Vaccine

[espola]

Awwww love you too. Hugs.

p.s. I did....it's not my fault no one ever produced a mask study to show their effect after two plus years and the best we have is the Bangladesh study showing no statistical effect of cloth masks on adults. It's funny too you seem to think C/B is suppose to give you a number at the end...it doesn't and a lot of it is a value judgement too.

C/B should give you some reasonable results. Numbers are one good way to do it. A simple list of factors is not good.

True story -- several years ago I served on a jury for a case where a truck driver was suing his former employer for interfering in his attempt to get another job. The plaintiff brought in an expert who did a numerical analysis based on the facts developed in testimony and showed a lost value of somewhere near $600,000 over 10 years. Handwaving factors such as emotional distress and damage to reputation and the like were not included. The defense brought in their own expert to show that the real damages were $0.

Soon after the trial, I attended a country club dinner for new members. At our table were seated a young lawyer and his wife. After listening to my story, he named both of the "experts".

 

[Grace T.]

C/B should give you some reasonable results. Numbers are one good way to do it. A simple list of factors is not good.

True story -- several years ago I served on a jury for a case where a truck driver was suing his former employer for interfering in his attempt to get another job. The plaintiff brought in an expert who did a numerical analysis based on the facts developed in testimony and showed a lost value of somewhere near $600,000 over 10 years. Handwaving factors such as emotional distress and damage to reputation and the like were not included. The defense brought in their own expert to show that the real damages were $0.

Soon after the trial, I attended a country club dinner for new members. At our table were seated a young lawyer and his wife. After listening to my story, he named both of the "experts".

1. you'd need an accurate masking study. The best we have is Bangladesh which showed no statistical significance. So your starting point on the analysis is zero or near zero. You'd then need to know, what the surgicals would do, given that they aren't fitted, as well as the counterfeit KN95s. There is no data for that.
2. Ultimately you can't get a number because some of the factors don't have them (such as the cost of torturing an autistic child).
3. That's why they call those damages you referred to in the case "actual damages". They aren't the only type of damage. Whether you are entitled to other forms of damages depends on what's attached under law to the particular cause of action (whether in tort or in contract).

 

[soccersc]

You weren’t going to get any politician to give you a probability explanation for how vaccines slow transmission. Politicians are trying to communicate with average people, and average people like to think in absolutes. The mask works, or it doesn’t. You trust your vaccine or you don’t.

Look at how many people here read “can still spread the virus, at some rate”, and conclude “the vaccine has no effect on transmission. The first statement is true, but blurry. The second is false, but absolute. But people like the absolute, so most people here believe the second version, even though it is false.

Biden’s “Dead end to the virus” is false, but it is closer to the truth than the right wing’s repeated claim of equal transmission rates.

Are you saying if you are vaccinated you have a small risk to spread the virus? I wonder if the AMA agrees with you.....

With breakthrough infections, the viral loads are similar to those who are unvaccinated. That means such infections among fully immunized patients could be transmitted to others who are unvaccinated or have compromised immune systems.

Just because hospitalizations and case counts are lower for vaccinated doesn't mean they don't spread the virus at the same rate, I thought we established that already

What doctors wish patients knew about breakthrough COVID infections

The rapid spread of the SARS-CoV-2 Omicron variant has led to more fully vaccinated patients acquiring COVID-19. Learn why that happens and how boosters help.

www.ama-assn.org

 

[EvilGoalie 21]

My World War 2 hero isn’t a general. It’s a gay mathematician named Alan Turing.

Be glad Turing read his textbooks. His decryption work is the reason Eisenhower and Montgomery knew the German troop movements, often before the German troops themselves. Turing‘s work saved million of lives and took years off the war.

Alan Turing - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Turing's work on developmental patterning is still relevant today. The biology is still trying to catch up.

 

[Hüsker Dü]

Yawn. Covidian.

You being the one clawing and scratching soooo desperately to disprove what the majority of the world sees as proven and/or evolving science seem to me to be the poster child covidian maximus.
This reminds me of those that immerse themselves in everything trump (although often claiming to wish to disavow themselves of him) that call out those that mention him as suffers of TDS when in reality they are the ones afflicted with an obsession that can’t be sated nor informed.

 

[Hüsker Dü]

The Covid Survival Rate I’ve always referred to is Cases V Deaths.

Understanding the “collateral damage” of WW2, but they weren’t actively involved in the battle. If you’d like to further drill down categories of excess mortality of WW2 in order to include some of them, OK but we would have to agree on them, not just lump them in.

So do we include people who died due lack of available hospital beds/physicians?

 

[EvilGoalie 21]

With breakthrough infections, the viral loads are similar to those who are unvaccinated.

Depends on how you quantify loads. Genome copy # via PCR does not correlate with infectivity. Gotta look at the titer.

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2022.01.10.22269010v1.full.pdf

 

[soccersc]

So do we include people who died due lack of available hospital beds/physicians?

spin me right round…lol…did the virus come from China? Where we at now is the question

 

[Grace T.]

