Of course let coaches/programs decide on the system they implement on the field. But create a curriculum that fosters creativity, vision, IQ, skill, an understanding of positions, and team play. Replace building a team around a player, individual play, and so much more.
US Men's National Team - what went wrong?
- Thread starter Hired Gun
- Start date
Well said- The fact that professional teams outside of the US can swoop in and land our players for next to nothing is a broken system. Mexico's pro teams laugh at us that we do not have our players contracted to development fees etc.
The first thing at the pay to play level is the creation of the development fee contract so that the ability to pay for elite training takes the back burner to actual development. If there is transfer money at the end of the tunnel youth teams will work harder to actually teach instead of winning U10 championships at the cost of development.
SoccerFrenzy
SILVER ELITE
Is it true that DA now has soccer IQ classes?
MakeAPlay
DA
I'm on the Eric Wynalda train.... Make American Soccer Great
Everything all have said here on this thread rings true, but no matter what happens a curriculum is needed to guide all programs without it nothing will change.
Ha! Don't know my kids are not old enough to be in DA.
But you can't do that as long as you have a system, especially in the early years, where winning is so important. I wrote about my dear niece's 2007 team, for example, where the parents are up in arms because the coaches are rotating the position instead of placing their strong striker up top and the other kids in 1 position so they can win. Teams build around a player and individual play because they can win that way. If they win, the coaches keep their jobs. If they win, the club can brag about producing winning teams, and create B, C, and D teams that bring more revenue. I'm a parent that thinks competition is good for kids and that the days of everyone takes a trophy were bad. But I also see that the emphasis we've placed on winning at the lower youth levels is detrimental to our producing soccer IQ at the upper levels.
A few ramblings:
1. US Soccer really pooped the bed on this one. With the current issues surrounding the NFL (Flags, concussions and loss of viewers), NCAA basketball (who knows what will wind up happening here. If the NBA starts a true developmental league for 18-22 year olds, NCAA basketball will see a real decline in talent and viewers) and Baseball (I didn't even realize that the playoffs have started. I haven't paid attention to baseball in years)... US Soccer had a chance to grab a fanbase and grow with some casual fans. These fans might not know a ton about soccer, but they love to watch the Red, White and Blue play. They would buy $90 replica jerseys. They'd watch games glued to Fox Television. They might even start to understand the offside rule.
The only money that is really going into TV advertising these days is for live (sports) TV. Nobody watches commercials any longer.
2. The US Sports media is also losing out. All of these former NFL and NBA guys that do sports radio are making jokes this morning about soccer while talking about how devastating a loss last night was. What these knuckleheads don't realize, is that the decline in viewership for NFL, NCAA and MLB will have an impact on their industry too. Soccer could have pumped some more money into their side of the business.
3. The US had been known for years for producing world class goal keepers. Howard, Guzan, Keller, Meola, Friedel, Rimando (maybe). Was Howard the last great american GK?
4. How do we not have a center mid? That is the position that every parent wants their 10 year old playing. "Joey plays defense, but he really belongs as a center mid" can be heard 1,000's of times a weekend across the US.
5. The players on the field last night. Many of them had great moments over the last 15 years. Last night cemented the legacy for many of them as "crappy players". (Bradley, Howard, Besler, Jozy and Omar should be excused from any further US National Team calls ups). We shouldn't need to have 3 players with more than 110 caps. That means there is nobody coming up behind them.
6. Sucks that John Brooks was hurt. When is he set to return? Seems he's been out for a long time. Him at 80% might have been better than Besler or Gonzalez.
7. Zardes has a horrible touch, but works his butt off. Too bad he got hurt last week.
8. Dom Dwyer had a very nice Gold Cup. His work rate was off the charts. Why didn't he get a look at a call up for this cycle?
9. Has our Development Academy approach made us soft? Are we trying so hard to develop great touch and creativity that we have forgotten about grit and heart? A lot of chatter about "Development over winning". I believe that this is a good concept. But we also need to "Develop a winning mentality." When Pulisic is fouled every time he touches the ball and there is no retaliation, that's BS.
