Turning Pro at 13

[Sheriff Joe]

I disagree. They talk less about soccer than you think. I know a player who has been on her full national team since she was 15 and she is more interested in her engineering degree than anything. Her engineer father though will talk soccer with me all day. The best players have amazingly balanced lives. They go to concerts, care about social justice and grind it out in school. I believe only three members of our current WNT don’t have college degrees and most have them from extremely prestigious universities.

So, the best players are all about social justice?
Why does the USWNT have everyone stand for the National Anthem?
Why isn't kapernick playing in the NFL?

Most Americans don't agree with their issues.

 

[MakeAPlay]

So, the best players are all about social justice?
Why does the USWNT have everyone stand for the National Anthem?
Why isn't kapernick playing in the NFL?

Most Americans don't agree with their issues.

You are a fool and I won’t turn this into a debate about your idiocy. Small minds and small dicks can stay small. How’s your player doing?

 

[MacDre]

Have you seen Stanford, UCLA, Penn State or Florida State play?

I have. My daughter was the youngest kid at the April 19 FSU ID camp (I would love to hear more about your dislike for FSU) I think all of the above mentioned teams attempt to play good possession based soccer.
However, I still think college soccer sucks and is not ideal for development because of the format. First, the season is too short with too many games. Second, even if the above teams are trying to play possession based soccer they can still freely sub in players to avoid fatigue. Third, I think one of the advantages of possession based soccer is the ability to wear out your opponent by “letting the ball do the work.” Once your opponent is tired, you attack and beat that ass. However, with college soccer being dominated by coaches like Anson Dorrance it prevents the above teams from wearing out their opponents and playing true possession soccer.
So, I see the college game as having little to no benefit to someone aspiring to be world class.

 

[Dos Equis]

So, the best players are all about social justice?
Why does the USWNT have everyone stand for the National Anthem?
Why isn't kapernick playing in the NFL?

Most Americans don't agree with their issues.

Given that the entire WNT has signed on to the lawsuit against US Soccer, I would say the evidence of their interest in social justice is firmly in MAP's corner. I would also estimate they do not agree on every issue, hence why they likely have conversations.

You need to let that one go -- most Americans have moved beyond it, including the orange man.

 

[MacDre]

So, the best players are all about social justice?
Why does the USWNT have everyone stand for the National Anthem?
Why isn't kapernick playing in the NFL?

Most Americans don't agree with their issues.

Ignorant!

 

[Dos Equis]

So, I see the college game as having little to no benefit to someone aspiring to be world class.

Given the large numbers of foreign national players finding their way onto top NCAA rosters over the past decade, either the "world" disagrees with your conclusion, or these players realize the best use of their soccer abilities is to secure a top education in order to expand their future opportunities in soccer and beyond.

I used to think NCAA Women's soccer pretty awful as well, mostly from watching segments of games on TV, and perhaps my own bias. Then my children's interests resulted in me attending more games live, watching some training, getting to know their programming, and watching full games on TV. Frankly, I see less creative soccer these days watching MLS teams. And I will be generous and say NWSL needs our support, but the style and pace of play is less impressive than top NCAA games I have seen -- it feels like the games do not matter to the players.

The college season needs to change, even the coaches agree. But until there is a credible better option, you are tearing down the best level of women's soccer (outside of full national team play in major tournaments, not crappy one-sided friendlies) without providing a better alternative.

 

[Sheriff Joe]

You are a fool and I won’t turn this into a debate about your idiocy. Small minds and small dicks can stay small. How’s your player doing?

My player is great thank you, how about yours?

 

[Sheriff Joe]

Given that the entire WNT has signed on to the lawsuit against US Soccer, I would say the evidence of their interest in social justice is firmly in MAP's corner. I would also estimate they do not agree on every issue, hence why they likely have conversations.

You need to let that one go -- most Americans have moved beyond it, including the orange man.

MAP brought it up for some reason, maybe he needs to let it go.

 

[Sheriff Joe]

Ignorant!

That is a well thought out argument.

