Vaccine

Link to the more serious paper on the same topic.


All of these are being phrased as how many adverse events per million patients. Overall it is 1 or 2 per million, depending on the vaccine. Risk from the virus is around 40 per million. The next question is to do the same analysis for men 16-25.

Perfectly reasonable question for CDC and NIH. They may well recommend that we stop giving Moderna to men under 40.

Totally stupid thing to politicize, though. Prasad is arguing about whether it is 16 or 160 non-fatal events per ten million patients. California has already had 1.6 million covid cases and 1278 covid deaths among the 10 million people aged 17-34. The vaccine is the smaller risk in this picture, even among men under 40.
 
dad4 said:
Link to the more serious paper on the same topic.


All of these are being phrased as how many adverse events per million patients. Overall it is 1 or 2 per million, depending on the vaccine. Risk from the virus is around 40 per million. The next question is to do the same analysis for men 16-25.

Perfectly reasonable question for CDC and NIH. They may well recommend that we stop giving Moderna to men under 40.

Totally stupid thing to politicize, though. Prasad is arguing about whether it is 16 or 160 non-fatal events per ten million patients. California has already had 1.6 million covid cases and 1278 covid deaths among the 10 million people aged 17-34. The vaccine is the smaller risk in this picture, even among men under 40.
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This is a reasonable and well thought out critique unlike espolas

three notes back:
1. It doesn’t speak as to whether different vaccines should be used for the under 40. It also doesn’t speak to the question of why we don’t have other vaccines for this population when az and novovax should both be pursued as options given the problem
2. particularly if there is no substantial reduction in community spread, it undermines the question of mandates. Whether to take such risks (either with the vaccine or the virus) should be a question of discussion between doctors and their patients so the patient can make the ultimate decision (particularly if there are no other options beyond moderna and Pfizer)
3. In particular it negates the need for a booster shot in this group if the booster does not provide additional support against severe disease in this population (which when you get down to teens the risk is especially negligible). But instead we have colleges around the us that are requiring the boosters for men this age and it should give us pause before extending to high school.
 
dad4 said:
Link to the more serious paper on the same topic.


All of these are being phrased as how many adverse events per million patients. Overall it is 1 or 2 per million, depending on the vaccine. Risk from the virus is around 40 per million. The next question is to do the same analysis for men 16-25.

Perfectly reasonable question for CDC and NIH. They may well recommend that we stop giving Moderna to men under 40.

Totally stupid thing to politicize, though. Prasad is arguing about whether it is 16 or 160 non-fatal events per ten million patients. California has already had 1.6 million covid cases and 1278 covid deaths among the 10 million people aged 17-34. The vaccine is the smaller risk in this picture, even among men under 40.
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Ps the nature article was posted by someone (or a reference to it) a few days back. It’s a preprint. What happened is the scientific community ask for a release of the numbers. The reference I posted was a critique of the released numbers.
 
Grace T. said:
This is a reasonable and well thought out critique unlike espolas

three notes back:
1. It doesn’t speak as to whether different vaccines should be used for the under 40. It also doesn’t speak to the question of why we don’t have other vaccines for this population when az and novovax should both be pursued as options given the problem
2. particularly if there is no substantial reduction in community spread, it undermines the question of mandates. Whether to take such risks (either with the vaccine or the virus) should be a question of discussion between doctors and their patients so the patient can make the ultimate decision (particularly if there are no other options beyond moderna and Pfizer)
3. In particular it negates the need for a booster shot in this group if the booster does not provide additional support against severe disease in this population (which when you get down to teens the risk is especially negligible). But instead we have colleges around the us that are requiring the boosters for men this age and it should give us pause before extending to high school.
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Some factors for your ongoing cost/benefit analysis: The inflammations and arrhythmias cited are temporary. Death from covid is permanent.
 
Grace T. said:
Another chuckle. You are doing exactly what you claim to hate. Noted.
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What I "claim to hate" is ad hominems based on lies. Discussing an author's posting history is appropriate when there is reason to believe that he is following a political pathway rather than medical logic.
 
Grace T. said:
Another chuckle. You are doing exactly what you claim to hate. Noted.
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Au contraire as you once again hold up highly partisan hyperbole in lieu of serious research. Then at at some point you will in fact circle back and attempt to use it as confirmation for what you will try to pass as “your opinion”.
The cut & paste dizzy school of spin.
 
