Vaccine

[crush]

The future of going out to dinner for two​

The Jabbers: Table for two please

Eat Place: Sure, can I get a name

The jabbers: Jesse

Eat Place: Great, do you and your guest have their vaccination cards?

The Jabbers: We do. Can you tell us who are server will be?

Eat Place: Um, let me check. Looks like Brad will be your server

Jabbers: Great, I would like to see his vaccination papers as well please

Eat Place: Um

Jabbers: Plus, can you please provide proof that Brad has no HIV, Hepatitis A or B or any communicable diseases

Eat Place: Um

The Jabbers: Also, we would also prefer not to be served by someone who uses recreational drugs such as cocaine, Mari Jane, meth, fentanyl, ect so if you could also show us Brad's most resent tox screen that would be great

Eat Place: Let me get the manager

The Jabbers: That would be great

The Non-Jabbers last night.....lol

 

[Desert Hound]

This article is a classic example of how the press feeds the fear and paranoia in many.

It really is irresponsible. Bad journalism.

As we look at some of the quotes from the article...lets keep this in mind.

72 million people17 and under. Roughly 350 deaths in this group since covid began. Remember that as you read the following panic porn.

"The timing of the latest COVID-19 surge isn’t great for children. Millions have already started the school year, the rest will do so in the coming weeks, and COVID-19 vaccines aren’t yet available for the 50 million Americans who haven’t reached their 12th birthday."

Remember...millions went to school last year when there wasn't a vaccine for anyone. What happened to the kids? Nothing. There was a lot of panic porn regarding that.

"Vaccine availability will not bring this pediatric outbreak to a halt. But it will help curb the spread of the virus for everyone, and give many families a better sense of how to plan for the future. To that end, as we hurtle toward the fall, parents, teachers, and pediatricians are eager to know when, exactly, the youngest Americans will have a shot at getting a shot."

Why exactly are we EAGER? What exactly is the risk we are worried about?

"Critics of the agency, including the leadership of the American Academy of Pediatrics, argue that this demand for more participants will make the authorization process drag on for longer than necessary, prolonging the harm caused to kids by not offering them the vaccines."

Remind me again. What is the harm kids have been experiencing so far?

"Vaccines for the under-12s simply aren’t going to eliminate the anxiety around the back-to-school season."

Emphasizing FEAR again. Not once in the article does the writer point out actual data showing kids have essentially ZERO RISK.

"In the meantime, the strategies we’ve learned to use throughout the pandemic will keep kids safer. "

No the strategies didn't make a difference. Kids are safe.

It is articles like this one that keep a substantial portion of the population in a state of fear. Devoid of data, but full of scare quotes and words.

Why Is It Taking So Long to Get Vaccines for Kids?

A few things still need to happen before the shots can be authorized for Americans younger than 12.

www.theatlantic.com

 

[crush]

This article is a classic example of how the press feeds the fear and paranoia in many.

It really is irresponsible. Bad journalism.

As we look at some of the quotes from the article...lets keep this in mind.

72 million people17 and under. Roughly 350 deaths in this group since covid began. Remember that as you read the following panic porn.

"The timing of the latest COVID-19 surge isn’t great for children. Millions have already started the school year, the rest will do so in the coming weeks, and COVID-19 vaccines aren’t yet available for the 50 million Americans who haven’t reached their 12th birthday."

Remember...millions went to school last year when there wasn't a vaccine for anyone. What happened to the kids? Nothing. There was a lot of panic porn regarding that.

"Vaccine availability will not bring this pediatric outbreak to a halt. But it will help curb the spread of the virus for everyone, and give many families a better sense of how to plan for the future. To that end, as we hurtle toward the fall, parents, teachers, and pediatricians are eager to know when, exactly, the youngest Americans will have a shot at getting a shot."

Why exactly are we EAGER? What exactly is the risk we are worried about?

"Critics of the agency, including the leadership of the American Academy of Pediatrics, argue that this demand for more participants will make the authorization process drag on for longer than necessary, prolonging the harm caused to kids by not offering them the vaccines."

Remind me again. What is the harm kids have been experiencing so far?

"Vaccines for the under-12s simply aren’t going to eliminate the anxiety around the back-to-school season."

Emphasizing FEAR again. Not once in the article does the writer point out actual data showing kids have essentially ZERO RISK.

"In the meantime, the strategies we’ve learned to use throughout the pandemic will keep kids safer. "

No the strategies didn't make a difference. Kids are safe.

It is articles like this one that keep a substantial portion of the population in a state of fear. Devoid of data, but full of scare quotes and words.

Why Is It Taking So Long to Get Vaccines for Kids?

