US Men's National Team - what went wrong?

JJP said:
I've said this in other posts, but the US is lacking vs. soccer culture nations 1) massive numbers of talented kids playing street soccer (which is basically small sided soccer) for fun 3-4 hrs. per day. There are so many legendary players that developed their dribbling and 1v1 skills on the streets before even setting foot in an academy. 2) Legit academies that refine these already highly skilled players teaching them how to pass and off ball movement with speed.

The US academies are catching up to the rest of the world. In fact there are several countries whose academies are getting better, as they are all copying the systems that Cruyff developed at Ajax and Barcelona. But until we can get better raw talent into the academy pipeline, great athletes with brilliant individual "street" flair developed from thousands of hours of playing for fun against other fantastic street players, our brand of soccer is going to be very plain vanilla, and reliant upon athleticism and work rate to win games.
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Such a cop out. The mythical "street skills" argument. Are you talking about 7 year olds? Because there are no EPL players who were playing "street soccer" at 14 years old. They were identified and put into a structured training environment. I don't know what kind of "street soccer" you played but mine consisted of slide tackles, hard fouls and kickball. Superior players would benefit from structured training, not more hours of jungle ball.
 
Grace T. said:
But you can't do that as long as you have a system, especially in the early years, where winning is so important. I wrote about my dear niece's 2007 team, for example, where the parents are up in arms because the coaches are rotating the position instead of placing their strong striker up top and the other kids in 1 position so they can win. Teams build around a player and individual play because they can win that way. If they win, the coaches keep their jobs. If they win, the club can brag about producing winning teams, and create B, C, and D teams that bring more revenue. I'm a parent that thinks competition is good for kids and that the days of everyone takes a trophy were bad. But I also see that the emphasis we've placed on winning at the lower youth levels is detrimental to our producing soccer IQ at the upper levels.
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I agree with you that too much is placed on winning and the extents that are made to do so. Most of the emphasis of winning comes from clubs/coaches/parents. And, yes as Americans we like to win. Yet, we are talking about the US Soccer Federation who is at a low time and faced with the reality that the USMNT is not good enough and in many respects has not been for a very long time. We also are beginning to see that USWNT is having issues as well. To continue to progress forward and not deal with the problems that plague US Soccer are disastrous. At the heart of the issue is that our players can't compete. So, how does a federation fix this? Change what is being taught. Give them the tools to do so. Start there and when that is established address the other challenges like the mentality of winning at all costs.
 
You know what they say.... Everyone has an opinion, just like they have an a-hole....

So heres mine. The loss last night, hopefully, will flush just about everyone currently is anyone in the USSF making national team decisions.

A clean slate is needed and a smaller and less grand approach to build a critical mass, and not a national program that spends over $1 billion/yr between USSoccer and MLS.

I am certain that we can field 18 USA players that would have won last night and much more under the different decision makers. Players exist and so do the coaches TODAY.

The critical mass needs to be VERY small, hand selected and with a single focus. Not the big deal DA system or ODP and so on. There are more talented players outside of these system because these systems only focuses on key metrics (e.g., speed, size, workrate and so on), and not enough on intangibles.

First, find a coach that has brilliant tactical mind and creativity.

Second, go around the country and hand select 25~30 players with creativity and technical skills that are intelligent with very high soccer IQ. Unfortunately, most of DA players are coached under strict format and methods, such that any creatively they might have had has been washed out of them.

Third, co-located these players for the next U23 Olympic qualifier. Not bring them only together for national pool regional session but live, breath and eat soccer together.

Keep them out of media and have them only scrimmage professional teams out of sight from public with no reporting to the media.

We've tried big system's approach filled with lots of issues. Give a smaller, skunkworks-like approach and see how we do.
 