10. About developing a good touch and soccer IQ - I get that this should start at an early age. But how can a player not continue to improve here later in life? I play adult soccer. I'm a hack at best. But at 43 years old, my touch improves the more that I play.
Let's put it in terms of other sports:
Michael Jordan - Did NOT have an outside shot his first few years in the league. Guess what? He worked his a$$ off to improve that part of his game.
Draymond Green - Not big enough. Not fast enough. Played all 4 years in college. Was a 2nd round pick. Didn't play much his first 2 years in the league. Didn't become a starter until his 3rd year. Didn't make an all-star team until his 5th year. He worked his butt off and is now considered the most versatile player in the NBA.
Tom Brady - 6th round pick. Only started because Drew Bledsoe got hurt. He was the 4th string QB his first season.
11. Tactics, lineup, strategy - Whatever. You can blame Arena for some of that. But players need to make plays. You need to win the ball in 1v1s. You need to make that off the ball run. You need to anticipate what's going to happen next. Coaches shouldn't need to remind National Team players of this. Playing with 3 days of rest should not be an excuse at this level. I don't care if you had to fly to Trinidad and practice on a wet field.
12. MLS - Not a great league for American players to get to a world class level. But MLS has elevated the game for the Central American nations. I'm no expert in Central America soccer leagues, but I have to imagine that playing and living in the United States is preferred to playing and living in Panama, Honduras or Trinidad. Even at $75k a year in the MLS, it's got to be better than playing part time in a 3rd world country where you might need to work in a field farming bananas during the off-season.
Some argue that promotion / relegation is needed in the US. I'm not sold on this idea. But we do need to do more to further the play of American players. Teams spend millions on aging Euro stars to have a 2-3 year retirement tour across the United States. And a guy on that same team will make $60k as a domestic hanger-on. That $60k a year guy could make more money as a youth club coach.
The US fan base is increasing. Look at the sellout crowds when Euro teams play exhibition games in the US. We are selling out the Big House in Michigan, the Coliseum in LA and just about any other big American Football stadium in the country. There is passion there if we put out a good product.
13. Youth Development. The "best" youth coaches are guys with British accents. If they are such great coaches, then why are they in the US? Why don't they stay in the UK and coach at the youth academy level in Europe? We are getting glorified British gym teachers over here. Why don't we have more Brazilian coaches working with our kids? Why don't we have more Argentinian coaches? French coaches? German coaches? There are quite a few Eastern European guys coaching around South OC. I'm not talking about guys like them.
What are we doing to improve coaching education? Our licensing system is expensive. Our license system is "pass a test". It doesn't teach anything. It's just a knowledge check. Why don't we have on-going (free) seminars for coaches to learn and network?
Free play- Instead of hosting 10 tournaments every weekend in the summer, there should be options for free play. Forget a tournament. Announce that the 3rd Saturday of each month, there will be a free for all at Oceanside, Great Park and Norco. Show up by 9 am. You'll get placed on a team with kids your same age but a variety of skill levels. There will be 11 kids on each team. Game will play for 20 minutes. You'll play 2 games with the team you were assigned. Then you'll get assigned to a new group and play 2 more games. Then you'll do the same thing on Sunday. This will cost $20 per player. A colored training bib will be provided for each team that you get assigned too. Referees will be there to keep players safe and fouls will be called VERY tight. No standings or stats will be kept.
Pay-to-Play- I don't see us adopting "solidarity payments" anytime soon. Coaches need to get paid. Referees need to get paid. Administrators need to get paid. Facilities need to be rented. We have to find a way to keep our costs lower for all level of players. Do we really need $300 worth of uniforms, $700 EZ-Ups and extensive travel costs to get kids playing at a high level?
We need to find sponsors that will allow kids to play for "almost free." Fox Sports 1 is a sponsor of AYSO. Since this sponsorship, I have not seen AYSO fees go down. Where is this money going?
I see some clubs with logos on their jerseys. Where does this money go? I think those players are still paying $2,000+ to play for that club.
