USWNT Olympic roster announced

watfly said:
Nice strawman argument in regards to Allyson Felix and nice attempt to mischaracterize my argument to serve your narrative. What an amazing outcome for Allyson. For me its one of the biggest story of the Games, unfortunately so is the Men's 4x100 failure to pass the stick...again.

I'm well aware of Carlos and Smith's substantive efforts prior to the Olympics in regards to human rights. I would also think an expert like you on Carlos and Smith would know that the raised fist was a spontaneous act according to their own accounts, after the event was complete. The fact that they were previously involved in human rights is irrelevant and is not comparable to Rapinoe's kneeling before the game.

It's either your lack of reading comprehension or your desire to promote a narrative, but I never said they lost because they knelt. I said that their kneeling was a sign of Complacency, i.e. lack of focus. I couldn't careless what she was protesting, she could have been protesting against the abuse of puppies, I'd still have the same opinion. I happen to agree with you that age was likely a factor, but I also think there were other contributing factors as the article outlined. So no, they didn't lose because of their politics, but a lack of focus certainly didn't help their performance.
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You said "I don't care what you think of the protests, the fact they made a effort to protest meant their focus wasn't 100% on soccer." Their effort to protest was to kneel a couple times and serve as nominal plaintiffs in a lawsuit to support gender equity. So much non-soccer stuff that was distracting them, unlike Tommy Smith and John Carlos, who told the entire world well in advance that they were going to protest if they won medals, and despite supporting an entire boycott of the games. Seriously, you're intellectually lazy or dishonest if you think Smith and Carlos weren't engaged in some crazy political "distractions" before they ran, and far more so than the WNT.

How was Muhammad Ali able to be so political, including protesting Vietnam being convicted as a traitor, and then going to the Supreme Court, but still able to beat monsters like Joe Frazier and George Foreman? How was Kareem Abdul Jabbar able to become the all time points leader and win a bazillion titles while spending his career supporting civil rights and engaging in protests, including boycotting the '68 games because he wasn't feeling very American after the murder of JFK Jr? How were the Phoenix Suns able to bring out a can of whoop ass on the Spurs in the 2011 playoffs while wearing Los Suns jerseys to protest Arizona's racist anti-immigration bill? How was Reggie White able to win a Super Bowl while also serving as an ordained minister, including repeatedly speaking out only a few months after his church was destroyed in a rash of racist church burnings? Was it because only men can be political but still "100% focused" on their sports? Is it because men can handle such things, but women are too emotional to be able to do both? STFU.
 
GoldenGate said:
You said "I don't care what you think of the protests, the fact they made a effort to protest meant their focus wasn't 100% on soccer." Their effort to protest was to kneel a couple times and serve as nominal plaintiffs in a lawsuit to support gender equity. So much non-soccer stuff that was distracting them, unlike Tommy Smith and John Carlos, who told the entire world well in advance that they were going to protest if they won medals, and despite supporting an entire boycott of the games. Seriously, you're intellectually lazy or dishonest if you think Smith and Carlos weren't engaged in some crazy political "distractions" before they ran, and far more so than the WNT.

How was Muhammad Ali able to be so political, including protesting Vietnam being convicted as a traitor, and then going to the Supreme Court, but still able to beat monsters like Joe Frazier and George Foreman? How was Kareem Abdul Jabbar able to become the all time points leader and win a bazillion titles while spending his career supporting civil rights and engaging in protests, including boycotting the '68 games because he wasn't feeling very American after the murder of JFK Jr? How were the Phoenix Suns able to bring out a can of whoop ass on the Spurs in the 2011 playoffs while wearing Los Suns jerseys to protest Arizona's racist anti-immigration bill? How was Reggie White able to win a Super Bowl while also serving as an ordained minister, including repeatedly speaking out only a few months after his church was destroyed in a rash of racist church burnings? Was it because only men can be political but still "100% focused" on their sports? Is it because men can handle such things, but women are too emotional to be able to do both? STFU.
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Breathe. I'm tired by just reading this..
 
