Turning Pro at 13

[MacDre]

For females, the interpersonal aspect of soccer and the social relationships are very significant parts of the team. Grown women have conversations about sex, drugs and alcohol, getting married, having children, financial pressures, buying a house, making big life decisions etc. that is something a 13 year old is usually not talking about and doesn’t have any experiences to contribute or participate in the conversation. So someone in that situation is just listening and not really getting all of it, or is being exposed to mature adult issues that she shouldn’t be or is just isolated from all of it and not in a position to developer the relationships with other teammates in a normal way. Being 13 hanging out with adult women is different than being 16 or 17 hanging out with adult women.

Also, everyone is assuming that because this move has been made that she is of course that good. As has been said on this thread, time will tell how this plays out. If one is an impact player that will be seen in every environment where that player plays. Not sure that is being demonstrated here. There are many elite players in GDA and ECNL that are amazingly talented- the difference is the media campaign and the skillful marketing of parents to make a splashy presence. Also, as I have said before- the end goal for females is significantly lower than for males- Having an education and other career goals has a higher payout down the road than in women’s professional soccer.

Given the large numbers of foreign national players finding their way onto top NCAA rosters over the past decade, either the "world" disagrees with your conclusion, or these players realize the best use of their soccer abilities is to secure a top education in order to expand their future opportunities in soccer and beyond.

I used to think NCAA Women's soccer pretty awful as well, mostly from watching segments of games on TV, and perhaps my own bias. Then my children's interests resulted in me attending more games live, watching some training, getting to know their programming, and watching full games on TV. Frankly, I see less creative soccer these days watching MLS teams. And I will be generous and say NWSL needs our support, but the style and pace of play is less impressive than top NCAA games I have seen -- it feels like the games do not matter to the players.

The college season needs to change, even the coaches agree. But until there is a credible better option, you are tearing down the best level of women's soccer (outside of full national team play in major tournaments, not crappy one-sided friendlies) without providing a better alternative.

Thanks for your insight. I think a reasonable solution would be to spread the season out over both semesters.

 

[MakeAPlay]

Thanks for your insight. I think a reasonable solution would be to spread the season out over both semesters.

You have to remember that they are students first. My daughter and her boyfriend are both soccer players and they take heavy course loads in the winter and spring. Imagine if the basketball or football season were spread over multiple terms (some schools are in n semesters some are in quarters).

 

[MakeAPlay]

Who said I don't agree with some social justice issues? I know we have issues to deal with and I believe our country is making progress, it is the lies and race baiting that I have issues with.

It’s easy to call it race baiting when you are a white male in America. Please spend some time in a brown country or even a brown neighborhood then we can talk about it. Otherwise you are just another clueless, white boy opening his mouth about shit he has no idea about.

I could debate this or the merits of zone blitzing in the red zone with you but if you have no idea about either it makes for a pointless debate.

Good luck to you and your player.

 

[MacDre]

So you said two different things so let me address them both. First, Florida State is an excellent soccer school and plays a better possession game than any NWSL team. My beef with them has everything to do with the massive turnover which is directly related to the coach wanting athletes who are students and not student athletes. From what I hear though he is pretty honest with his players about where they fit in and he helps them move on if that is their wish. I have no problem with him it just isn’t what I would want for MY daughter. My kid isn’t normal though and wants to change the actual world not necessarily the soccer world. And just in case you were wondering one of my daughters good friends who is an ex teammate was a scholarship athlete there and started several games there as a freshman and left after her freshman year.

Regarding college soccer I agree that the length of the season isn’t ideal but you have to remember that we are talking about students not professionals. If you do a little more digging and talk to more parents of players at the top schools you will find that outside of North Carolina the top teams play about 15-18 players at most and the subbing isn’t Willy nilly. I can tell you that my player plays 90+ minutes a game unless she is hurt or it is a blowout so I don’t know why you think the subbing rules really matter for the top players because they aren’t coming out anyway. And her team (and Stanford, Penn State and Florida State) crush teams in the second half of games as they wear down. Also, as I am sure that you know, the main point of possession isn’t wearing a team down it is stretching and affecting their defensive shape so that the attacking team can take advantage of the overloads and mismatches.

