U17 Women's World Cup

[Soccerfan2]

Dos Equis you’ve articulated lots of great things. I don’t think I’d want my 14 year old in camp for 70 days though! I think advancing team play and the other concepts you’ve identified at the grassroots level is key. Club level education and accountability can both help to drive that.

 

[pulguita]

Agree with much of what you have to say here. Let me try to unite a few concepts (and make a suggestion).

A player is best able to beat their defenders not by taking them on 1v1, but with anticipation and their first touch. I do not mean standing around and being able to trap whatever ball comes your way, I mean taking a touch that is controlled, positive and creates space and options (and being an option yourself). That requires players with not only great foot skills, but who can anticipate where they can receive the ball with the best opportunity to either posses or attack (and preferably both), who can receive the ball at speed and make a controlled touch into a space they will be first to, who play with their head up so they see what is developing and adjust their decisions accordingly and, most importanly, it requires teammates who understand where they are likely to be, and how to pass it to that space (and not to where they were). Now perhaps some will argue that the best pure athletes can be taught all this. I respectfully disagree -- soccer IQ is both learned and innate, and you cannot relay on only one method to obtain it.

Regardless, team play requires more time together. The USYNT camp should run from June-August, 60-70 days every summer (starting at age 14), then additional 2-3 week sessions fall/winter and spring, and perhaps one weekend per month games (in addition to their club). Player pools should be 60 per combined age group, able to create A/B/C teams. Encourage clubs to pay for their invited players' travel, have US Soccer cover all camp costs and have some travel scholarships. Stop funding club leagues, spend that money on the youth national teams and on coach education at the youngest levels.

Oh -- and let the kids play high school soccer, because not only is it good marketing for US Soccer and what is possible, but it allows the kids, who will have a lot demanded of them, to still have a childhood. Even CIF makes exemptions for National Team duties. And playing HS will not lobotomize our best players, provided they have a soccer brain to begin with.

Dos agree with your first paragraph 100%. And here lies the problem as you stated with the college game and beyond. At college, not going to develop IQ without a serious investment of time and study. Most will never do it. They got there without it - why do I need it? Further, from what I have observed is that the highest IQ players are typically punished. Calculus students mixed with Algebra students and you punish the Calculus kids for being too smart cause its too much effort to get everyone else up to speed.
You see it every week in the collegiate game and in the NWSL. The same stupid mistakes over and over. Coaches think they can change at that level but they can't. They don't have the ability or they don't have the time.

As far as the camp all summer I think that would be a waste of time. No soccer powers have their National Teams in Camp for that long. Our problem is our clubs are not on the same page. That is where all the development is. I think the reason Brazil and Argentina have struggled so much in the current environment is because the best players go to Europe and are scattered about. The Euro teams have most of their player playing in the domestic leagues of their respective countries. Hence when Spain come together they all understand Spanish futbol, Germany comes together they play German, etc. Until the US has a style and fundamentally develops the players, develops a true soccer culture (pick up, futsal, watching the best professionally leagues fanatically) there will be no culture. If the come together in a US Camp it is essentially Babel. Further that much effort put into a 14 year old is counterproductive. Their is no guarantee that player will matriculate and further develop beyond 14.

Agree with your final paragraph 100%.

 

[Sheriff Joe]

Come of guys, it's just soccer and there are only a few lucky women on the National team.
From what I see and hear most colleges play kickball and that is a big part of their training.
I imagine almost all non-USA international players would give it up to be a citizen in the US.

 

[LASTMAN14]

Come of guys, it's just soccer and there are only a few lucky women on the National team.
From what I see and hear most colleges play kickball and that is a big part of their training.
I imagine almost all non-USA international players would give it up to be a citizen in the US.

Played kickball in elementary school with industrial strength red rec ball. I loved slow baby bouncies.

 

[MarkM]

Here I was worried about the lack of success of our various youth national teams, but apparently that is just part of the larger strategy for building the WNT. Only success at that level matters. Good thing we do not hold US Soccer to that standard for our MNT.