JoeBieber said:
Such a cop out. The mythical "street skills" argument. Are you talking about 7 year olds? Because there are no EPL players who were playing "street soccer" at 14 years old. They were identified and put into a structured training environment. I don't know what kind of "street soccer" you played but mine consisted of slide tackles, hard fouls and kickball. Superior players would benefit from structured training, not more hours of jungle ball.
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Guys like Zidane, Wayne Rooney had already developed their skills playing pickup games, on streets, parking lots, basketball courts, before they entered academy. There are tons of kids playing futsal or street soccer after school for hours every day in Brazilian favelas, all over S. America and in European cities.

You would be amazed at the incredible talent you see in a pickup game in any major French city. European academies are not building kids from the ground up, they are selecting the cream from a pool of very talented, self developed players.
 
JoeBieber said:
Such a cop out. The mythical "street skills" argument. Are you talking about 7 year olds? Because there are no EPL players who were playing "street soccer" at 14 years old. They were identified and put into a structured training environment. I don't know what kind of "street soccer" you played but mine consisted of slide tackles, hard fouls and kickball. Superior players would benefit from structured training, not more hours of jungle ball.
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This is right. The street soccer days are over in Europe and are closing in Latin America. Their academies identify much earlier, don't have the competition of college play, and both academics and sports are vigorously tracked sometimes at the expense of so-called late bloomers.
 
JoeBieber said:
Howard jumped too early on the own goal. Howard was out of position on the strike 20 yards outside the box. Not sure how you don't put some blame on him. Any EPL keeper would have made both those saves.
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So now we're blaming the own goal on the keeper? That's also soooo American.

The 2nd goal goes back to the American aspects of his training. EPLs might have handled differently but then American and British keepers aren't taught to emphasize the strikes out of the box...the defensive coverage is supposed to shut that down. not Howard's fault...it's the way he was trained to play...that's a systems not Howard issue. He was where he'd be expected to be in American play and A block from that position would always be hard. Shot shouldn't have come from that place.
 
*GOBEARGO* said:
What is your point?
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I didn't have one, I was just stating a fact. I was responding to a post that was talking about bringing the best players from SoCal together. Thought it was interesting that the U-17 had none, but what that means I have no clue.
 
I will say this..
the current DA system hamstrings the country geographically. There is no a DA in every city. Are you going to tell me the best u16 player in Fresno CA has to drive an 1+ both ways if he wants to play DA? What about Tucson is there no talent there? How about Vegas? We expect the families to move for DA but US Soccer ignores them otherwise. Yes the best pool and depth is here in SoCal but there is hidden talent that will never be scene do to cost and geography.. Our MLS Academies approach players in a region and then tell them to figure out how to get here if they want to play. LAG has a couple like that. I know someone who was going to go to Casa Grande until they found out the cost. The other part of the DA system is that we are a massive country traveling it to play together is difficult. This brings me to who we are as a soccer country. We are gritty, heels dug in not wanting to lose. We are not the most tactical or technical but we play with heart and determination as if we are playing with a chip on our shoulder. Las night the only thing we showed was we are not the most tactical or technical. There were a few players out there that played with heart and passion but others were ready to get on the plane for the $$$$ waiting for them at home. Let's get back to our roots and give a S.
Also, US Soccer give a core of training goals but let teams play how they want. Let a team in TX play with what fits them... let LAG play with their style and GS with their toughness.. Let some team in NY play with flair and their own formations... let us find our way and unique styles..
 
I don't have anything to add as far as what US Soccer should do to fix this, but after watching some spots across several sports news programs, I instantly became a huge fan of Taylor Twellman. That guy knocked it out of the park with his comments/rants.
 
JJP said:
Guys like Zidane, Wayne Rooney had already developed their skills playing pickup games, on streets, parking lots, basketball courts, before they entered academy. There are tons of kids playing futsal or street soccer after school for hours every day in Brazilian favelas, all over S. America and in European cities.