I can only think of two Americans that are world class and didn’t play college soccer. Now you may not be an American but if you are then your daughter going overseas out of high school to play is always your prerogative. My daughter had a teammate that chose that path and she has pretty much disappeared off all radars. Playing in Europe for some bottom team in those leagues who s worse than playing for a top college. My daughter’s roommate had offers to play overseas for decent money but she chose to pursue playing in college (against the wishes of her national team coach) and she has only continued to get better. I would even argue that Pugh’s development has been hampered by not playing college. When she was playing with my daughter she wasn’t the best player on the pitch by any stretch of the imagination. She did have two really significant fan though (Jill and BJ).

The bottom line is you have to do what you feel is best for your kids situation. However you are fooling yourself if you think that professional women’s soccer is on average any different than college women’s soccer. The Lyon’s, Chelsea’s, PSG’s, Bayern’s and Barcelona’s aside because unless your player is already world class already those aren’t options. The vast majority of players play for the obscure teams in Scandinavia or other leagues than play on those teams.

Good luck to you and your player.

Wow! Thanks for your insight and nuanced analysis. Please let your daughter know when she starts law school I’ll be looking for her application to the Trial Lawyers College (TLC).

 

[Sheriff Joe]

It’s easy to call it race baiting when you are a white male in America. Please spend some time in a brown country or even a brown neighborhood then we can talk about it. Otherwise you are just another clueless, white boy opening his mouth about shit he has no idea about.

I could debate this or the merits of zone blitzing in the red zone with you but if you have no idea about either it makes for a pointless debate.

Good luck to you and your player.

You may have a point there.
Please leave my little dick alone, he already has self-esteem issues.

 

[MacDre]

You have to remember that they are students first. My daughter and her boyfriend are both soccer players and they take heavy course loads in the winter and spring. Imagine if the basketball or football season were spread over multiple terms (some schools are in n semesters some are in quarters).

I’m actually kinda on the fence on this issue. I went through the UC system for undergrad and law school with plans of changing the world. I made a lot of money but I was miserable. My goal for my kid is to be happy.

 

[MacDre]

Who said I don't agree with some social justice issues? I know we have issues to deal with and I believe our country is making progress, it is the lies and race baiting that I have issues with.

What lies? What race baiting?

 

[MacDre]

You may have a point there.
Please leave my little dick alone, he already has self-esteem issues.

I think he’s more of an Archie Bunker than a Sheriff Joe.

 

[Sheriff Joe]

What lies? What race baiting?

I think this is how the movement really got going.

"Hands up, don't shoot", or simply "hands up", is a slogan and gesture that originated after the August 9, 2014 shooting of Michael Brown. The slogan was adopted at protests against police violence. Witness reports differed as to what Brown was doing with his hands when he was shot to death, with one claiming he had his hands in the air. That witness subsequently recanted his account. A United States Department of Justice investigation, under the leadership of U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder, found this claim inconsistent with the physical and forensic evidence and witness testimony.[1]

 

[beachbum]

So, the best players are all about social justice?
Why does the USWNT have everyone stand for the National Anthem?
Why isn't kapernick playing in the NFL?

Most Americans don't agree with their issues.

I believe MAP was just trying to say, the girls are not just about soccer but have many interests and have well rounded lives outside of soccer. You chose to key on a couple of words, so this one is on you. If you want to have a discussion about social issues involved with sports make a new thread.

 

[MacDre]

Are you scared for your life when you see the cops? I am.
Has anyone in your family been castrated and lynched for dating a white girl (1992)? My cousin did.
Have you ever experienced busing to integrate schools? I have.
Has your school bus ever been turned around because skinheads’ were protesting blacks at your high school (1992 Port St. Lucie, FL)? Mine has.
Have you ever attempted to go downtown with your grandma but couldn’t because the Klan was marching (Greensboro NC/Danville VA late 80’s early 90’s). I have.
Have you had the cops called on you for going into your house because you look like you don’t belong. I have and professor Skip Gates at Harvard.
Did you get called boy so much as a kid, that you thought boy was your nickname. I did.