College -We have formed leagues and tournaments to make it easier for college scouts to find players. Kids travel to Vegas, Nor Cal and Texas in hopes of catching the eye of a D1 scout. There has to be a better way. Put the responsibility back on the college coaches to find players. Let the Power 5 Conferences create their own tournaments (free of charge) for teams to play in. Invite any coach that wants to attend, but make them pay to attend. This will cover the tournament costs. Let the players stay in dorms (For free). Find a title sponsor to provide a "training table" for food. If parents want to watch, they can pay for their own room and board.
That's all for now. Maybe I'll submit this along with my application to take over Sunil's post when he is hung out to dry.
1. US Soccer really pooped the bed on this one. With the current issues surrounding the NFL (Flags, concussions and loss of viewers), NCAA basketball (who knows what will wind up happening here. If the NBA starts a true developmental league for 18-22 year olds, NCAA basketball will see a real decline in talent and viewers) and Baseball (I didn't even realize that the playoffs have started. I haven't paid attention to baseball in years)... US Soccer had a chance to grab a fanbase and grow with some casual fans. These fans might not know a ton about soccer, but they love to watch the Red, White and Blue play. They would buy $90 replica jerseys. They'd watch games glued to Fox Television. They might even start to understand the offside rule.
The only money that is really going into TV advertising these days is for live (sports) TV. Nobody watches commercials any longer.
2. The US Sports media is also losing out. All of these former NFL and NBA guys that do sports radio are making jokes this morning about soccer while talking about how devastating a loss last night was. What these knuckleheads don't realize, is that the decline in viewership for NFL, NCAA and MLB will have an impact on their industry too. Soccer could have pumped some more money into their side of the business.
3. The US had been known for years for producing world class goal keepers. Howard, Guzan, Keller, Meola, Friedel, Rimando (maybe). Was Howard the last great american GK?
4. How do we not have a center mid? That is the position that every parent wants their 10 year old playing. "Joey plays defense, but he really belongs as a center mid" can be heard 1,000's of times a weekend across the US.
5. The players on the field last night. Many of them had great moments over the last 15 years. Last night cemented the legacy for many of them as "crappy players". (Bradley, Howard, Besler, Jozy and Omar should be excused from any further US National Team calls ups). We shouldn't need to have 3 players with more than 110 caps. That means there is nobody coming up behind them.
6. Sucks that John Brooks was hurt. When is he set to return? Seems he's been out for a long time. Him at 80% might have been better than Besler or Gonzalez.
7. Zardes has a horrible touch, but works his butt off. Too bad he got hurt last week.
8. Dom Dwyer had a very nice Gold Cup. His work rate was off the charts. Why didn't he get a look at a call up for this cycle?
9. Has our Development Academy approach made us soft? Are we trying so hard to develop great touch and creativity that we have forgotten about grit and heart? A lot of chatter about "Development over winning". I believe that this is a good concept. But we also need to "Develop a winning mentality." When Pulisic is fouled every time he touches the ball and there is no retaliation, that's BS.
10. About developing a good touch and soccer IQ - I get that this should start at an early age. But how can a player not continue to improve here later in life? I play adult soccer. I'm a hack at best. But at 43 years old, my touch improves the more that I play.
Let's put it in terms of other sports:
Michael Jordan - Did NOT have an outside shot his first few years in the league. Guess what? He worked his a$$ off to improve that part of his game.
Draymond Green - Not big enough. Not fast enough. Played all 4 years in college. Was a 2nd round pick. Didn't play much his first 2 years in the league. Didn't become a starter until his 3rd year. Didn't make an all-star team until his 5th year. He worked his butt off and is now considered the most versatile player in the NBA.
Tom Brady - 6th round pick. Only started because Drew Bledsoe got hurt. He was the 4th string QB his first season.
11. Tactics, lineup, strategy - Whatever. You can blame Arena for some of that. But players need to make plays. You need to win the ball in 1v1s. You need to make that off the ball run. You need to anticipate what's going to happen next. Coaches shouldn't need to remind National Team players of this. Playing with 3 days of rest should not be an excuse at this level. I don't care if you had to fly to Trinidad and practice on a wet field.
