Vaccine

[watfly]

The identity of the last person in each chain is not really the point. The point is that, if more of us are masked and vaccinated, then covid will reach fewer vulnerable people. The chain will break somewhere along the way.

Yes, I agree that the last person on the chain is not really the point. But the fact is there are vaccinated in the chain, so the vaccinated don't break the chain. That's why its illogical to discriminate against the unvaccinated. In some ways it would make more sense to discriminate against the medically vulnerable. The 15 that were infected at the nursing home did nothing to break, or apparently to slow the chain.

 

[MicPaPa]

You have also made my point that policy doesn't matter a bit when we respond by marginalizing anyone who disagrees on anything. The electorate is at a point where this is accepted and encouraged by both "sides". I see this as a fundamental underlying issue, so I won't go down that road.

Darkness cannot drive out darkness, only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate, only love can do that.
- ML King

One of my wife's favorite actresses
You can tell more about a person by what he says about others than by what others say about him.
- Audrey Hepburn

I'd write more but I need to get back to my wife's bunions.

She wrote this, didn't she?

 

[watfly]

What! Now this is word count worthy. This has got to be a parody of the other post or you are delusional, but either way, this is a another sterling example of my point - an emotional word salad all about personality and manners, although I’ll give credit for a general policy mention. But seriously, are you sure someone else didn't write this while you were busy massaging bunions?

Where to start......

How it started: “Had Trump not been an ahole at times there is a good chance Trump would still be President.”
How it ended: “Sorry, but you can't lay this all at the doorstep of personality voters.”
1) You really didn’t notice the contradiction?
2) Seriously? “ahole”, you’re addressing another Man, you can use asshole.

“He is one of the thinnest skinned, easily offended individuals around.”
1) What Men talk like this, especially to and about other Men?
2) Did you grow up with all older sisters?

“I believe that would fall under the category of "passive/aggressive".
1) See 1 & 2 above.

“I think you might mistake his retaliatory insults as toughness, when in fact it is the opposite”
1) You think I might mistake….no, allow me to remove any question for you – retaliatory insults ARE toughness.
2) If you are constantly called a racist Russian agent and your wife and kids receive a never ending barrage of vile insults…..your response would be what? “cut it out, you’re being passive/aggressive”

“You notice that Trump never said these insults to anyone's face”
1) Again, What! Were you in a coma during the Republican primary debates with, I forgot the total number of candidates,18 to 20ish, the presidential debates. and the historical number of presidential press conferences and encounters? ***Although I have no proof, I’m willing to bet if there were cameras behind closed doors…… We’d see the same.
2) Also, this one has me leaning away from parody and more towards delusional.

“portrayed as bullying by the media, and in some cases it did border on bullying.”
1) Again, no thoughts of contradiction passed through your cranium with this one?
2) Although I must admit, probably unbeknownst to you, but you hit comedy gold with this.

“he is not the prophet you make him out to be.”
1) "In reality" I can give two shits about Trump personally. All the emotionally driven personality/vulgarity/manners/mean tweets etc. etc. etc., only crosses my mind when I see it as a weakness in others. I measure a Man by his word, actions, and results..... based on that I put Trump up there with Reagan as one of the greatest presidents in my lifetime and found it easy to cast, and will again cast my vote for him, regardless of what my wife thinks or says.

Speaking of my wife, like you and many women, she focused on and struggled with the emotional personality judgments of Trump. But ultimately, being a first-generation immigrant, she intelligently and wisely understood the huge impact of elections beyond personalities, along with what was best for her family and country, making the choice obvious and easy.

As for me, having spent most of my adult life in the military and law enforcement and having felt and lived the actual consequences of elections, our binary choice is always logically obvious and easy.....It's the emotional illogical choices of others, that we are currently living through, that are hard to comprehend. But I believe the answer is somewhere within one of my favorite quotes:

“You have never lived until you've almost died. For those who have fought for it, life has a flavor the protected shall never know.”
— Guy De Maupassant

Hopefully you didn't pull any muscles puffing out your chest. Not everyone can be a bad ass like you.

Character impacts effectiveness, that's just reality. Scorched earth policy never works in the long term. Were people too easily offended by Trump, 100%. Are people too easily offended these days, 100%. Does that mean that character doesn't matter to some degree, no. Personally, I believe being offended is on the offended, and not the offender.

Your last quote is quite ironic considering Trump never had much at risk as it was his lenders who primarily held the risk. Not that that's not genius, lets just not pretend that he was some fucking warrior.

That having been said, thank you for your service, both in the military and law enforcement.

 

[espola]

Ignoring whether this is true or not, if you going to advance your clients ludicrous position, at least attempt to do so convincingly without contradiction. Seriously, check out their interview on the Today show, I promise you will a good chuckle out of it.

I have a lot to say about this situation, but this is not the right thread.