You gotta do better sheriff. Any by the way, most African-Americans are biracial to varying degrees. It’s just the “one drop rule” is still in full effect and we are not accepted. Have you ever wondered why Obama was not considered a white man? After all, he was raised by his white mother and grandma. I would argue he is more culturally white than black because of his upbringing. However he was “tainted” with African blood so, he can never be a part of your club.
It must be great to stick your head in the sand and reap the benefits of white male privilege.
My hope for you is that your daughter falls in love with an African American man and that you have African American grandkids. I bet you’d get it then.

 

[outside!]

I knew there was a reason I had Sheriff on ignore.

 

[Sheriff Joe]

Are you scared for your life when you see the cops? I am.
Has anyone in your family been castrated and lynched for dating a white girl (1992)? My cousin did.
Have you ever experienced busing to integrate schools? I have.
Has your school bus ever been turned around because skinheads’ were protesting blacks at your high school (1992 Port St. Lucie, FL)? Mine has.
Have you ever attempted to go downtown with your grandma but couldn’t because the Klan was marching (Greensboro NC/Danville VA late 80’s early 90’s). I have.
Have you had the cops called on you for going into your house because you look like you don’t belong. I have and professor Skip Gates at Harvard.
Did you get called boy so much as a kid, that you thought boy was your nickname. I did.

You gotta do better sheriff. Any by the way, most African-Americans are biracial to varying degrees. It’s just the “one drop rule” is still in full effect and we are not accepted. Have you ever wondered why Obama was not considered a white man? After all, he was raised by his white mother and grandma. I would argue he is more culturally white than black because of his upbringing. However he was “tainted” with African blood so, he can never be a part of your club.
It must be great to stick your head in the sand and reap the benefits of white male privilege.
My hope for you is that your daughter falls in love with an African American man and that you have African American grandkids. I bet you’d get it then.

I am not here to put down or diminish anyone's struggle, but I think there is a right way to go about it and making up stories is not the way.
Like MAP said white boys can't identify and I am ok with that, but I can still have an opinion.

 

[Sheriff Joe]

I knew there was a reason I had Sheriff on ignore.

Stay in your safe space.

 

[MacDre]

I am not here to put down or diminish anyone's struggle, but I think there is a right way to go about it and making up stories is not the way.
Like MAP said white boys can't identify and I am ok with that, but I can still have an opinion.

White boys can identify if they want. People like you choose ignorance because it’s to your benefit. I’m asking you to acknowledge the problem and be a patriot and fight for equality and turn our great nation into a meritocracy.
I think you and others are upset about the “kneeling” because it forces you and others to see what you don’t want to see.
Oh yeah, since you don’t agree with kneeling, I’m all ears if you have a better solution. I’m a veteran and I feel proud every time I see a young athlete kneel because it gives me hope that more privileged white males like you will understand and take action so that my kids and grandchildren aren’t subjected to the same bigotry that I was.
So, if you don’t like the kneeling, get off your ass and fight for equality and miss me with that lame ass game about what a white boy can’t understand.

 

[Sheriff Joe]

White boys can identify if they want. People like you choose ignorance because it’s to your benefit. I’m asking you to acknowledge the problem and be a patriot and fight for equality and turn our great nation into a meritocracy.
I think you and others are upset about the “kneeling” because it forces you and others to see what you don’t want to see.
Oh yeah, since you don’t agree with kneeling, I’m all ears if you have a better solution. I’m a veteran and I feel proud every time I see a young athlete kneel because it gives me hope that more privileged white males like you will understand and take action so that my kids and grandchildren aren’t subjected to the same bigotry that I was.
So, if you don’t like the kneeling, get off your ass and fight for equality and miss me with that lame ass game about what a white boy can’t understand.

I hate to tell you, but most of America agrees with me on the kneeling.
Do you think our country isn't making progress on the racial divide?
What is your opinion on the smolette ordeal?

 

[MacDre]

I hate to tell you, but most of America agrees with me on the kneeling.
Do you think our country isn't making progress on the racial divide?
What is your opinion on the smolette ordeal?

I hate to tell you most of America used to consider African Americans 3/5 of a person. I hate to tell you most of America agreed with the implementation of the “black codes” after the abolition of slavery. I hate to tell you most of America supported segregation etc. etc. So, why are we talking about what the majority thinks when we are talking about the complaints of a disenfranchised minority group?
I’m not talking about a racial divide because there is only one race and that is the human race. However, I’m talking about equality for all.
I haven’t followed the Smolette ordeal but from the little that I’ve heard, I think he’s an idiot.