A few things still need to happen before the shots can be authorized for Americans younger than 12.

www.theatlantic.com

It's one big propaganda tour. They say, "jump" and they jump. They say, "jab" and they roll up their sleeves. They say, "mask" and they obey and wear a mask. They say, "jab or no job to pay for bills." and they jab. It's 100% a cult bro. I've never seen anything like it.

 

[Roadrunner]

Scott McKay is correct: “Our Politicians And Bureaucrats Are Failing At Virology.” A slice:

Alas, polio has not been eradicated. While medicine has come a long way and great vaccines against polio have existed for a while, cases do still arise in various places around the world. Politics, access, and mistrust of either vaccines or those giving the vaccines are all issues that have prevented the world from reaching the eradication goal. The history of polio vaccines is interesting, and includes a connection to soccer. https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...n-story-jeff-hall-death-polio-birmingham-city


(This virus is not respiratory, but rather a GI tract virus. This means the mode of transmission is different from respiratory viruses It is in the picornavirus family, and has a small single stranded RNA genome, which is covered only by a protein shell.)

 

[crush]

Alas, polio has not been eradicated. While medicine has come a long way and great vaccines against polio have existed for a while, cases do still arise in various places around the world. Politics, access, and mistrust of either vaccines or those giving the vaccines are all issues that have prevented the world from reaching the eradication goal. The history of polio vaccines is interesting, and includes a connection to soccer. https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...n-story-jeff-hall-death-polio-birmingham-city


(This virus is not respiratory, but rather a GI tract virus. This means the mode of transmission is different from respiratory viruses It is in the picornavirus family, and has a small single stranded RNA genome, which is covered only by a protein shell.)

Can you do me a big favor? I have no idea what your saying and I'm lost with how you write. I need you to dumb this down for me and use some examples. Talk to me like I'm in 8th grade and just need to know if I should allow my kids to take the jab. I'm not taking it but I would love to hear why it's so important for my healthy dd to get jabbed. Thanks. Also, non-vax kids be allowed to play sports against the jabbed kids or no jab no play? Honest debate type of question.

 

[Roadrunner]

Can you do me a big favor? I have no idea what your saying and I'm lost with how you write. I need you to dumb this down for me and use some examples. Talk to me like I'm in 8th grade and just need to know if I should allow my kids to take the jab. I'm not taking it but I would love to hear why it's so important for my healthy dd to get jabbed. Thanks. Also, non-vax kids be allowed to play sports against the jabbed kids or no jab no play? Honest debate type of question.

What I am saying is that it is really difficult to completely get rid of viruses from the world. Having vaccines is really helpful because they help to limit the available hosts for the virus. If the virus cannot find hosts to infect, it will die out. Natural immunity is also helpful in helping to limit the ability of viruses to spread, but not necessarily a great way to gain immunity because you would be experiencing whatever the impact of the virus is on your system in the process. In the case of polio, most people who are infected experience symptoms like a stomach flu. But, for some people, the virus gets into their spine and the consequences can be quite serious. People chose the polio vaccine so they don't have to gamble on the outcome of an infection. The polio vaccines have been around a long time now, so it can feel more familiar and understood.

For your specific question, I do think that it is advisable for teens to get the vaccine. She should talk to her pediatrician. If she's up for it, journals like Science have a lot of information on covid that is freely available. There's a lot we don't know about yet with respect to the long term impacts of surviving covid, but there's certainly information out there that makes me not want to gamble if it isn't necessary.

My son wanted to be vaccinated as soon as it was approved for his age, and we supported his decision. (My daughter is too young.) His pediatrician reached out to recommend he make an appointment for the vaccine. He was nervous, but did well and he feels like he has a lot more freedom to enjoy socializing without worrying about the virus. One of his friends became orphaned due to covid last year; all of that friend group got vaccinated within a week of it becoming available. (No, the dad was quite active, healthy, and no preexisting conditions.)

 

[crush]

One of his friends became orphaned due to covid last year; all of that friend group got vaccinated within a week of it becoming available. (No, the dad was quite active, healthy, and no preexisting conditions.)

A little better, thanks. You call it a vaccine and others say is a spike protein that attacks the blood cells and makes them inflame somehow. Do you think the blood clot scare is real or make up stuff? I know of three people ((one personal, two my wife knows the wives) and all three have blood clots and all three on blood thinner. Orphaaned is interesting choice of words to use Roadroader. How old was your son's friend when his father passed away last year because of Covid? Btw, super sad to hear. This is the first I've heard on the forum of someone super healthy who died directly from the flu. Mom already passed away too?