GoldenGate said:
You said "I don't care what you think of the protests, the fact they made a effort to protest meant their focus wasn't 100% on soccer." Their effort to protest was to kneel a couple times and serve as nominal plaintiffs in a lawsuit to support gender equity. So much non-soccer stuff that was distracting them, unlike Tommy Smith and John Carlos, who told the entire world well in advance that they were going to protest if they won medals, and despite supporting an entire boycott of the games. Seriously, you're intellectually lazy or dishonest if you think Smith and Carlos weren't engaged in some crazy political "distractions" before they ran, and far more so than the WNT.

How was Muhammad Ali able to be so political, including protesting Vietnam being convicted as a traitor, and then going to the Supreme Court, but still able to beat monsters like Joe Frazier and George Foreman? How was Kareem Abdul Jabbar able to become the all time points leader and win a bazillion titles while spending his career supporting civil rights and engaging in protests, including boycotting the '68 games because he wasn't feeling very American after the murder of JFK Jr? How were the Phoenix Suns able to bring out a can of whoop ass on the Spurs in the 2011 playoffs while wearing Los Suns jerseys to protest Arizona's racist anti-immigration bill? How was Reggie White able to win a Super Bowl while also serving as an ordained minister, including repeatedly speaking out only a few months after his church was destroyed in a rash of racist church burnings? Was it because only men can be political but still "100% focused" on their sports? Is it because men can handle such things, but women are too emotional to be able to do both? STFU.
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Again you totally miss the point, but I think that's intentional. You're trying to promote a woke narrative, whereas I'm just saying that protesting a cause during your competitive event is a sign of lack of focus on the task at hand. I'm not opining on that impact on the result, just that it's an element of the Complacency, as the author outlined in the article. I encourage anyone who wants to stand up for a cause to do so...on their own time.

I worry you may live a little too close to your forum name and can't cope with opposing opinions and as a result must follow the playbook of name calling. Your last sentence is pure fiction, but hopefully it makes you feel better about your "virtue warrior" status. I'm actually very pro LGBT, but I understand that's incongruent to your monolithic stereotypes.
 
watfly said:
Nice strawman argument in regards to Allyson Felix and nice attempt to mischaracterize my argument to serve your narrative. What an amazing outcome for Allyson. For me its one of the biggest story of the Games, unfortunately so is the Men's 4x100 failure to pass the stick...again.

I'm well aware of Carlos and Smith's substantive efforts prior to the Olympics in regards to human rights. I would also think an expert like you on Carlos and Smith would know that the raised fist was a spontaneous act according to their own accounts, after the event was complete. The fact that they were previously involved in human rights is irrelevant and is not comparable to Rapinoe's kneeling before the game.

It's either your lack of reading comprehension or your desire to promote a narrative, but I never said they lost because they knelt. I said that their kneeling was a sign of Complacency, i.e. lack of focus. I couldn't careless what she was protesting, she could have been protesting against the abuse of puppies, I'd still have the same opinion. I happen to agree with you that age was likely a factor, but I also think there were other contributing factors as the article outlined. So no, they didn't lose because of their politics, but a lack of focus certainly didn't help their performance.
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Saying a lack of focus contributed to their losing is parroting a ridiculous crock of shit political narrative. Rapinoe's been kneeling a while now. Did it just start interfering?

They're older and slower and the lineup was a bit of chaos. Pretty simple.
 
Soccerfan2 said:
Saying a lack of focus contributed to their losing is parroting a ridiculous crock of shit political narrative. Rapinoe's been kneeling a while now. Did it just start interfering?

