedom?