Vaccine

Desert Hound said:
The problem they have is that as we are seeing as was posted earlier today, pfizer 10 weeks out after the booster is already down to 45% effectiveness. Moderna drops off as well but not as much.

So what are they going to do? Get people to get shots every 10 weeks or so?
Click to expand...
It almost feel like one last gasp to get people vaccinated before the authoritarian approach loses all momentum and falls completely out of fashion.
 
NorCalDad said:
Maybe it's a different anti-vaxx varietal? Team Confused is against mandates, or is certainly fearful of them (Team Reason is not pro-mandate). I think in order for Team Confused to make a case against mandates they need to argue that the vaccine isn't effective and people shouldn't need to get it. This, in turn, comes off as anti-vaxx.

Much of the outrage to @Grace T.'s "research" is the regularity in referencing quacks. It literally happens over and over again. Grace has slightly above average intelligence and knows better.
Click to expand...
So where exactly is the line you have to cross to be anti-vaxx, even though you're pro-vaxx, but anti-mandate? This smacks of don't question the science, just obey.

The problem I see is a lot of the messaging is that we can vaccinate our way out of the pandemic. They treat the vaccination as the panacea which it clearly is not (some of these "experts" are bordering on snake oil salesman). When the virus runs rampant through through the vaccinated of those groups that are nearly all vaccinated, its obvious that the vaccine doesn't prevent community spread. I don't need a quack or an "expert" to tell me that which I can see with my own eyes.

The Biden administration's Plan A is vaccinate, vaccinate, vaccinate. Their plan B, they don't have one. (which is why you see the delay in available testing) They put all their eggs in one vaccination basket, when they should also be emphasizing therapeutics and early treatment, among others. It appears the vaccine is very effective at preventing serious illness, but its not going to stop the virus.

As far as our kids go, the collateral damage from restrictions and lockdowns is far worse than their risk from Covid.
 
watfly said:
So where exactly is the line you have to cross to be anti-vaxx, even though you're pro-vaxx, but anti-mandate? This smacks of don't question the science, just obey.
Click to expand...

FYI - NorCalDad joins us as anti-vaxxers according to Webster: a person who opposes the use of vaccines or regulations mandating vaccination

watfly said:
The Biden administration's Plan A is vaccinate, vaccinate, vaccinate. Their plan B, they don't have one. (which is why you see the delay in available testing) They put all their eggs in one vaccination basket, when they should also be emphasizing therapeutics and early treatment, among others. It appears the vaccine is very effective at preventing serious illness, but its not going to stop the virus.
Click to expand...
My original thought is that it does the job of a flu shot. However, I'd say it is more like a flu shot that didn't hit on the dominant strain as is the state of our current COVID shots and boosters. It offers some protection.
 
watfly said:
So where exactly is the line you have to cross to be anti-vaxx, even though you're pro-vaxx, but anti-mandate? This smacks of don't question the science, just obey.

The problem I see is a lot of the messaging is that we can vaccinate our way out of the pandemic. They treat the vaccination as the panacea which it clearly is not (some of these "experts" are bordering on snake oil salesman). When the virus runs rampant through through the vaccinated of those groups that are nearly all vaccinated, its obvious that the vaccine doesn't prevent community spread. I don't need a quack or an "expert" to tell me that which I can see with my own eyes.

The Biden administration's Plan A is vaccinate, vaccinate, vaccinate. Their plan B, they don't have one. (which is why you see the delay in available testing) They put all their eggs in one vaccination basket, when they should also be emphasizing therapeutics and early treatment, among others. It appears the vaccine is very effective at preventing serious illness, but its not going to stop the virus.

As far as our kids go, the collateral damage from restrictions and lockdowns is far worse than their risk from Covid.
Click to expand...
It’s not really a huge surprise they ended here. When birx moved aside, atlas left and Biden tapped fauci, they (much like with aids) put all their eggs in the vaccine basket. Fauci rightly or wrongly has always been laser obsessed with vaccines.
 
watfly said:
So where exactly is the line you have to cross to be anti-vaxx, even though you're pro-vaxx, but anti-mandate? This smacks of don't question the science, just obey.

The problem I see is a lot of the messaging is that we can vaccinate our way out of the pandemic. They treat the vaccination as the panacea which it clearly is not (some of these "experts" are bordering on snake oil salesman). When the virus runs rampant through through the vaccinated of those groups that are nearly all vaccinated, its obvious that the vaccine doesn't prevent community spread. I don't need a quack or an "expert" to tell me that which I can see with my own eyes.

The Biden administration's Plan A is vaccinate, vaccinate, vaccinate. Their plan B, they don't have one. (which is why you see the delay in available testing) They put all their eggs in one vaccination basket, when they should also be emphasizing therapeutics and early treatment, among others. It appears the vaccine is very effective at preventing serious illness, but its not going to stop the virus.