12. MLS - Not a great league for American players to get to a world class level. But MLS has elevated the game for the Central American nations. I'm no expert in Central America soccer leagues, but I have to imagine that playing and living in the United States is preferred to playing and living in Panama, Honduras or Trinidad. Even at $75k a year in the MLS, it's got to be better than playing part time in a 3rd world country where you might need to work in a field farming bananas during the off-season.
Some argue that promotion / relegation is needed in the US. I'm not sold on this idea. But we do need to do more to further the play of American players. Teams spend millions on aging Euro stars to have a 2-3 year retirement tour across the United States. And a guy on that same team will make $60k as a domestic hanger-on. That $60k a year guy could make more money as a youth club coach.
The US fan base is increasing. Look at the sellout crowds when Euro teams play exhibition games in the US. We are selling out the Big House in Michigan, the Coliseum in LA and just about any other big American Football stadium in the country. There is passion there if we put out a good product.
13. Youth Development. The "best" youth coaches are guys with British accents. If they are such great coaches, then why are they in the US? Why don't they stay in the UK and coach at the youth academy level in Europe? We are getting glorified British gym teachers over here. Why don't we have more Brazilian coaches working with our kids? Why don't we have more Argentinian coaches? French coaches? German coaches? There are quite a few Eastern European guys coaching around South OC. I'm not talking about guys like them.
What are we doing to improve coaching education? Our licensing system is expensive. Our license system is "pass a test". It doesn't teach anything. It's just a knowledge check. Why don't we have on-going (free) seminars for coaches to learn and network?
Free play- Instead of hosting 10 tournaments every weekend in the summer, there should be options for free play. Forget a tournament. Announce that the 3rd Saturday of each month, there will be a free for all at Oceanside, Great Park and Norco. Show up by 9 am. You'll get placed on a team with kids your same age but a variety of skill levels. There will be 11 kids on each team. Game will play for 20 minutes. You'll play 2 games with the team you were assigned. Then you'll get assigned to a new group and play 2 more games. Then you'll do the same thing on Sunday. This will cost $20 per player. A colored training bib will be provided for each team that you get assigned too. Referees will be there to keep players safe and fouls will be called VERY tight. No standings or stats will be kept.
Pay-to-Play- I don't see us adopting "solidarity payments" anytime soon. Coaches need to get paid. Referees need to get paid. Administrators need to get paid. Facilities need to be rented. We have to find a way to keep our costs lower for all level of players. Do we really need $300 worth of uniforms, $700 EZ-Ups and extensive travel costs to get kids playing at a high level?
We need to find sponsors that will allow kids to play for "almost free." Fox Sports 1 is a sponsor of AYSO. Since this sponsorship, I have not seen AYSO fees go down. Where is this money going?
I see some clubs with logos on their jerseys. Where does this money go? I think those players are still paying $2,000+ to play for that club.
College -We have formed leagues and tournaments to make it easier for college scouts to find players. Kids travel to Vegas, Nor Cal and Texas in hopes of catching the eye of a D1 scout. There has to be a better way. Put the responsibility back on the college coaches to find players. Let the Power 5 Conferences create their own tournaments (free of charge) for teams to play in. Invite any coach that wants to attend, but make them pay to attend. This will cover the tournament costs. Let the players stay in dorms (For free). Find a title sponsor to provide a "training table" for food. If parents want to watch, they can pay for their own room and board.
That's all for now. Maybe I'll submit this along with my application to take over Sunil's post when he is hung out to dry.
I'll answer the goalkeeping part of your post.