Our WNT is successful because the development and competition the players get in college more than offsets the damage US Soccer can do at the youth level. The same cannot be said for the boys/men’s side. But I appreciate there are still believers — just one more alteration to standards of play, or a few more league rules and mandates, and the promised land awaits.

Of course, they have now defined success as qualification for the World Cup. Given that is automatic for a host, I look forward to our future success in 2026.

Don't we win simply because of the numbers? https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/why-is-the-u-s-so-good-at-womens-soccer/

 

[San Diego]

So many interesting opinions here! And a debate that probably won't be settled anytime soon... A couple of points I'd like to add.

Regarding this idea of not getting "enough time together'. This group (including the coach) has spent four years together with a regular cadence of week-long camps and monthly 10-12 day camps leading up to the WC. US Soccer handed MC a blank check book which allowed him to invest a massive amount of time and money into this age group. So much time that a few girls had to self-select out of the program due to school and/or family commitments. They should be pretty comfortable/familiar with each other.

IMHO, I would categorize many of the players selected for this particular team as playing a more "selfish" style. Just watch them with their club teams... Many of them running around with the ball, taking on multiple players, looking to take over the game. Coaches allow it because this often times gives the team the best chance to win and parents encourage it because they believe it's the best ways to get noticed by college coaches and scouts. The inherent problem though is when you have too many players with this same mindset together on the field, they have very little understanding of how to play as a team. The importance of putting the team's success before their own. How to play off of each other. How to play selfless soccer. And it's hard to blame a kid when this is exactly what they've been encouraged to do their entire youth careers.

 

[LASTMAN14]

So many interesting opinions here! And a debate that probably won't be settled anytime soon... A couple of points I'd like to add.

Regarding this idea of not getting "enough time together'. This group (including the coach) has spent four years together with a regular cadence of week-long camps and monthly 10-12 day camps leading up to the WC. US Soccer handed MC a blank check book which allowed him to invest a massive amount of time and money into this age group. So much time that a few girls had to self-select out of the program due to school and/or family commitments. They should be pretty comfortable/familiar with each other.

IMHO, I would categorize many of the players selected for this particular team as playing a more "selfish" style. Just watch them with their club teams... Many of them running around with the ball, taking on multiple players, looking to take over the game. Coaches allow it because this often times gives the team the best chance to win and parents encourage it because they believe it's the best ways to get noticed by college coaches and scouts. The inherent problem though is when you have too many players with this same mindset together on the field, they have very little understanding of how to play as a team. The importance of putting the team's success before their own. How to play off of each other. How to play selfless soccer. And it's hard to blame a kid when this is exactly what they've been encouraged to do their entire youth careers.

This comes third hand to me but I was told a person within the US Soccer program spoke up about this group and stated their selections where not the right ones for the very reasons you mentioned.

 

[Justafan]

So many interesting opinions here! And a debate that probably won't be settled anytime soon... A couple of points I'd like to add.

Regarding this idea of not getting "enough time together'. This group (including the coach) has spent four years together with a regular cadence of week-long camps and monthly 10-12 day camps leading up to the WC.

We’ve been using this lame ass excuse ever since we started losing with our men’s national basketball team. Oh yeah I forgot that all the foreign players from other countries all play on the same club/professional team and spend hours after their regular practice to practice for the national team.

 

[Kicknit22]

Played kickball in elementary school with industrial strength red rec ball. I loved slow baby bouncies.

I wish I could give multiple rankings on this! I agree, Too funny! Winner!

 

[LASTMAN14]

I wish I could give multiple rankings on this! I agree, Too funny! Winner!

Our friends host an annual kickball tournament. Besides a red ball we have plenty of red cups.

 

[Kicknit22]

Our friends host an annual kickball tournament. Besides a red ball we have plenty of red cups.

Got to!

 

[MakeAPlay]

This comes third hand to me but I was told a person within the US Soccer program spoke up about this group and stated their selections where not the right ones for the very reasons you mentioned.