 

[Sheriff Joe]

I hate to tell you most of America used to consider African Americans 3/5 of a person. I hate to tell you most of America agreed with the implementation of the “black codes” after the abolition of slavery. I hate to tell you most of America supported segregation etc. etc. So, why are we talking about what the majority thinks when we are talking about the complaints of a disenfranchised minority group?
I’m not talking about a racial divide because there is only one race and that is the human race. However, I’m talking about equality for all.
I haven’t followed the Smolette ordeal but from the little that I’ve heard, I think he’s an idiot.

Cool, so it looks we agree on quite a few issues, our country has issues but has made important progress on race.

 

[full90]

Back to OM. I played at a decently high level (Pac-12) and had some chances to go overseas after but was ready to hang it up. So my perspective is limited to that scope. As a sports fan and person who is interested in the process, I’m fascinated by her journey and how this will play out.
She’s certainly extremely talented and motivated.
All that to say: I’m glad it’s not my kid.

I think if you have a kid at that level you have to let them shoot their shot. But it doesn’t seem like going pro gives her More than climbing the normal ladder. She could’ve stayed at beach, had friends who were peers and played up for national team and for DA. Is practices with thorns that helpful? Meh? Maybe. Could she have found an equally challenging environment in so cal. Um yep. Go train with Galaxy boys DA. Or LAFC. Is the pressure and limelight of being a pro worth the cost? Doesn’t seem like she’s getting much out of it other than being a unicorn. (I did read in an article she wrote to her younger self that she doesn’t eat junk food or ever sit on the couch and chill. She otherwise seems like a great kid. But that’s crazy. Parents where are you? I’m into health and fitness and all that but that’s nuts. It’s a long way to 20 living like that. And for what? An ice cream run and a Sunday afternoon binging marvel movies won’t derail your career. If they aren’t teaching her that I think that’s insane).

Who knows. It’s a roll of the dice. And I’m glad it’s not my daughter.

 

[MakeAPlay]

I hate to tell you most of America used to consider African Americans 3/5 of a person. I hate to tell you most of America agreed with the implementation of the “black codes” after the abolition of slavery. I hate to tell you most of America supported segregation etc. etc. So, why are we talking about what the majority thinks when we are talking about the complaints of a disenfranchised minority group?
I’m not talking about a racial divide because there is only one race and that is the human race. However, I’m talking about equality for all.
I haven’t followed the Smolette ordeal but from the little that I’ve heard, I think he’s an idiot.

@MacDre I am following you now. Keep on educating the dull, preaching the sermon and fighting the fight!

Continued good fortune to you and your family!

 

[MakeAPlay]

Back to OM. I played at a decently high level (Pac-12) and had some chances to go overseas after but was ready to hang it up. So my perspective is limited to that scope. As a sports fan and person who is interested in the process, I’m fascinated by her journey and how this will play out.
She’s certainly extremely talented and motivated.
All that to say: I’m glad it’s not my kid.

I think if you have a kid at that level you have to let them shoot their shot. But it doesn’t seem like going pro gives her More than climbing the normal ladder. She could’ve stayed at beach, had friends who were peers and played up for national team and for DA. Is practices with thorns that helpful? Meh? Maybe. Could she have found an equally challenging environment in so cal. Um yep. Go train with Galaxy boys DA. Or LAFC. Is the pressure and limelight of being a pro worth the cost? Doesn’t seem like she’s getting much out of it other than being a unicorn. (I did read in an article she wrote to her younger self that she doesn’t eat junk food or ever sit on the couch and chill. She otherwise seems like a great kid. But that’s crazy. Parents where are you? I’m into health and fitness and all that but that’s nuts. It’s a long way to 20 living like that. And for what? An ice cream run and a Sunday afternoon binging marvel movies won’t derail your career. If they aren’t teaching her that I think that’s insane).

Who knows. It’s a roll of the dice. And I’m glad it’s not my daughter.

You just gave me a Todd Marinovich flashback... God I hope that she doesn’t end up like he did....