As far as our kids go, the collateral damage from restrictions and lockdowns is far worse than their risk from Covid.
Click to expand...

I mean I think the piece that always goes missing in these conversations from the anti-mandate folks is the vaccine is indeed helping keep our hospitals from filling up. When hospitals fill up, people die. I mean the great Donald Trump said the same thing. So to say it's ineffective is missing the mark pretty much entirely.
 
Grace T. said:
Talk about spin and talking points. Again it depends on the age group. For a healthy teen the risk of death is negligible. For someone in their 20s without cormorbidities same. For someone in their 30s it’s much more tricky since there is a small but very real risk.

that’s why given there is little community benefit the discussion should be had between patient and doctor. The doctor may advise it’s warranted. They may advise it’s not. There’s also some things we can do to minimize risk in this group: no boosters, different vaccines, no moderna, space out injections longer and/or aspirate. These alternatives should be investigated. But it does mean no mandate which is why y’all are freaking out
Click to expand...

But in a cost/benefit analysis, the death of a 10-year-old is much more of a loss than the death of an 80-year-old.

Who is freaking out here?
 
NorCalDad said:
Maybe it's a different anti-vaxx varietal? Team Confused is against mandates, or is certainly fearful of them (Team Reason is not pro-mandate). I think in order for Team Confused to make a case against mandates they need to argue that the vaccine isn't effective and people shouldn't need to get it. This, in turn, comes off as anti-vaxx.

Much of the outrage to @Grace T.'s "research" is the regularity in referencing quacks. It literally happens over and over again. Grace has slightly above average intelligence and knows better.
Click to expand...

I have several times asked Grace to tell us where she gets all that stuff, but so far she has declined to state.
 
Grace T. said:
It’s not really a huge surprise they ended here. When birx moved aside, atlas left and Biden tapped fauci, they (much like with aids) put all their eggs in the vaccine basket. Fauci rightly or wrongly has always been laser obsessed with vaccines.
Click to expand...

Laser obsessed? Fauci pushed for the use of AZT to treat HIV/AIDS. AZT is not a vaccine. It is an enzyme reverse transcriptase inhibitor, more of a treatment or preventive than a vaccine.
 
watfly said:
The Biden administration's Plan A is vaccinate, vaccinate, vaccinate. Their plan B, they don't have one. (which is why you see the delay in available testing) They put all their eggs in one vaccination basket, when they should also be emphasizing therapeutics and early treatment, among others. It appears the vaccine is very effective at preventing serious illness, but its not going to stop the virus.
Click to expand...
A friendly reminder of the past/present which touches on the plan.

2021-12-27_1720.png
 
espola said:
But in a cost/benefit analysis, the death of a 10-year-old is much more of a loss than the death of an 80-year-old.

Who is freaking out here?
Click to expand...

If that's the case we should freak out every year about the flu because the flu is much more dangerous to a 5 year old (let alone a 10 year old) than COVID.
 
NorCalDad said:
I mean I think the piece that always goes missing in these conversations from the anti-mandate folks is the vaccine is indeed helping keep our hospitals from filling up. When hospitals fill up, people die. I mean the great Donald Trump said the same thing. So to say it's ineffective is missing the mark pretty much entirely.
Click to expand...

a. this doesn't help you though mandate it with kids, the under 30, or people who have had it before because their risk is negligible.
b. if keeping people out of the hospital is the standard, then if you go down that road, why not mandate exercise for the obesse, what a diabetic can eat, smoking, people to take needed medicine that keeps them out of the hospital.
c. it's especially not appropriate in the United States. We've had areas that have come pretty close to hospital collapse but no where have we actually had them collapse (some countries, like the Czech Republic, have had such a collapse). And if that's the standard, you should be looking at the same every flu season. Hospitals don't carry a whole lot of excess capacity....it's not profitable...that was the result of the consulting wave (which my elder brother did some work on way back when) in the late 1990s. And before you say single payer...it's the same for the NIH...to remain on budget they did the same thing as part of the Labour reforms of the 90s.
 
espola said:
Laser obsessed? Fauci pushed for the use of AZT to treat HIV/AIDS. AZT is not a vaccine. It is an enzyme reverse transcriptase inhibitor, more of a treatment or preventive than a vaccine.
Click to expand...
It's well know Fauci's vision and hope was to get a vaccine for HIV. It's even in that Disney plus film on him. It's his white whale, and it's a shame (for all of us) he never got it. It's not a criticism of him since it's great that we even have COVID vaccines (no matter how imperfect they are)....but it is an observation that when you are a hammer (immunologist) everything is a nail (vaccine).,
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top