You being the one clawing and scratching soooo desperately to disprove what the majority of the world sees as proven and/or evolving science seem to me to be the poster child covidian maximus.
This reminds me of those that immerse themselves in everything trump (although often claiming to wish to disavow themselves of him) that call out those that mention him as suffers of TDS when in reality they are the ones afflicted with an obsession that can’t be sated nor informed.

You don't even realize you just used proven and evolving science in the same sentence. That's a real poor attempt at some first class gaslighting. Again, espola does it better.

 

[espola]

My World War 2 hero isn’t a general. It’s a gay mathematician named Alan Turing.

Be glad Turing read his textbooks. His decryption work is the reason Eisenhower and Montgomery knew the German troop movements, often before the German troops themselves. Turing‘s work saved million of lives and took years off the war.

Alan Turing - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

On the other ocean, Commander Joe Rochefort, while heading an intelligence unit based in Hawaii charged with decrypting Japanese radio intercepts, told Admiral Nimitz when, where (Midway), and with a good estimate the size of the force with which the Japanese would next attack. Nimitz went out and turned the tide of the war in the Pacificc.

Meanwhile, Admiral King, in charge of the Navy in Washington, believed a different story produced by OP-20-G, the big boys in Naval Intelligence. The reality of the Midway operation was so embarrassing to King and his staff that Rochefort was assigned to command a floating dry dock in San Francisco for the rest of the war.

 

[Hüsker Dü]

His exact words were, that vaccinated people essentially become “dead ends” for the virus to spread.

So I must correct my statement.

touché

And what did lack of vax do for the virus?

 

[Kicker 2.0]

The right wing anti-vax movement gave us an extra 200K deaths during delta. I see the cost. What was the benefit?

You keep saying “cost benefit analysis“, so let’s do some. What bad things would have happened if the red third of the country had gotten their covid shots before delta hit?

Prove it!

 

[Hüsker Dü]

So Biden, CNN and MSNBC were also guilty of spreading misinformation?

Which do you prefer, misinformation siding with safety and health concerns or misinformation siding with increased infection, hospitalizations, possible long term effects and death? Oh wait, never mind.

 

[Kicker 2.0]

And what did lack of vax do for the virus?

About the same a a lack of communication that 10 to 20 min of exercise a day severely reduces the likelihood of severe Covid.
Inactive people were 226% more likely to contract sever Covid than those who exercised at least 150 min per week.

 

[Kicker 2.0]

So do we include people who died due lack of available hospital beds/physicians?

Yah…but adjust the short staffing for all those medical workers that were fired who worked 18 hr shifts during the height of the pandemic.

 

[crush]

Awwww love you too. Hugs.

I love seeing the love and hugs too You rock Grace T. You shine bright!

 

[Brav520]

Which do you prefer, misinformation siding with safety and health concerns or misinformation siding with increased infection, hospitalizations, possible long term effects and death? Oh wait, never mind.

a lot to unpack here

but essentially lying from government is good as long as it’s deemed siding with safety and health concerns

quite a slippery slope here

 

[baldref]

Public health has torn its reputation to shreds. It's produced one garbage study after another acting as a propaganda arm. It has failed to do risk assessment. It has acted in a blatant political manner. It's been repeatedly shown to be wrong. Don't feel sorry for the disillusioned. Be concerned with why public health did this and how it's ever going to fix this, particularly if in our lifetimes we need it again. It's reputation is in the toilet...if we get another 10 years down the road (as you have articulated a fear of) what do you think is going to happen?

This is probably the most disappointing thing about the entire Covid experience to me. I now have zero confidence in the CDC, FDA, NIH, and HHS, and local health agencies.. They are political entities and not at all concernced about what is best for as what dad called us "average people". They have all failed miserably and the political and money based bias is blatantly clear to me. My opinion, and unlike others here, I'm not presenting my opinions as facts. I like to make up my own mind.

 

[espola]

You being the one clawing and scratching soooo desperately to disprove what the majority of the world sees as proven and/or evolving science seem to me to be the poster child covidian maximus.
This reminds me of those that immerse themselves in everything trump (although often claiming to wish to disavow themselves of him) that call out those that mention him as suffers of TDS when in reality they are the ones afflicted with an obsession that can’t be sated nor informed.

It remains to be seen how many splinters the GOP will break into.

 

[espola]

This is probably the most disappointing thing about the entire Covid experience to me. I now have zero confidence in the CDC, FDA, NIH, and HHS, and local health agencies.. They are political entities and not at all concernced about what is best for as what dad called us "average people". They have all failed miserably and the political and money based bias is blatantly clear to me. My opinion, and unlike others here, I'm not presenting my opinions as facts. I like to make up my own mind.

It's harder to convince someone they have been fooled than it is to fool them. Mark Twain (but I might just be fooling you about that)