The Outlaw *BANNED*
PREMIER
Wow... 2 square blocks in Tulsa. Doesn't really compare to everything your folks have burned and destroyed since, does it?
US Soccer Team
- Thread starter MicPaPa
- Start date
Wow... 2 square blocks in Tulsa. Doesn't really compare to everything your folks have burned and destroyed since, does it?
What are you watching after Bundesliga?
Bundesliga has been cool! Watched games live in several of those stadiums and it is an absolutely amazing atmosphere. The crowd sound - overlay is pretty interesting- kinda dulls the surreal nature of a totally empty stadium. Doesn’t look like level of play and intensity has suffered.
gotothebushes
GOLD
Can't wait to see the US SOCCER Team back on the field. I believe this is the thread on soccer! Should be some new faces getting a serious look to make the squad.
gotothebushes
GOLD
I didn't think I would like watching with no fans but I like it. Sound like its a real game so I'm ok with it.
This may be the most articulate post ever written on this forum. Welcome change to all the name calling and hyperbole.Serious question. Aren't people who kneel during the playing of the national anthem in fact doing so as a tactic for the express purpose of eliciting outrage? But for the outrage, how would kneeling during the anthem draw attention to anything? If nobody cared that it was being done, would it have been a good tool to choose? I completely agree that the purpose of the protest has nothing to do with the flag or the military or the anthem for many (others have refused to sing the anthem because they find it, and particularly certain parts of the long form of it, to be racist - it may be about the anthem itself among other things to them, which I find to be perfectly reasonable in that case). But the use of the anthem was an intentional tool to offend people and through that response draw attention to the point of the protest. If Nate Boyer says sitting would not be OK, but kneeling is and Kaepernick accepts that view and thus kneels, would sitting then have made the protest about the flag instead of about police brutality and racial injustice? Why am I am dumbass if I think the tactic is disrespectful? Is Boyer a dumbass because he disagreed with sitting?
Might Sgt. Carney disagree with kneeling? Seems to me like Sgt. Carney would have pretty good standing to take a position on this issue. Maybe he would disagree, maybe he wouldn't. But given his effort to keep the flag off the ground, I think there is a good chance it wouldn't be his preferred tactic. People can reject a tactic without rejecting an idea or a message. I can think murdering George Floyd was disgusting, vicious and criminal and still think burning down business in his name is a bad tactic. And if enough people reject a tactic, it doesn't move forward the idea. I believe in a person's right to burn the flag, spit on the flag, desecrate the flag; it is part of what makes America different and better than those other countries around the world that will, today, kill a person and imprison that person's family for doing it. That doesn't mean I don't wish the athletes who are going to kneel in the future would choose a less divisive tactic. And the more who kneel, the less outrageous it will be, the more numb to it people will become, and the more hardened and closed minded some people will be to the real subject of the protest on the basis of the tactic alone. For many, it gives them an excuse to deflect the real point. Racial justice and equality will require a collective effort across many segments of society. My view is that the ball is moved further, faster and in a more sustainable manner with more collective action, more buy in across those many segments and more respect for each other. Is kneeling accomplishing anything productive? Is shaming Drew Brees accomplishing anything productive? What made a difference in the last two weeks was not Kaepernick or Rapinoe or looting or burning buildings or public contrition from celebrities. What made a difference was the revulsion at seeing George Floyd die as he did and the utter indifference to his life on the face of Chauvin. Kaepernick's socks are a distraction, not a message - at least to those people who do not already agree with him, and isn't it those other people whose minds need to open and change in order to effect the desired outcomes? Otherwise, why would protest be necessary?
I doubt that the America of today is the America that Sgt. Carney was fighting to achieve. The America of his day surely wasn't. But the America he hoped for, well, that's different. That's remarkable. That's aspirational. That is something I wish all of us would hope for and treat with respect. I suppose it comes down to whether people see the flag is a symbol of what America has been or is today as an end product or whether they see it as a symbol of a set of ideas that we should continue to work to achieve. I understand that the lived experience of many causes them to feel differently about the flag than I do. It doesn't make them dumbasses in my mind. It just means I see it differently. I am not sure why it should make me a dumbass or a racist in theirs. My view of America doesn't give me license to take its ideals for granted or to be indifferent if other people do not have the opportunity to live under it with the same safety and opportunity that I do. Making that better in the ways that I can is my responsibility and an obligation to my view of what the flag represents. America isn't perfect, but I still love it, would die protecting it and, most importantly, hope for and believe in its future.