 

[dad4]

Yes, I agree that the last person on the chain is not really the point. But the fact is there are vaccinated in the chain, so the vaccinated don't break the chain. That's why its illogical to discriminate against the unvaccinated. In some ways it would make more sense to discriminate against the medically vulnerable. The 15 that were infected at the nursing home did nothing to break, or apparently to slow the chain.

The vaccinated people in the chain are the weak links. They don’t always break the chain. But they do make it more likely to break. And that’s the goal.

( Not sure how you get to the conclusion that “vaccinated don’t break the chain”. At most, you can say “among chains that didn’t break, the vaccinated didn’t break the chain.”. Phrased that way, you can see it doesn’t really say much. )

 

[crush]

Had Trump not been an ahole at times there is a good chance Trump would still be President.

Let's say for argument sakes that t did what he said he would do back in early 2017. Again, let me repeat: t said he and his administration #1 goal was to END human trafficking once and for all and punish all those involved. Once he called his shot the Media, Hollywood and Russia Russia Russia came to town and FB lit up with hate and division for him and anyone who associates with him or believes in anything he believes in. We all watched this shit show for two years. Nothing can stop what is going to happen. My point is sometimes you have to be an asshole to assholes who treat kids like like their doing now, making them wear a mask and take a chance with death and underlying health issues we know nothing about. Maybe those involved also happen to be the cheaters liars? WHO the heck knows. Man, some of you really hate this guy t. Quit watching Tel A Vision, quit eating meat, quit drink with the Spirits and get the off %^$# fence got goodness sakes.

 

[dad4]

Somewhere....Science TM!

Again, you are neglecting any sort of cost benefit analysis or any drift in the vaccine immunity numbers.

Drift in the immunity numbers?

I’d be happy to discuss what happens when R is a function of time. You do not have the mathematical background necessary to have that discussion. I can tell you that so long as time average R is bounded, or able to be bounded by booster shots, it really doesn’t change things.

 

[Grace T.]

Drift in the immunity numbers?

I’d be happy to discuss what happens when R is a function of time. You do not have the mathematical background necessary to have that discussion. I can tell you that so long as time average R is bounded, or able to be bounded by booster shots, it really doesn’t change things.

You don't even understand your own inputs. I'm talking about the ability of the vaccine to prevent symptomatic infection (and therefore presumably transmission). The data suggests that number is falling over time. So without boosters/natural immunity, you would go from a population that has 80% resistance to infection to 0%. Unless you mandate (quite possibly constant) boosters and/or natural immunity lasts and everyone catches it.

You are the one that keeps throwing around vaccination numbers whenever an example is brought up of an area masked and heavily vaxxed but still having outbreaks. The point is that vaccination number is effectively being reduced on a day over day basis as time drifts forward.

I'm talking about your input (you keep talking about the R calculation) (and geez this sounds exactly like the conversations I used to have with the math/BA types at work).

 

[crush]

You have also made my point that policy doesn't matter a bit when we respond by marginalizing anyone who disagrees on anything. The electorate is at a point where this is accepted and encouraged by both "sides". I see this as a fundamental underlying issue, so I won't go down that road.

Darkness cannot drive out darkness, only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate, only love can do that.
- ML King

One of my wife's favorite actresses
You can tell more about a person by what he says about others than by what others say about him.
- Audrey Hepburn

I'd write more but I need to get back to my wife's bunions.

Light is love and love has nothing to do with punishment. If you dont get jab, no sex is a form of punishment. No jab no job is horrible because with no job, no sex either because you will be a loser on the earth. So the only way out is to roll your sleave up and two jabs for the rest of your life. I will not live that way. Good luck living that kind of life. I bet you sure love your wife....lol

 

[crush]

I think I can fix the problem we have with some men not being a real man. These me like their comfort way too much. When man gets to0 comfortable, well then he takes his eyes of the prize, which is freedom. Dude gets fat and lazy and then sells out to the highest bidder. If the men in NorCal and NY get their act together and wtf up, we can win our freedom. I can say right now no one is free under the vax rules and the threat of getting fired if you say no to injecting foreign mix by Wuhan lab Docs and Dr. Fraud and that fake dude Bill.

 

[watfly]

The vaccinated people in the chain are the weak links. They don’t always break the chain. But they do make it more likely to break. And that’s the goal.

That's unproven, although at best the comparative weakness is not material and certainly not material enough to discriminate against the vaccinated. For all we know unvaccinated healthy people and children are the weaker links.

You appear to be promoting a herd immunity theory, which I get, but we're way past the point of when we were first told we would achieve herd immunity. We've also blown right past multiple turning points that were going to be the end the pandemic. I have to say you're the eternal optimistic, despite being misled time after time by epidemiologists.

 

[kickingandscreaming]

She wrote this, didn't she?

No, she's out for at least 30 minutes after I finish with her bunions.

 

[crush]

No, she's out for at least 30 minutes after I finish with her bunions.