 

[MakeAPlay]

I have. My daughter was the youngest kid at the April 19 FSU ID camp (I would love to hear more about your dislike for FSU) I think all of the above mentioned teams attempt to play good possession based soccer.
However, I still think college soccer sucks and is not ideal for development because of the format. First, the season is too short with too many games. Second, even if the above teams are trying to play possession based soccer they can still freely sub in players to avoid fatigue. Third, I think one of the advantages of possession based soccer is the ability to wear out your opponent by “letting the ball do the work.” Once your opponent is tired, you attack and beat that ass. However, with college soccer being dominated by coaches like Anson Dorrance it prevents the above teams from wearing out their opponents and playing true possession soccer.
So, I see the college game as having little to no benefit to someone aspiring to be world class.

So you said two different things so let me address them both. First, Florida State is an excellent soccer school and plays a better possession game than any NWSL team. My beef with them has everything to do with the massive turnover which is directly related to the coach wanting athletes who are students and not student athletes. From what I hear though he is pretty honest with his players about where they fit in and he helps them move on if that is their wish. I have no problem with him it just isn’t what I would want for MY daughter. My kid isn’t normal though and wants to change the actual world not necessarily the soccer world. And just in case you were wondering one of my daughters good friends who is an ex teammate was a scholarship athlete there and started several games there as a freshman and left after her freshman year.

Regarding college soccer I agree that the length of the season isn’t ideal but you have to remember that we are talking about students not professionals. If you do a little more digging and talk to more parents of players at the top schools you will find that outside of North Carolina the top teams play about 15-18 players at most and the subbing isn’t Willy nilly. I can tell you that my player plays 90+ minutes a game unless she is hurt or it is a blowout so I don’t know why you think the subbing rules really matter for the top players because they aren’t coming out anyway. And her team (and Stanford, Penn State and Florida State) crush teams in the second half of games as they wear down. Also, as I am sure that you know, the main point of possession isn’t wearing a team down it is stretching and affecting their defensive shape so that the attacking team can take advantage of the overloads and mismatches.

I can only think of two Americans that are world class and didn’t play college soccer. Now you may not be an American but if you are then your daughter going overseas out of high school to play is always your prerogative. My daughter had a teammate that chose that path and she has pretty much disappeared off all radars. Playing in Europe for some bottom team in those leagues who s worse than playing for a top college. My daughter’s roommate had offers to play overseas for decent money but she chose to pursue playing in college (against the wishes of her national team coach) and she has only continued to get better. I would even argue that Pugh’s development has been hampered by not playing college. When she was playing with my daughter she wasn’t the best player on the pitch by any stretch of the imagination. She did have two really significant fan though (Jill and BJ).

The bottom line is you have to do what you feel is best for your kids situation. However you are fooling yourself if you think that professional women’s soccer is on average any different than college women’s soccer. The Lyon’s, Chelsea’s, PSG’s, Bayern’s and Barcelona’s aside because unless your player is already world class already those aren’t options. The vast majority of players play for the obscure teams in Scandinavia or other leagues than play on those teams.

Good luck to you and your player.

 

[MakeAPlay]

My player is great thank you, how about yours?

Great to hear! She is fortunate to have people that love and support her unconditionally. My player is happy, healthy and excited to graduate and excited to start her internship. Thank you for asking.

 

[MakeAPlay]

MAP brought it up for some reason, maybe he needs to let it go.

That two words is what you seized upon out of the many that I wrote? You are the one that needs to let it go. What human being is against social justice and what sane and non-racist thinks that our society is equal? My mother had the national guard escort her to school when she was moved to one of the “newly” integrated schools in Georgia in the 60’s something that would never have happened had the fight for social justice not begun. Everything that we have was built upon the backs of a thirst for social justice (think American Revolution, US Constitution).

You are either a racist or a fool. Which is it?

Good luck to you and your player.