Buddhabman
SILVER ELITE
Premier League on Wednesday.
If you think that racism today is not “bad enough” anymore to merit the kind of actions that are being taken to address it, well, too bad.
That's what I was thinking. Is their a court or is it just random guys who can beat the sh*t out of anyone they say are racist? Pretty much the whites have been found guilty as charged and need to kneel for forgiveness and to show unity? I'm Scottish and and I have a strong belief in Jesus as well. Saint Peter told Cornelius never to bow or kneel (according to some translations)) to any man because he tried to bow to Peter because Peter was on fire with the Holy Spirit and did some cool miracles and Cornelius thought he was a god or at the very least to be worshiped. People worshiped many things back then. Peter set him straight and told him to only bow to Jesus and to get him to only stand. This is a religious issue for a small few in our country as well. Plus the military men and woman who died and served the flag. Deep emotions on each side if you already took a side and make it all about the evil cops. I'm for a new police officer and better training. We need help. Please, anyone, help us on planet earth. TY
I think I was quite clear that I favor independent internal affairs departments, a ban on chokeholds, and mandatory officer cameras that have no off switch.
I do have contempt for people who have time and energy for bricks and matches, but are too lazy to man a phone bank to increase voter registration in Milwaukee.
Very well said dad of 4 under 10. I told so many people that and they tell me to f off, on both sides. Being in the middle is a tough place to be today. The question is are they the silent majority and who will they vote for? Many many are watching the behaviors on each side and will make their vote count Nov 8th. I honestly have no idea who will take the race in Nov. I just want peace and soccer back
Soccer may be a while. Looking forward to the NWSL games when they come on. My kid will tolerate watching a women’s game with me, but rolls her eyes if the guys are playing.Very well said dad of 4 under 10. I told so many people that and they tell me to f off, on both sides. Being in the middle is a tough place to be today. The question is are they the silent majority and who will they vote for? Many many are watching the behaviors on each side and will make their vote count Nov 8th. I honestly have no idea who will take the race in Nov. I just want peace and soccer back
Serious question. Aren't people who kneel during the playing of the national anthem in fact doing so as a tactic for the express purpose of eliciting outrage? But for the outrage, how would kneeling during the anthem draw attention to anything? If nobody cared that it was being done, would it have been a good tool to choose? I completely agree that the purpose of the protest has nothing to do with the flag or the military or the anthem for many (others have refused to sing the anthem because they find it, and particularly certain parts of the long form of it, to be racist - it may be about the anthem itself among other things to them, which I find to be perfectly reasonable in that case). But the use of the anthem was an intentional tool to offend people and through that response draw attention to the point of the protest. If Nate Boyer says sitting would not be OK, but kneeling is and Kaepernick accepts that view and thus kneels, would sitting then have made the protest about the flag instead of about police brutality and racial injustice? Why am I am dumbass if I think the tactic is disrespectful? Is Boyer a dumbass because he disagreed with sitting?
Might Sgt. Carney disagree with kneeling? Seems to me like Sgt. Carney would have pretty good standing to take a position on this issue. Maybe he would disagree, maybe he wouldn't. But given his effort to keep the flag off the ground, I think there is a good chance it wouldn't be his preferred tactic. People can reject a tactic without rejecting an idea or a message. I can think murdering George Floyd was disgusting, vicious and criminal and still think burning down business in his name is a bad tactic. And if enough people reject a tactic, it doesn't move forward the idea. I believe in a person's right to burn the flag, spit on the flag, desecrate the flag; it is part of what makes America different and better than those other countries around the world that will, today, kill a person and imprison that person's family for doing it. That doesn't mean I don't wish the athletes who are going to kneel in the future would choose a less divisive tactic. And the more who kneel, the less outrageous it will be, the more numb to it people will become, and the more hardened and closed minded some people will be to the real subject of the protest on the basis of the tactic alone. For many, it gives them an excuse to deflect the real point. Racial justice and equality will require a collective effort across many segments of society. My view is that the ball is moved further, faster and in a more sustainable manner with more collective action, more buy in across those many segments and more respect for each other. Is kneeling accomplishing anything productive? Is shaming Drew Brees accomplishing anything productive? What made a difference in the last two weeks was not Kaepernick or Rapinoe or looting or burning buildings or public contrition from celebrities. What made a difference was the revulsion at seeing George Floyd die as he did and the utter indifference to his life on the face of Chauvin. Kaepernick's socks are a distraction, not a message - at least to those people who do not already agree with him, and isn't it those other people whose minds need to open and change in order to effect the desired outcomes? Otherwise, why would protest be necessary?