Are you sure you stand behind the great HRC has a better character then t bs? The news keeps getting worse for this evil lady. Responsible for so much death and has so much blood on her hands. Just wait man. Please at least be humble when I'm right again that t was the only one who could take these monsters out.

Gregg Jarrett: The Hillary Clinton crony behind the phony dossier identified in Durham indictment
The genesis of the smear against Trump came from Hillary herself as a strategy to distract from her own email scandal

 

[kickingandscreaming]

Light is love and love has nothing to do with punishment. If you dont get jab, no sex is a form of punishment. No jab no job is horrible because with no job, no sex either because you will be a loser on the earth. So the only way out is to roll your sleave up and two jabs for the rest of your life. I will not live that way. Good luck living that kind of life. I bet you sure love your wife....lol

Other than "I bet you sure love your wife", I have no idea what you are talking about. I got vaccinated before she did and I encouraged her to do so.

I think I can fix the problem we have with some men not being a real man.

So, old school "real man" from a vegetarian who was directed to do so by his wife? I don't know, @crush. That might get you kicked out of the club.

 

[dad4]

You don't even understand your own inputs. I'm talking about the ability of the vaccine to prevent symptomatic infection (and therefore presumably transmission). The data suggests that number is falling over time. So without boosters/natural immunity, you would go from a population that has 80% resistance to infection to 0%. Unless you mandate (quite possibly constant) boosters and/or natural immunity lasts and everyone catches it.

You are the one that keeps throwing around vaccination numbers whenever an example is brought up of an area masked and heavily vaxxed but still having outbreaks. The point is that vaccination number is effectively being reduced on a day over day basis as time drifts forward.

I'm talking about your input (you keep talking about the R calculation) (and geez this sounds exactly like the conversations I used to have with the math/BA types at work).

That must drive them bonkers.

That’s because you keep making assertions that are simply false, such as “if something is decreasing, then it must be decreasing to zero.”

Not true. Not even remotely close to true. Millions of things decrease without getting near zero. The value of my car is decreasing, but not to zero. The value will never drop below the value as scrap metal. My grandmother‘s height was decreasing for the entire time I knew her. But her height never got close to zero. Temperature in Riyadh falls during autumn. Usually not to zero.

So you make your assertion, and there they are, patiently explaining that your numeric intuition is not nearly as strong as you think it is.

 

[Hüsker Dü]

There's a better doc that includes the Cuckoo's Nest, but I can't find it.

Yeah I’ve seen that documentary about the Nest somewhere on Prime.

 

[Hüsker Dü]

So much wrong in this:
A. Not a conservative
B. Charity is not policy
C. Churches can be policy. Eg maybe the pope should tell the priests to preach vaccination. Again it’s a collective action
D. But there’s a distinction between that and morality
E. Dad4 seems more concerned with manners and morality than policy, which more often than not involves coercive force
F. You also make the common liberal fallacy: something must be done…this is something…let’s do this. Do nothing is policy too.

Yes, yes, every man for himself, let’em die in the street.

 

[dad4]

That's unproven, although at best the comparative weakness is not material and certainly not material enough to discriminate against the vaccinated. For all we know unvaccinated healthy people and children are the weaker links.

You appear to be promoting a herd immunity theory, which I get, but we're way past the point of when we were first told we would achieve herd immunity. We've also blown right past multiple turning points that were going to be the end the pandemic. I have to say you're the eternal optimistic, despite being misled time after time by epidemiologists.

Sure. But it doesn’t bug me as much. As soon as I heard that Alpha and Delta had a higher R, I expected a higher herd immunity threshhold. It was one surprise, not two.

I agree that it is annoying that R is super high at the same time as we have a partially effective vaccine. As you’ve noted, it makes herd immunity hard to reach. 8 months ago, I would have hoped that we could hit herd immunity without masks and without needing to impose on the anti-vax folks.

Unfortunately, the disease changed before we could get there.

 

[MicPaPa]

Hopefully you didn't pull any muscles puffing out your chest. Not everyone can be a bad ass like you.

Character impacts effectiveness, that's just reality. Scorched earth policy never works in the long term. Were people too easily offended by Trump, 100%. Are people too easily offended these days, 100%. Does that mean that character doesn't matter to some degree, no. Personally, I believe being offended is on the offended, and not the offender.

Your last quote is quite ironic considering Trump never had much at risk as it was his lenders who primarily held the risk. Not that that's not genius, lets just not pretend that he was some fucking warrior.

That having been said, thank you for your service, both in the military and law enforcement.

You’re overthinking, nothing to do with me or my chest. Rather, it’s about men fulfilling the role of being a Man. I recommend Fearless, Jason Whitlock’s podcast as he nails this point, I would not do it justice.

Again, overthinking, the quote speaks to the protected. Trump would make a terrible warrior, all presidents would, it’s his decisions on behalf of warriors that we trusted. Unfortunately, the personality over policy lesson, as always, is learned hard way.

Enjoy the weekend.

 

[crush]