Grace T. said:
I had to go into the T-Mobile store (for some reason they blocked my credit card...they keep claiming its my bank but my bank has investigated and they say it's a vendor problem...called online help but they couldn't fix it so they sent me to the store...which was idiotic because the store just called online help which said they couldn't fix it). Every customer in the store (about 5 of them) had their masks under their nose when I walked in. Maybe it's a t-mobile thing.
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Well, I listened to my amazing son and bought a box of masks so I don't have to ask for a mask. That was his advise and it was genius. My wife got asked three times yesterday to put a mask on. It's on folks. This time I will play with them and obey. It's all about the mask and the cases on the rise again Grace. They pivot better then any group I have ever met in my life. They lie to your face and cheat in front of you better then anyone I know and nothing you can do. It's past to no return to normal.
 
espola said:
What I "claim to hate" is ad hominems based on lies. Discussing an author's posting history is appropriate when there is reason to believe that he is following a political pathway rather than medical logic.
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Oh this is an interesting revisionism. Noted. So if I were to discuss your posting history by noting you are a moron when there is reason to believe you are lost rather than understanding something that’s totally ok. Got it. :)

this really is comedy gold.
 
Hüsker Dü said:
Au contraire as you once again hold up highly partisan hyperbole in lieu of serious research. Then at at some point you will in fact circle back and attempt to use it as confirmation for what you will try to pass as “your opinion”.
The cut & paste dizzy school of spin.
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Let me run this one through my Orwellian fact checker
“Au contraire”= you are right but I want to sound self important
“As you once again”= Espola just told me this is fine
“Hold up highly partisan hyperbole”= I don’t like the data so I’m not going to attack that so I’m going to attack the author
“In lieu of serious research”= how dare this peon challenge one of the experts I like by point out what their own numbers say and even though it agrees with some of the conclusions reached by the Europeans
“Circle back”= I love jen
“Use it as confirmation”=even though you qualified it with being subject to the numbers being confirmed.
“for what you try to pass as your opinion”= you aren’t entitled to have one
“The cut and paste school of dizzy spin”=I don’t like it when others spin but when dad4, Espola and I get all ruffled by someone pointing out an issue with numbers that’s just fun and dandy.

this thing really is a wonder. How I survived all these years without it.
 
espola said:
Some factors for your ongoing cost/benefit analysis: The inflammations and arrhythmias cited are temporary. Death from covid is permanent.
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Talk about spin and talking points. Again it depends on the age group. For a healthy teen the risk of death is negligible. For someone in their 20s without cormorbidities same. For someone in their 30s it’s much more tricky since there is a small but very real risk.

that’s why given there is little community benefit the discussion should be had between patient and doctor. The doctor may advise it’s warranted. They may advise it’s not. There’s also some things we can do to minimize risk in this group: no boosters, different vaccines, no moderna, space out injections longer and/or aspirate. These alternatives should be investigated. But it does mean no mandate which is why y’all are freaking out
 
Fauci says to cancel New Year's Eve parties, as millions struggle for normalcy nearly two years into pandemic
Amid young adult mental health crisis, Fauci says to stay away from normalcy of New Year's Eve parties: 'Not this year'

"I have been telling people consistently that if you're vaccinated and boosted and you have a family setting, in the home with family and relatives," it's okay to gather, Fauci continued. "But when you're talking about a New Year's Eve party, we have 30, 40, 50 people celebrating. You do not know the status of their vaccination, I would recommend strongly stay away from that this year."

"It's the crushing impact that our COVID policies have had on kids and young children… even teenagers," CBS News National Legal Correspondent said on "Face the Nation" Sunday when asked what she thinks is the biggest underreported story of 2021. "They have sacrificed the most… The risk of suicide attempts among girls, now up 51% this year. Black kids nearly twice as likely as White kids to die by suicide. School closures, lockdown, cancellation of sports."

Nearly a third of adults who took the online August/COVID Resilience Survey conducted by The Harris Poll said sometimes they are so stressed about the pandemic that they struggle to make basic decisions and more than a third of them said it has been more stressful to make day-to-day decisions and major life decisions in comparison to life before the pandemic. Sixty-three percent of young adults said uncertainty about the near future causes them stress and around half said the pandemic had made planning for the future feel impossible.

Yet Fauci said for those folks, the normalcy of a New Year's Eve party should not be in their plans. Dr. F says basically too bad, "There will be other years to do that, but not this year," Fauci told CNN.
 
Grace T. said:
Oh this is an interesting revisionism. Noted. So if I were to discuss your posting history by noting you are a moron when there is reason to believe you are lost rather than understanding something that’s totally ok. Got it. :)

this really is comedy gold.
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You don’t/can’t/won’t allow your set to see it so I will explain if you don’t mind. You continue to use your own opinion as the citation you refer to as back up for your opinion.
 