They're older and slower and the lineup was a bit of chaos. Pretty simple.
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Out of curiosity.. how long has Rapinoe been kneeling? What about the rest of the team? Seems like they stopped for awhile then started again, well some of them did.. some didn't. hmm guess that could be a bit distracting.. some teammates kneeling some not might be on their minds and divide the room a bit. Wonder if they decided before they left the locker room or on the field who was and who wasn't or was it just spontaneous? Don't know how that could cause them to lose focus....
 
tjinaz said:
Out of curiosity.. how long has Rapinoe been kneeling? What about the rest of the team? Seems like they stopped for awhile then started again, well some of them did.. some didn't. hmm guess that could be a bit distracting.. some teammates kneeling some not might be on their minds and divide the room a bit. Wonder if they decided before they left the locker room or on the field who was and who wasn't or was it just spontaneous? Don't know how that could cause them to lose focus....
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I have zero idea what goes on in athlete lives that might or might not distract them. Neither do you. Deciding to assume that something does because you don’t like the thing is an assumption.
 
Soccerfan2 said:
Saying a lack of focus contributed to their losing is parroting a ridiculous crock of shit political narrative. Rapinoe's been kneeling a while now. Did it just start interfering?

They're older and slower and the lineup was a bit of chaos. Pretty simple.
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Good for you for having a strong opinion, but please don't mischaracterize what I've said in order to advance your narrative. If your argument is valid it should be able to stand on its own. I will make it more precise for the reading comprehension challenged. What they were protesting is irrelevant to me (as I said I happen to be pro LGBT), its the act of protesting during the event that makes me question their focus. The reality is none of us know for certain what contributed to their loss, were all just speculating. For some reason though, any mention of their lack of focus due to protesting is a sacred cow and triggering for some.
 
Soccerfan2 said:
I have zero idea what goes on in athlete lives that might or might not distract them. Neither do you. Deciding to assume that something does because you don’t like the thing is an assumption.
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Right.. but something was clearly wrong for a team that was pretty much expected to win gold to do so poorly. It is a viable theory. They should be thinking about the game not about anything else.
 
watfly said:
Good for you for having a strong opinion, but please don't mischaracterize what I've said in order to advance your narrative. If your argument is valid it should be able to stand on its own. I will make it more precise for the reading comprehension challenged. What they were protesting is irrelevant to me (as I said I happen to be pro LGBT), its the act of protesting during the event that makes me question their focus. The reality is none of us know for certain what contributed to their loss, were all just speculating. For some reason though, any mention of their lack of focus due to protesting is a sacred cow and triggering for some.
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Protested during the event? I missed that.
 
I question the too "old" theory for this reason....age is not something that just happens all of a sudden. Decrease in ability due to age typically happens over a length time. How were they not too old to be selected for the team a few months prior to the games and then too old during the games? Was that just a huge coaching mistake that he selected too old of players? Maybe it was good intentions out of loyalty to the older players that he selected. Our opinions regarding the poor results are based on 20/20 hindsight, however, with age you do have some benefit of foresight. The irony is that if they had won we'd be claiming that they won because of their experience. Win = Experience, Lose = Too Old.
 
espola said:
Protested during the event? I missed that.
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He is just digging a deeper hole and made it up. There was no protesting during the event. There was only protesting when they were winning two WCs and going 44 games undefeated. If anything, that means they would have won gold if they protested during the event because obviously they perform much better when they protest, right? Clearly it couldn't have been age finally catching up to them according to Watfly. In comparison, MNT players have never protested anything and played so poorly they couldn't qualify for the Olympics or WC. Clearly it is not protesting and its attendant lack of passion and moral courage that is the problem. We need more strong and outspoken women, just younger ones, if the WNT is to continue dominating.

Even if the WNT had protested during the Olympics, which they didn't, the only way to rationalize that they can't still be 100% focused although that has not been a problem with male athletes, is gender bias. There is no other explanation. He'll never admit it, but he would need to if he ever honestly answered "How then did the WNT manage to win two WCs, go 44 straight games without a loss, and develop into the greatest women's soccer team in history while simultaneously supporting civil rights if it isn't possible to focus 100% on soccer and civil rights at the same time?" I'm sure he also honestly believed Carlos and Smith did not protest before they ran their races, but he clearly never even looked into it because he would have realized how much bs wrong that was had he done so. How does a false assumption like that even pop into someone's head, and so strongly that one doesn't even bother to figure out whether it is even true? Gender bias, probably mixed with a touch of race bias and/or homophobia since fundamentally he is rationalizing why he thinks WNT players should be silent on the issues they support.
 