You would be amazed at the incredible talent you see in a pickup game in any major French city. European academies are not building kids from the ground up, they are selecting the cream from a pool of very talented, self developed players.
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You are talking about 25+ years ago. Pro clubs identify 10 year olds these days. It's a different world. I'm tired of the "Americans don't play street soccer" argument. It's bunk.
 
Grace T. said:
So now we're blaming the own goal on the keeper? That's also soooo American.

The 2nd goal goes back to the American aspects of his training. EPLs might have handled differently but then American and British keepers aren't taught to emphasize the strikes out of the box...the defensive coverage is supposed to shut that down. not Howard's fault...it's the way he was trained to play...that's a systems not Howard issue. He was where he'd be expected to be in American play and A block from that position would always be hard. Shot shouldn't have come from that place.
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I don't care about where Howard was trained. You're telling me he wasn't trained to expect shots outside the box? I'd imagine that is offensive to him. He mistimed his jump and reacted slowly and was out of position in the 2nd goal. I'm not placing the blame solely on him, just responding to your initial comment that it wasn't his fault at all.
 
JoeBieber said:
You are talking about 25+ years ago. Pro clubs identify 10 year olds these days. It's a different world. I'm tired of the "Americans don't play street soccer" argument. It's bunk.
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How many hours a day do they spend at academy? 2x a week for 1.5 hrs until 12, 3x a week for 1.5 hrs until 14 and then every day at 14. There's plenty of time for pickup play and they do.
 
JoeBieber said:
I don't care about where Howard was trained. You're telling me he wasn't trained to expect shots outside the box? I'd imagine that is offensive to him. He mistimed his jump and reacted slowly and was out of position in the 2nd goal. I'm not placing the blame solely on him, just responding to your initial comment that it wasn't his fault at all.
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Are you saying he was surprised by the shot and should have reacted sooner? Maybe...but again American keepers aren't expecting the opposition to be able to take a clear kick from way out there. His positioning was right where he should be given the position of the ball and the other players on the offensive. Note there are 2 other players forward...one at the top of the box and an uncovered winger that he has to position for as well...and if Trinidad weren't out taking so many chances the more conservative play would have been to pass to either of them. Fact remains that shot shouldn't have come.

Could it be that a European big keeper planted on his line with a bigger wingspan might have found that easier? Maybe. Could a fast keeper maybe have closed the angle a bit? Maybe. Might a younger keeper have had a bigger jump? Maybe. But that's all woulda coulda shoulda stuff. For how Howard was trained and what he's expected to do, not at fault.
 
Many have mentioned the team played like crap last night...and they did. But the truth is they looked mediocre at best during the entire qualifying round.

I kept watching games and kept thinking...wow...this team is in trouble.

Go back further to the Gold Cup. We tied Panama in one game and beat Martinique 3-2 in another. We should kill those teams. They looked shaky at the time and have since then.

We should have beaten the team last night under normal circumstances....but this team right now is not very good.

A disappointing year.
 
MakeAPlay said:
Kevin Silva is going to be our next great keeper. I will be surprised if he returns for his junior year at UCLA.
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Great keeper. Have only seen him play twice. But his style is a bit all over the place (no doubt because his coaching has been all over the place...he still plays it very much in the box from what little I've seen) and it's a shame he burned 2 playing collegiate. He's going to run into the problem that American keeping doesn't know what it wants to be right now, so might be better served trying to play in Europe for a few years than the American leagues.

Los Dos have high hopes for Vom Steeg, who IIRC has played in Germany and whose father was/is a soccer coach.
 
JoeBieber said:
I don't care about where Howard was trained. You're telling me he wasn't trained to expect shots outside the box? I'd imagine that is offensive to him. He mistimed his jump and reacted slowly and was out of position in the 2nd goal. I'm not placing the blame solely on him, just responding to your initial comment that it wasn't his fault at all.
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Her kid's a keeper, so she's oriented to defend them. Us vs them, my side vs. your side, etc. Just like society.
 
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