Hüsker Dü said:
You don’t/can’t/won’t allow your set to see it so I will explain if you don’t mind. You continue to use your own opinion as the citation you refer to as back up for your opinion.
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I post a variety of things of interest much of which you and your set discount as not one of your experts and fringe if it disagrees with your narrative. Then when something like the Bangladesh mask study come out you guys, despite all its flaws and the criticisms, try to take it to a new level by claiming it’s proof positive of your narrative. But you guys here are doing the exact opposite…rather than rebut the numbers or the suggested conclusions you guys have gone the route either of misdirection (because you can’t abide that if true it’s another nail in the mandate coffin) or you do things like attack the author or the poster. Sad but this appears to be the game plan.
 
Well this should be the end of mandating vaxxes. How frequently must one get it now?


New data from the UK indicates that the effectiveness of Pfizer vaccine booster shots in preventing symptomatic COVID-19 as a result of the Omicron variant drops considerably within 10 weeks of receiving the inoculation.

But it also showed that protection afforded by Moderna boosters remained relatively strong for a longer period.

The UK Health Security Agency (UKHSA) reviewed 68,489 Omicron cases in the country. It assessed that Pfizer and Moderna vaccines were around 70 percent effective at preventing symptomatic disease 2-4 weeks after getting a third shot (down from some 90% effective against the previously dominant Delta variant)


With Pfizer boosters, this dropped to 45% by 10 weeks,

https://www.timesofisrael.com/uk-ag...prevent-symptomatic-covid-wanes-within-weeks/
 
kickingandscreaming said:
It's a Borg Collective of Trolls - or 1 guy. The practical difference is meaningless.
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It’s a sign when the 3+ dad4 freak out about something. The normal reaction to something like that would be “interesting but here’s the problems with that”. Instead, because it challenges the narrative, what we get is their little freak out. It tends to signify they consider a particular issue of danger to the narrative so it just causes me to pay attention more and put it in the “this is interesting” bucket instead of the “this may be nothing” bucket.
 
Grace T. said:
It’s a sign when the 3+ dad4 freak out about something. The normal reaction to something like that would be “interesting but here’s the problems with that”. Instead, because it challenges the narrative, what we get is their little freak out. It tends to signify they consider a particular issue of danger to the narrative so it just causes me to pay attention more and put it in the “this is interesting” bucket instead of the “this may be nothing” bucket.
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It's all they got left Grace T. All jabbed in so they just twist and turn and move a goal post here and then move one over here. Cases everywhere now, shut the airports down, shut down certain colleges ((I guess only some teams have Covid)) s not to spread Omicron. They have nowhere to go now and nowhere to run. No more gasoline and no time to run. Backs up against a wall they cannot climb. No rope no nothing. They went all in with jabs and booster. Now booster is only good for a few weeks. I think a booster every two months is coming for those who are going down with the booster ship.
 
Grace T. said:
It’s a sign when the 3+ dad4 freak out about something. The normal reaction to something like that would be “interesting but here’s the problems with that”. Instead, because it challenges the narrative, what we get is their little freak out. It tends to signify they consider a particular issue of danger to the narrative so it just causes me to pay attention more and put it in the “this is interesting” bucket instead of the “this may be nothing” bucket.
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Every. Single. Time.
 
Grace T. said:
It’s a sign when the 3+ dad4 freak out about something. The normal reaction to something like that would be “interesting but here’s the problems with that”. Instead, because it challenges the narrative, what we get is their little freak out. It tends to signify they consider a particular issue of danger to the narrative so it just causes me to pay attention more and put it in the “this is interesting” bucket instead of the “this may be nothing” bucket.
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You post twenty times about a myocarditis risk that is smaller than the risk from a short car trip. Then you accuse others of freaking out?

Got it.
 
dad4 said:
You post twenty times about a myocarditis risk that is smaller than the risk from a short car trip. Then you accuse others of freaking out?

Got it.
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the difference is people get to make the choice about the short term car risk. It’s about the mandate not the vaccine (particularly the colleges mandating boosters)
A. Doesn’t mean the vaccine is not warranted for some in this age group
B. Doesn’t mean we shouldn’t be taking steps to mitigate

and it’s your freak out that’s keeping the issue alive here. I would have been content with an “interesting but Here’s what’s wrong with the numbers” but that’s not what we got. Instead we get this Little freak out from you and yours. I’m just responding to y’all and would have been perfectly content leaving it with the original post.
 
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