 

[crush]

Another question I have. Please be honest friends of the forum. Former President Obama had bday bash and no mask. That is 100% fact, correct? Anyone dispute that? Weed was also passed out as goodie bags, right? So the news is out that 63 came down with Covid. They said nearly all the guest got jabbed before they showed to the big ragger. Everyone got tested before showing up as well they said and no was allowed in with a fever. This is about 10% of the peeps just got sick.

 

[dad4]

Another question I have. Please be honest friends of the forum. Former President Obama had bday bash and no mask. That is 100% fact, correct? Anyone dispute that? Weed was also passed out as goodie bags, right? So the news is out that 63 came down with Covid. They said nearly all the guest got jabbed before they showed to the big ragger. Everyone got tested before showing up as well they said and no was allowed in with a fever. This is about 10% of the peeps just got sick.

74 cases on the island- not 74 cases at the party. contact tracing data are not available yet, so we cant say how many are from the party. We find out Monday or Tuesday. Some, but not all, of the cases will end up linked to Obama’s party, or people who travelled for the party.

I dont care about the weed. But holding that size of event was incredibly selfish.

 

[Grace T.]

Alas, polio has not been eradicated. While medicine has come a long way and great vaccines against polio have existed for a while, cases do still arise in various places around the world. Politics, access, and mistrust of either vaccines or those giving the vaccines are all issues that have prevented the world from reaching the eradication goal. The history of polio vaccines is interesting, and includes a connection to soccer. https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...n-story-jeff-hall-death-polio-birmingham-city


(This virus is not respiratory, but rather a GI tract virus. This means the mode of transmission is different from respiratory viruses It is in the picornavirus family, and has a small single stranded RNA genome, which is covered only by a protein shell.)

We haven’t eliminated polio which: a. The vaccine has been around forever and there’s enough for the world, b. Is relatively more stable and structurally less complex, c. Is not respiratory, and d. Doesn’t have a large zoonotic host reservoir while covid is in bats, various cats, ferrets, mink, some monkeys, apes and now possibly dogs and some reports of even rats (if it crosses to rats “a bat without wings” we ain’t ever getting rid of it).

 

[Grace T.]

74 cases on the island- not 74 cases at the party. contact tracing data are not available yet, so we cant say how many are from the party. We find out Monday or Tuesday. Some, but not all, of the cases will end up linked to Obama’s party, or people who travelled for the party.

I dont care about the weed. But holding that size of event was incredibly selfish.

But they were vaccinated and sophisticated. Not like those dirty bikers in South Dakota.

 

[crush]

74 cases on the island- not 74 cases at the party. contact tracing data are not available yet, so we cant say how many are from the party. We find out Monday or Tuesday. Some, but not all, of the cases will end up linked to Obama’s party, or people who travelled for the party.

I dont care about the weed. But holding that size of event was incredibly selfish.

Who gets blamed for the super spreader? I dont see it as selfish at all. I see it as being forth coming and up front and honest about the truth. The fact is Dad, nothing to be alarmed by. They had no mask because no mask was needed, MOO!

 

[crush]

We haven’t eliminated polio which: a. The vaccine has been around forever and there’s enough for the world, b. Is relatively more stable and structurally less complex, c. Is not respiratory, and d. Doesn’t have a large zoonotic host reservoir while covid is in bats, various cats, ferrets, mink, some monkeys, apes and now possibly dogs and some reports of even rats (if it crosses to rats “a bat without wings” we ain’t ever getting rid of it).

Oh my. I got a ride to pick up my truck from a neighbor just a few minutes ago. Dude was on crutches. He got jabbed two months ago and pulled his calf. I asked how and he said playing tennis. He said he was just going to pick up the ball and he said he felt like someone kicked him in the back of the calf. He went to the Doc and their keeping an eye on him. He's only 40 something and in great shape. I didnt want to scare him so I just told about the blood clots going around after 2nd jab. He said thanks for the tip and he see's the Doc Monday. I asked him what happen to the flu and he said it went away because of the mask. BTW Grace, everyone is back wearing mask again. My family and I just bought a fresh box and will just wear them to keep everyone happy.

 

[Grace T.]

Does anyone still believe herd immunity is possible with COVID? It appears to mutate rather easily.

Most likely outcome is as in the article I posted in bad news thread it hits an equilibrium point where some people (like flu rsv adenovirus and even rino and noro virus) die from it each year, mostly people who would have died relatively shortly from something else (whether flu or heart attack or cancer). There are some nightmare outcomes in the mix too but unlikely. The only question is when we hit that point and how many people are taken down along the way (a trade off between fewer mostly unvaccinated but restrictions for years v more mostly unvaccinated but a quicker exit)

if the az Really is only 20-40% effective against delta symptoms and Pfizer only 40-60%, australia and mew Zealand are in for at least another year of fortressing and then some butt hurt when they exit.