Too bad that person wasn't listened too...

 

[electrichead72]

IMHO, I would categorize many of the players selected for this particular team as playing a more "selfish" style. Just watch them with their club teams... Many of them running around with the ball, taking on multiple players, looking to take over the game. Coaches allow it because this often times gives the team the best chance to win and parents encourage it because they believe it's the best ways to get noticed by college coaches and scouts. The inherent problem though is when you have too many players with this same mindset together on the field, they have very little understanding of how to play as a team. The importance of putting the team's success before their own. How to play off of each other. How to play selfless soccer. And it's hard to blame a kid when this is exactly what they've been encouraged to do their entire youth careers.

What you're describing here is what I see a lot.

A kid thinks that they are Messi, trying to dribble through the entire defending team. The parents on the sidelines hooping and hollering about how they're a superstar and to go all the way, or to "Take a shot!!!" from about 40 yards out.

This usually leads to them losing the ball, overlooking some teammates that were in a better position, and essentially not helping the team, or hurting them depending on where on the field they lose the ball.

There is a balance that the player has to find and recognize. When to dribble, when to pass or when to shoot. Sounds obvious, but the timing on these activities is hard to tie down for a lot of these young players. I'm not sure if this is a training thing or a soccer intelligence thing, but I see it so often, and there doesn't seem to be anyone trying to correct it.

 

[Dos Equis]

I'm not sure if this is a training thing or a soccer intelligence thing, but I see it so often, and there doesn't seem to be anyone trying to correct it.

You cannot build soccer IQ from zero, but neither does IQ arrive fully formed -- it needs training, experience and competition, taking chances and learning from mistakes.

What puzzles is the inability for US Soccer to identify this IQ, and target development of these players. Nor understand that several of their rules and policies actually discourage the development of soccer IQ (including substitution rules, outside competition prohibitions, etc.)

 

[espola]

You cannot build soccer IQ from zero, but neither does IQ arrive fully formed -- it needs training, experience and competition, taking chances and learning from mistakes.

What puzzles is the inability for US Soccer to identify this IQ, and target development of these players. Nor understand that several of their rules and policies actually discourage the development of soccer IQ (including substitution rules, outside competition prohibitions, etc.)

If this website had not been scrubbed at least twice by technical errors, you could read my opinions about DA from its founding in 2007-8. In summary, if the DA objective was to produce world-class competitive players in 10 years (does anyone else remember that promise?) they should have started with 10- to 12-year-olds. Instead, they just renamed their best older boys teams and increased the fees.

 

[El Clasico]

You cannot build soccer IQ from zero, but neither does IQ arrive fully formed -- it needs training, experience and competition, taking chances and learning from mistakes.

What puzzles is the inability for US Soccer to identify this IQ, and target development of these players. Nor understand that several of their rules and policies actually discourage the development of soccer IQ (including substitution rules, outside competition prohibitions, etc.)

This a hundred times!! Biggest single factor in my mind is the amount of money in American Soccer. Because every decision is made with $$ being a factor, the powers that be will always pick their own interest over anything else. I have yet to hear ONE good reason for prohibiting outside competitions. This is a tremendous source of soccer IQ development. Why the need for so much control of the players?

 

[MarkM]

You cannot build soccer IQ from zero, but neither does IQ arrive fully formed -- it needs training, experience and competition, taking chances and learning from mistakes.

What puzzles is the inability for US Soccer to identify this IQ, and target development of these players. Nor understand that several of their rules and policies actually discourage the development of soccer IQ (including substitution rules, outside competition prohibitions, etc.)

I would agree with most of this except the reference to the substitution rules. Liberal substitution rules can result in kids getting yanked when they make mistakes. And putting in a kid to press for 25 minute stretches before they tucker out doesn't build soccer IQ either. Playing good, strategic defense for 45 minutes takes a much higher IQ than 25 or even 35 minutes.