First of all, last night wasn't Howard's fault. Howard is beginning to show signs of his age, and this was probably his last hurrah, but there wasn't much he could do with either of those goals. US goalkeeping has always developed on the assumption that since we have so many kids that play sports that catch (football, baseball, basketball), it's easy to convert one of those players into a goalkeeper. And US goalkeepers have been very well known for being keepers that catch, as opposed to players that punch all the time like in Europe. The problem with that first the change in the backpass rule, and then the rise of Neuer have changed all that. Goalkeeping has changed radically in the last 5 years, as has what they are expected to do. You see it in the LA Galaxy keepers....Diop is the classic European keeper that is most comfortable sitting on his line....either someone has told him to play out of the box or he's decided to imitate Neuer but he's not physically or by training suited to that style (at least not yet) and it's led time and time to disaster. Rowe is the classic American keeper blocking with his legs and trying to catch it, but he can't really support the attack the way a sweeper-keeper can. In the 90s, the kids that were recruited to play the role were big lugs who were often slow but could battle on the cross, English style. In the 00's, they were giants, particularly in Europe, that were taught to not leave but to sit on their lines. Everything has changed now, and speed and agility are the most vital aspect of a keeper....the training even in the US is changing along with it (my son recently switched form a 40 year old goalkeeper coach that taught him to bend his knee on the ground ball and he's switched to a younger one that wants him to forward dive on it, for example). The US has to decide whether it's going to keep producing American-style goalkeepers like Rowe, or whether its going to switch to a sweeper-keeper format. So, they'll be a break before we get some worldclass goalkeepers again, and one of the changes US soccer needs to do is improving the education of American goalkeepers (or something we did well in the past will become something we were passed by as the rest of the world evolves).Great post Timbuck. Let me give you a story for you all. Our B2008 Blue team for the last 2 years has been getting its ass handed to them 6,8,10-zip. This year we have been beating all those teams by 4,5,6 zip. These kids have been drilled the Barca possession way for the past 3 seasons by an American coach that grew up here in SoCal, that didn't grow up playing possession but saw the writing on the wall 10 years ago that that was the wave of the future. 2 years ago ( he happens to be our DOC and we got a slew of coaches teaching the same thing) he got the parents (the whole f'ing key) to buy in and realize that we are going to get our asses handed to us for a few years but you just wait cause right now just doesn't matter as long as we get the foundation right. Now we have to shut the jets off typically at half and knock the ball around in the second half. Last week we were playing a team from the inland empire and this exact scenario played out. The other coach was actually doing a fantastic job trying to get his team to play he just wasn't there yet. After the game he asked our coach how the hell did you get those kids to play like that. He told them the story. He also told that coach he was doing a great job. As folks were walking out to the parking lot a parent from the other team started berating that coach because they lost and that he was a horrible coach. One of our parents overheard the conversation went over to that other coach and said "Coach you could coach our kids anytime cause you're trying to do it right". I think this sums up the situation in the US pretty damn good.
MakeAPlay
DA
I'll answer the goalkeeping part of your post.
Kevin Silva is going to be our next great keeper. I will be surprised if he returns for his junior year at UCLA.
Sheriff Joe
DA
Good enough for me.
I'm sure this happened.
I was so glad LAG traded OG and Z-German dropped him because he was to slow. BA had other options that would have been better like Matt Miazga. Like the article, blunt.
I'll answer the goalkeeping part of your post.
Howard jumped too early on the own goal. Howard was out of position on the strike 20 yards outside the box. Not sure how you don't put some blame on him. Any EPL keeper would have made both those saves.
I've said this in other posts, but the US is lacking vs. soccer culture nations 1) massive numbers of talented kids playing street soccer (which is basically small sided soccer) for fun 3-4 hrs. per day. There are so many legendary players that developed their dribbling and 1v1 skills on the streets before even setting foot in an academy. 2) Legit academies that refine these already highly skilled players teaching them how to pass and off ball movement with speed.
The US academies are catching up to the rest of the world. In fact there are several countries whose academies are getting better, as they are all copying the systems that Cruyff developed at Ajax and Barcelona. But until we can get better raw talent into the academy pipeline, great athletes with brilliant individual "street" flair developed from thousands of hours of playing for fun against other fantastic street players, our brand of soccer is going to be very plain vanilla, and reliant upon athleticism and work rate to win games.