GoldenGate said:
He is just digging a deeper hole and made it up. There was no protesting during the event. There was only protesting when they were winning two WCs and going 44 games undefeated. If anything, that means they would have won gold if they protested during the event because obviously they perform much better when they protest, right? Clearly it couldn't have been age finally catching up to them according to Watfly. In comparison, MNT players have never protested anything and played so poorly they couldn't qualify for the Olympics or WC. Clearly it is not protesting and its attendant lack of passion and moral courage that is the problem. We need more strong and outspoken women, just younger ones, if the WNT is to continue dominating.

Even if the WNT had protested during the Olympics, which they didn't, the only way to rationalize that they can't still be 100% focused although that has not been a problem with male athletes, is gender bias. There is no other explanation. He'll never admit it, but he would need to if he ever honestly answered "How then did the WNT manage to win two WCs, go 44 straight games without a loss, and develop into the greatest women's soccer team in history while simultaneously supporting civil rights if it isn't possible to focus 100% on soccer and civil rights at the same time?" I'm sure he also honestly believed Carlos and Smith did not protest before they ran their races, but he clearly never even looked into it because he would have realized how much bs wrong that was had he done so. How does a false assumption like that even pop into someone's head, and so strongly that one doesn't even bother to figure out whether it is even true? Gender bias, probably mixed with a touch of race bias and/or homophobia since fundamentally he is rationalizing why he thinks WNT players should be silent on the issues they support.
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It's fair to criticize my opinion about whether the protest impacted their focus, but don't lie about their protest. Their are plenty photos showing them protesting right on the pitch seconds before kickoff.
 
watfly said:
It's fair to criticize my opinion about whether the protest impacted their focus, but don't lie about their protest. Their are plenty photos showing them protesting right on the pitch seconds before kickoff.
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These are professional athletes and protest really had no impact on how they played. They have played so many games while protesting that in no way this was a distraction and at this point it was just part of the warm up. No excuses they just didn't get it done.
 
Tyler Durden said:
These are professional athletes and protest really had no impact on how they played. They have played so many games while protesting that in no way this was a distraction and at this point it was just part of the warm up. No excuses they just didn't get it done.
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Fair. I suspect there were a number of contributing factors. It's not unreasonable to question their focus, an article in Soccer America questioned it. I think it's a cop out to lay the blame primarily on their age.

I don't doubt that the ladies can walk and chew gum at the same time. However, if I were a coach I would prefer that my team be 100% focused on the task at hand seconds before kickoff. Maybe I'm just old school. Personally I think a protest would be more powerful after a winning result. Imagine delaying your celebration to take knee and recognize an issue that is greater than the results of the game. Timing matters.
 
watfly said:
It's fair to criticize my opinion about whether the protest impacted their focus, but don't lie about their protest. Their are plenty photos showing them protesting right on the pitch seconds before kickoff.
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You mean like every other country that knelt before games? Like every men's team in England has done for years? Keep digging.

Those Canadians are the worst, btw. Not only did they kneel before games, but have you seen them kneel in their BLM shirts? I've never seen such a pathetic bunch of unpatriotic "unfocused" losers in my life, especially that disrespectful Fleming woman who also knelt at UCLA. She should not be allowed into our country ever again, am I right? How on earth did she win gold without being able to focus anyway?

watfly said:
Fair. I suspect there were a number of contributing factors. It's not unreasonable to question their focus, an article in Soccer America questioned it. I think it's a cop out to lay the blame primarily on their age.