 

[End of the Line]

I would agree with most of this except the reference to the substitution rules. Liberal substitution rules can result in kids getting yanked when they make mistakes. And putting in a kid to press for 25 minute stretches before they tucker out doesn't build soccer IQ either. Playing good, strategic defense for 45 minutes takes a much higher IQ than 25 or even 35 minutes.

Rules that limit a good coach's ability to make good decisions because you're worried that bad coaches will make bad decisions is a very poor reason to make a rule at the elite soccer level. Bad soccer coaches can make a lot of very bad substitution decisions with limited substitutions too. They can work kids too hard when she otherwise could have gotten a break, increasing the risk of injury. They can leave an injured kid in a game hoping the injury isn't serious when subbing them out and actually evaluating them is always the better solution. The coach might play down a player while their best player spends 10 minutes going through concussion protocol, which leaves all 10 kids having to press harder to make up for being short a player, rather than the one kid in your example.

Where's your medical study proving that forcing 6 kids a game to play 90 minutes is safer than allowing a break and reentry? Or do you not care about the safety of the players because you're more worried about good, strategic defense in that game?

 

[Kicker4Life]

Rules that limit a good coach's ability to make good decisions because you're worried that bad coaches will make bad decisions is a very poor reason to make a rule at the elite soccer level. Bad soccer coaches can make a lot of very bad substitution decisions with limited substitutions too. They can work kids too hard when she otherwise could have gotten a break, increasing the risk of injury. They can leave an injured kid in a game hoping the injury isn't serious when subbing them out and actually evaluating them is always the better solution. The coach might play down a player while their best player spends 10 minutes going through concussion protocol, which leaves all 10 kids having to press harder to make up for being short a player, rather than the one kid in your example.

Where's your medical study proving that forcing 6 kids a game to play 90 minutes is safer than allowing a break and reentry? Or do you not care about the safety of the players because you're more worried about good, strategic defense in that game?

Ok, ok....I give....I’ll be the one to ask just 2 questions (maybe you’ll actually answer one)

1) You’ve spend countless posts regurgitating the same arguement. You obviously have a position. So what is your recommendation for a young, elite female soccer player. What would you suggest/recommend this player do when deciding where to play next season and why?

2) Can you show me on a doll where The DA hurt you?

 

[espola]

Ok, ok....I give....I’ll be the one to ask just 2 questions (maybe you’ll actually answer one)

1) You’ve spend countless posts regurgitating the same arguement. You obviously have a position. So what is your recommendation for a young, elite female soccer player. What would you suggest/recommend this player do when deciding where to play next season and why?

2) Can you show me on a doll where The DA hurt you?

It's up around the head. USSFDA is trying to mindfuck us.

 

[MarkM]

Rules that limit a good coach's ability to make good decisions because you're worried that bad coaches will make bad decisions is a very poor reason to make a rule at the elite soccer level. Bad soccer coaches can make a lot of very bad substitution decisions with limited substitutions too. They can work kids too hard when she otherwise could have gotten a break, increasing the risk of injury. They can leave an injured kid in a game hoping the injury isn't serious when subbing them out and actually evaluating them is always the better solution. The coach might play down a player while their best player spends 10 minutes going through concussion protocol, which leaves all 10 kids having to press harder to make up for being short a player, rather than the one kid in your example.

Where's your medical study proving that forcing 6 kids a game to play 90 minutes is safer than allowing a break and reentry? Or do you not care about the safety of the players because you're more worried about good, strategic defense in that game?

You are a hoot. You are right, of course. The downside of playing more is an increase risk of injury. You should probably encourage kids not to play at all if you are really concerned about injury. But you're not; just a fraud that's way too concerned about weather at events you don't attend. Self-righteously shame parents about letting their kids play 80 or 90 minutes; to do so, you make up some arbitrary line about how many minutes are too much. Pathetic.

Getting back to soccer IQ; my point stands uncontested - although I would like to read Dos Equis' take since my beer-drinking friend seems to know a lot more soccer than I do.