The US academies are catching up to the rest of the world. In fact there are several countries whose academies are getting better, as they are all copying the systems that Cruyff developed at Ajax and Barcelona. But until we can get better raw talent into the academy pipeline, great athletes with brilliant individual "street" flair developed from thousands of hours of playing for fun against other fantastic street players, our brand of soccer is going to be very plain vanilla, and reliant upon athleticism and work rate to win games.
MakeAPlay
DA
Sir I remember our conversations when our players were U11 about the coming wave. You predicted it then and unfortunately like when Sir Edmund Halley predicted the comet would come back after his death. You sir as I said then have great foresight.
Such a cop out. The mythical "street skills" argument. Are you talking about 7 year olds? Because there are no EPL players who were playing "street soccer" at 14 years old. They were identified and put into a structured training environment. I don't know what kind of "street soccer" you played but mine consisted of slide tackles, hard fouls and kickball. Superior players would benefit from structured training, not more hours of jungle ball.
I agree with you that too much is placed on winning and the extents that are made to do so. Most of the emphasis of winning comes from clubs/coaches/parents. And, yes as Americans we like to win. Yet, we are talking about the US Soccer Federation who is at a low time and faced with the reality that the USMNT is not good enough and in many respects has not been for a very long time. We also are beginning to see that USWNT is having issues as well. To continue to progress forward and not deal with the problems that plague US Soccer are disastrous. At the heart of the issue is that our players can't compete. So, how does a federation fix this? Change what is being taught. Give them the tools to do so. Start there and when that is established address the other challenges like the mentality of winning at all costs.
You know what they say.... Everyone has an opinion, just like they have an a-hole....
So heres mine. The loss last night, hopefully, will flush just about everyone currently is anyone in the USSF making national team decisions.
A clean slate is needed and a smaller and less grand approach to build a critical mass, and not a national program that spends over $1 billion/yr between USSoccer and MLS.
I am certain that we can field 18 USA players that would have won last night and much more under the different decision makers. Players exist and so do the coaches TODAY.
The critical mass needs to be VERY small, hand selected and with a single focus. Not the big deal DA system or ODP and so on. There are more talented players outside of these system because these systems only focuses on key metrics (e.g., speed, size, workrate and so on), and not enough on intangibles.
First, find a coach that has brilliant tactical mind and creativity.
Second, go around the country and hand select 25~30 players with creativity and technical skills that are intelligent with very high soccer IQ. Unfortunately, most of DA players are coached under strict format and methods, such that any creatively they might have had has been washed out of them.
Third, co-located these players for the next U23 Olympic qualifier. Not bring them only together for national pool regional session but live, breath and eat soccer together.
Keep them out of media and have them only scrimmage professional teams out of sight from public with no reporting to the media.
We've tried big system's approach filled with lots of issues. Give a smaller, skunkworks-like approach and see how we do.
So heres mine. The loss last night, hopefully, will flush just about everyone currently is anyone in the USSF making national team decisions.
A clean slate is needed and a smaller and less grand approach to build a critical mass, and not a national program that spends over $1 billion/yr between USSoccer and MLS.
I am certain that we can field 18 USA players that would have won last night and much more under the different decision makers. Players exist and so do the coaches TODAY.
The critical mass needs to be VERY small, hand selected and with a single focus. Not the big deal DA system or ODP and so on. There are more talented players outside of these system because these systems only focuses on key metrics (e.g., speed, size, workrate and so on), and not enough on intangibles.
First, find a coach that has brilliant tactical mind and creativity.
Second, go around the country and hand select 25~30 players with creativity and technical skills that are intelligent with very high soccer IQ. Unfortunately, most of DA players are coached under strict format and methods, such that any creatively they might have had has been washed out of them.
Third, co-located these players for the next U23 Olympic qualifier. Not bring them only together for national pool regional session but live, breath and eat soccer together.
Keep them out of media and have them only scrimmage professional teams out of sight from public with no reporting to the media.
We've tried big system's approach filled with lots of issues. Give a smaller, skunkworks-like approach and see how we do.