I don't doubt that the ladies can walk and chew gum at the same time. However, if I were a coach I would prefer that my team be 100% focused on the task at hand seconds before kickoff. Maybe I'm just old school. Personally I think a protest would be more powerful after a winning result. Imagine delaying your celebration to take knee and recognize an issue that is greater than the results of the game. Timing matters.
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Too bad you aren't the WNT coach. We would really love to hear how you "old school" mansplained to the little ladies (who happen to be two time WC winners and holders of the longest string of games without a loss in WNT history) that you know better than them, and how much better they'll play going forward if only they keep their pretty lips shut. Or maybe you should have been the Packers' coach and whipped Reggie White's pansy ass into shape every time that loser lost focus praying before games. Or is it ok to do non-sports things and think non-sports thoughts before a game so long as they happen to be the things you support?

You also clearly have not considered the fact that every one of their protests was after a winning result, starting with the 2015 WC, followed by 2019 WC and then 44 straight games without a loss. It took the WNT a decade of overwhelming dominance and near perfection to establish sufficient credibility to make an impact through their protests.
 
GoldenGate said:
You mean like every other country that knelt before games? Like every men's team in England has done for years? Keep digging.

Those Canadians are the worst, btw. Not only did they kneel before games, but have you seen them kneel in their BLM shirts? I've never seen such a pathetic bunch of unpatriotic "unfocused" losers in my life, especially that disrespectful Fleming woman who also knelt at UCLA. She should not be allowed into our country ever again, am I right? How on earth did she win gold without being able to focus anyway?



Too bad you aren't the WNT coach. We would really love to hear how you "old school" mansplained to the little ladies (who happen to be two time WC winners and holders of the longest string of games without a loss in WNT history) that you know better than them, and how much better they'll play going forward if only they keep their pretty lips shut. Or maybe you should have been the Packers' coach and whipped Reggie White's pansy ass into shape every time that loser lost focus praying before games. Or is it ok to do non-sports things and think non-sports thoughts before a game so long as they happen to be the things you support?

You also clearly have not considered the fact that every one of their protests was after a winning result, starting with the 2015 WC, followed by 2019 WC and then 44 straight games without a loss. It took the WNT a decade of overwhelming dominance and near perfection to establish sufficient credibility to make an impact through their protests.
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Is that you EOTL?
 
GoldenGate said:
You mean like every other country that knelt before games? Like every men's team in England has done for years? Keep digging.

Those Canadians are the worst, btw. Not only did they kneel before games, but have you seen them kneel in their BLM shirts? I've never seen such a pathetic bunch of unpatriotic "unfocused" losers in my life, especially that disrespectful Fleming woman who also knelt at UCLA. She should not be allowed into our country ever again, am I right? How on earth did she win gold without being able to focus anyway?



Too bad you aren't the WNT coach. We would really love to hear how you "old school" mansplained to the little ladies (who happen to be two time WC winners and holders of the longest string of games without a loss in WNT history) that you know better than them, and how much better they'll play going forward if only they keep their pretty lips shut. Or maybe you should have been the Packers' coach and whipped Reggie White's pansy ass into shape every time that loser lost focus praying before games. Or is it ok to do non-sports things and think non-sports thoughts before a game so long as they happen to be the things you support?

You also clearly have not considered the fact that every one of their protests was after a winning result, starting with the 2015 WC, followed by 2019 WC and then 44 straight games without a loss. It took the WNT a decade of overwhelming dominance and near perfection to establish sufficient credibility to make an impact through their protests.
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I appreciate your passion. Hopefully you feel better.

I will say one thing. I'd rather "mansplain" to the women that their focus before the kickoff should be 100% on the game rather than tell them they're past their prime and too old to win a gold medal.
 
watfly said:
It's fair to criticize my opinion about whether the protest impacted their focus, but don't lie about their protest. Their are plenty photos showing them protesting right on the pitch seconds before kickoff.
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Are you referring to the photos of when the whole team knelt before the kickoff of the first game?

(just to be fair, the entire Swedish team and the referee also knelt then)
 
espola said:
Are you referring to the photos of when the whole team knelt before the kickoff of the first game?

(just to be fair, the entire Swedish team and the referee also knelt then)
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As does every team in the EPL, as well England in the Euros. I guess that's why England didn't win that penalty shootout... :rolleyes:
 
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