 

[espola]

Most likely outcome is as in the article I posted in bad news thread it hits an equilibrium point where some people (like flu rsv adenovirus and even rino and noro virus) die from it each year, mostly people who would have died relatively shortly from something else (whether flu or heart attack or cancer). There are some nightmare outcomes in the mix too but unlikely. The only question is when we hit that point and how many people are taken down along the way (a trade off between fewer mostly unvaccinated but restrictions for years v more mostly unvaccinated but a quicker exit)

if the az Really is only 20-40% effective against delta symptoms and Pfizer only 40-60%, australia and mew Zealand are in for at least another year of fortressing and then some butt hurt when they exit.

"With the BNT162b2 vaccine, the effectiveness of two doses was 93.7% (95% CI, 91.6 to 95.3) among persons with the alpha variant and 88.0% (95% CI, 85.3 to 90.1) among those with the delta variant. With the ChAdOx1 nCoV-19 vaccine, the effectiveness of two doses was 74.5% (95% CI, 68.4 to 79.4) among persons with the alpha variant and 67.0% (95% CI, 61.3 to 71.8) among those with the delta variant."

Effectiveness of Covid-19 Vaccines against the B.1.617.2 (Delta) Variant | NEJM

Original Article from The New England Journal of Medicine — Effectiveness of Covid-19 Vaccines against the B.1.617.2 (Delta) Variant

www.nejm.org

 

[Grace T.]

"With the BNT162b2 vaccine, the effectiveness of two doses was 93.7% (95% CI, 91.6 to 95.3) among persons with the alpha variant and 88.0% (95% CI, 85.3 to 90.1) among those with the delta variant. With the ChAdOx1 nCoV-19 vaccine, the effectiveness of two doses was 74.5% (95% CI, 68.4 to 79.4) among persons with the alpha variant and 67.0% (95% CI, 61.3 to 71.8) among those with the delta variant."

Effectiveness of Covid-19 Vaccines against the B.1.617.2 (Delta) Variant | NEJM

Original Article from The New England Journal of Medicine — Effectiveness of Covid-19 Vaccines against the B.1.617.2 (Delta) Variant

www.nejm.org

This would be very good news! But unfortunately it belies the number of breakthrough cases being reported. Anecdotally from the own situation I have data from (4/9 breakthrough cases at a mostly masked outdoor bbq) and from what’s happening in Iceland this is unlikely to hold up. They nod to the contra data out of Qatar and I didn’t see references to either the uk or Israeli pre print data which also has it lower. But fingers crossed it does hold up.

 

[espola]

This would be very good news! But unfortunately it belies the number of breakthrough cases being reported. Anecdotally from the own situation I have data from (4/9 breakthrough cases at a mostly masked outdoor bbq) and from what’s happening in Iceland this is unlikely to hold up. They nod to the contra data out of Qatar and I didn’t see references to either the uk or Israeli pre print data which also has it lower. But fingers crossed it does hold up.

Did you submit that to New England Journal of Anecdotes?

 

[Grace T.]

Did you submit that to New England Journal of Anecdotes?

Well if the nejm is correct, that anecdote shouldn’t have happened. But as I said I would be really thrilled to be wrong about this.

 

[dad4]

But they were vaccinated and sophisticated. Not like those dirty bikers in South Dakota.

Not at all like the bikers.

People at the Obama event were much more highly connected. And more likely to think they are too important to waste 14 days in quarantine.

A reasonable biker will curse their luck and spend the 14 days watching tv or fixing up their bike.

 

[Roadrunner]

We haven’t eliminated polio which: a. The vaccine has been around forever and there’s enough for the world, b. Is relatively more stable and structurally less complex, c. Is not respiratory, and d. Doesn’t have a large zoonotic host reservoir while covid is in bats, various cats, ferrets, mink, some monkeys, apes and now possibly dogs and some reports of even rats (if it crosses to rats “a bat without wings” we ain’t ever getting rid of it).

We've only eliminated smallpox, because of the vaccine. My point was that we/humanity should have been able to also eliminate polio, but, despite having great tools, we haven't. Yes, there should be plenty of polio vaccine for the world, but the point is that not everyone is vaccinated. Just as there are people on this forum who do not want the sars-cov2 vaccine, one contributing factor for the continued presence of polio is that there are people who chose not to get the polio vaccine. Outbreaks of polio do still happen in these unvaccinated populations.

Personally, I would prefer it if people had an attitude that they wanted to try to contain infectious viruses rather than take the approach that since we won't completely get rid of it, let's not bother trying. Maybe telling oneself the problem is too big or the solutions are imperfect is just one way to feel ok about rationalizing a choice not to try.