I doubt that the America of today is the America that Sgt. Carney was fighting to achieve. The America of his day surely wasn't. But the America he hoped for, well, that's different. That's remarkable. That's aspirational. That is something I wish all of us would hope for and treat with respect. I suppose it comes down to whether people see the flag is a symbol of what America has been or is today as an end product or whether they see it as a symbol of a set of ideas that we should continue to work to achieve. I understand that the lived experience of many causes them to feel differently about the flag than I do. It doesn't make them dumbasses in my mind. It just means I see it differently. I am not sure why it should make me a dumbass or a racist in theirs. My view of America doesn't give me license to take its ideals for granted or to be indifferent if other people do not have the opportunity to live under it with the same safety and opportunity that I do. Making that better in the ways that I can is my responsibility and an obligation to my view of what the flag represents. America isn't perfect, but I still love it, would die protecting it and, most importantly, hope for and believe in its future.
No, people are not kneeling for the purpose of eliciting outrage or offending people. Rather, the only offense and outrage are from your end because you are outraged and offended by it. Kaepernick, Rapinoe and friends have said many times they did it to draw attention to a incredibly important issue, not because they want to piss people off. In order to reach your conclusion, you need to expressly disregard what they are telling you, including the Marine who made the recommendation to Kaepernick in the first place.
The truth is you do not believe that opposing racism and police brutality is important enough issue to justify the slight imposition on your sensibilities that maybe a handful of people are “imposing” on you for at most 2 1/2 minutes, although you don’t even need to watch it and you weren’t even there for it to bother you. Seriously, a person kneeling for a flag constitutes such a minimal imposition on your or anyone’s life that it’s a joke when people start freaking out like it’s the end of the world. Really, kneeling during the anthem constitutes no burden at all to you other than the burden you make it.
And yes, shaming Drew Brees is absolutely worth it. The more people like him who are “shamed” into keeping their opposition to civil rights to themselves, the fewer will do so in the future. That said, claiming Brees apologized because he was shamed significantly misrepresents what happened. He went public with his poorly-considered opinion and, in response, a number of his teammates offered their opinion, and did so very civilly. Drew issued his apology not because he was hammered on Twitter by the horde, but because he was educated by more thoughtful and civil teammates. So, when you claim that Brees was “shamed” into issuing an apology, it does a huge disservice to those who did anything but shame him into changing his feeling. It minimizes the civility of those who expressed an opinion that you just don’t want to hear. It allows to continue the false narrative that those “on the other side” aren’t civil, although 99.9% of them are. I know it’s a great excuse to ignore what they’re doing (and how) because someone else threw a brick through a window or burned down a Wendy’s, but it’s still just an excuse to avoid confronting what millions of people are saying in exactly the manner you claim they should.
It also does Brees himself a huge disservice by ignoring the admirable fact that he actually did change his mind. Claiming he was “shamed” is the only way for bigots to rationalize their disappointment that someone they believed to be on “their side” actually learned something that isn’t what they want to hear. It’s the same reasoning that people use to claim Biden was buddies with “Klan leader” Robert Byrd. They aren’t offended Byrd was a horrible bigot, they are using it to claim Biden is a hypocrite although at the time of the photo Bird had made huge strides to evolve and turn away from his previously hateful positions. And, although Byrd remained deeply flawed until the day he died, it ignores the very admirable quality in Biden that he continued to work with flawed people who were at least learning, and that he was also evolving as he became more educated. They ignore all of that because they are more interested in misrepresenting everything about the photograph so that they can make themselves feel better by rationalizing that maybe liberals are just as hateful as them, so it’s therefore ok to photoshop genitals onto Michelle Obama and make watermelon cracks while simultaneously claiming they aren’t racists.
If you were sincere in claiming you want America to be a better place, stop telling people to STFU or ignoring them when they civilly highlight issues that hold equal rights back, whether its Kaepernick and Rapinoe kneeling or New Orleans Saints expressing their opinions.
Maybe someday you will learn that what you want - - no kneeling or “bothering” you about the issue of racism that isn’t important to you - is never going to happen. Rather, your constant whining about it and refusal to accept the legitimacy of their cause only leads to more bricks. And, because I and others are done being polite, when they photoshop genitals onto Michelle Obama for no reason other than to be a**hole racists, they get bricks. And but for the fact that Brees apologized, they’d also get photoshopped photos of his vagina, just like all the the whiny p**sies who can’t handle kneeling.
MacDre
PREMIER
I don’t think they are too lazy. I think people are sick and tired of being sick and tired. There are just as many issues with voting rights as there are with bad cops. Have you seen the long lines at the polls in minority areas of Georgia vs. white areas? Why do we still have the electoral college which negates minority votes? Why do you think people want to continue participating in a rigged voting system? I’m sure more people would get excited about voting if the system was fair.
Very well said dad of 4 under 10. I told so many people that and they tell me to f off, on both sides. Being in the middle is a tough place to be today. The question is are they the silent majority and who will they vote for? Many many are watching the behaviors on each side and will make their vote count Nov 8th. I honestly have no idea who will take the race in Nov. I just want peace and soccer back
Somebody feels desperately left out of the debate.
It’s Nov. 3rd by the way.
A true right winger is either a racist or a nationalist.
Our political spectrum has Fascism on the right and Communism on the left. WWII was fought over this with the Axis on the side of the Fascists (Germany/Italy/Japan) vs the Communist (Russia USA, UK, China -- with the latter 3 more or less dragged into the war to help the Communists).
On the right wing, the idea is class cooperation among the different social class, however class antagonism against the people of other races or nationality. This idea is well written and shown by Hitler. Class cooperation among the Germans. Poor Germans work hand in hand with rich Germans for the good of the nation against the common enemy. The enemy of Nazi Germany were the Jews and Communism. Hitler really hated Communism believing that communism with its dead weight on democracy is a conspiracy by the Jews to give power to the inferior masses thus undermining the "aristocratic principle of nature" which is so necessary for any society to survive. This pretty much makes every true right winger a racist or nationalist.
It is hard to find a TRUE left winger who is racist. The reason is left wingers (the true communists), believes that class antagonism is between the poor vs rich. If you recall, Marx had even said "workers of the world unite". As Marx illustrated in the book Capital, Capitalism is the best form of system to generate wealth. Capitalism is also the best form to generate technological progress. But as time goes on, the working class will be squeezed further and further by this system eventually leading to the demise of the working class by the capitalists. The system requires this exploitation to progress. Exploitation of the working class is a feature of the Capitalistic system.
In US politics there are many marriages of convenience. Not all Democrats are left wingers. Right wingers do not mix. A right wing Muslim does not buddy up with a right wing Christian. So the right wing Muslim finds himself in the Democrat party. This is just an example in case the right winger thinks all Democrats are left wing. In fact, Democrats in general(like Obama) are middle of the right, not left wing.
Didn't you see the statement by the Seahawks coach explaining why the didn't hire him in 2017 after a tryout? They thought he was too good to be a backup behind Russel Wilson, and assumed he would get hired by some other team
For example - black people who are descendants of slaves can now vote and even run for office. In some places in the south black mayors who are descendants of slaves have hired city workers (policemen even) who are descendants of slave owners.
Thank you for honestly displaying the depth of your thinking.
You know what, I had my dates mixed up.
What is celebrated on November 8th?
NATIONAL CAPPUCCINO DAY. National Cappuccino Day on November 8th whips up a frothy, hot cup of cappuccino. It's a perfect drink on a frosty morning, meeting with friends or just to enjoy a creamy cuppa. ... In 1945 Achille Gaggia invented the modern espresso machine which further popularized the cappuccino