 

[Sheriff Joe]

That two words is what you seized upon out of the many that I wrote? You are the one that needs to let it go. What human being is against social justice and what sane and non-racist thinks that our society is equal? My mother had the national guard escort her to school when she was moved to one of the “newly” integrated schools in Georgia in the 60’s something that would never have happened had the fight for social justice not begun. Everything that we have was built upon the backs of a thirst for social justice (think American Revolution, US Constitution).

You are either a racist or a fool. Which is it?

Good luck to you and your player.

Who said I don't agree with some social justice issues? I know we have issues to deal with and I believe our country is making progress, it is the lies and race baiting that I have issues with.

 

[MacDre]

For females, the interpersonal aspect of soccer and the social relationships are very significant parts of the team. Grown women have conversations about sex, drugs and alcohol, getting married, having children, financial pressures, buying a house, making big life decisions etc. that is something a 13 year old is usually not talking about and doesn’t have any experiences to contribute or participate in the conversation. So someone in that situation is just listening and not really getting all of it, or is being exposed to mature adult issues that she shouldn’t be or is just isolated from all of it and not in a position to developer the relationships with other teammates in a normal way. Being 13 hanging out with adult women is different than being 16 or 17 hanging out with adult women.

Also, everyone is assuming that because this move has been made that she is of course that good. As has been said on this thread, time will tell how this plays out. If one is an impact player that will be seen in every environment where that player plays. Not sure that is being demonstrated here. There are many elite players in GDA and ECNL that are amazingly talented- the difference is the media campaign and the skillful marketing of parents to make a splashy presence. Also, as I have said before- the end goal for females is significantly lower than for males- Having an education and other career goals has a higher payout down the road than in women’s professional soccer.

Given the large numbers of foreign national players finding their way onto top NCAA rosters over the past decade, either the "world" disagrees with your conclusion, or these players realize the best use of their soccer abilities is to secure a top education in order to expand their future opportunities in soccer and beyond.

I used to think NCAA Women's soccer pretty awful as well, mostly from watching segments of games on TV, and perhaps my own bias. Then my children's interests resulted in me attending more games live, watching some training, getting to know their programming, and watching full games on TV. Frankly, I see less creative soccer these days watching MLS teams. And I will be generous and say NWSL needs our support, but the style and pace of play is less impressive than top NCAA games I have seen -- it feels like the games do not matter to the players.

The college season needs to change, even the coaches agree. But until there is a credible better option, you are tearing down the best level of women's soccer (outside of full national team play in major tournaments, not crappy one-sided friendlies) without providing a better alternative.

Thanks for your insight. I think a reasonable solution would be to spread the season out over both semesters.

 

[MakeAPlay]

Thanks for your insight. I think a reasonable solution would be to spread the season out over both semesters.

You have to remember that they are students first. My daughter and her boyfriend are both soccer players and they take heavy course loads in the winter and spring. Imagine if the basketball or football season were spread over multiple terms (some schools are in n semesters some are in quarters).

 

[MakeAPlay]

Who said I don't agree with some social justice issues? I know we have issues to deal with and I believe our country is making progress, it is the lies and race baiting that I have issues with.

It’s easy to call it race baiting when you are a white male in America. Please spend some time in a brown country or even a brown neighborhood then we can talk about it. Otherwise you are just another clueless, white boy opening his mouth about shit he has no idea about.

I could debate this or the merits of zone blitzing in the red zone with you but if you have no idea about either it makes for a pointless debate.

Good luck to you and your player.

 

[MacDre]

So you said two different things so let me address them both. First, Florida State is an excellent soccer school and plays a better possession game than any NWSL team. My beef with them has everything to do with the massive turnover which is directly related to the coach wanting athletes who are students and not student athletes. From what I hear though he is pretty honest with his players about where they fit in and he helps them move on if that is their wish. I have no problem with him it just isn’t what I would want for MY daughter. My kid isn’t normal though and wants to change the actual world not necessarily the soccer world. And just in case you were wondering one of my daughters good friends who is an ex teammate was a scholarship athlete there and started several games there as a freshman and left after her freshman year.

Regarding college soccer I agree that the length of the season isn’t ideal but you have to remember that we are talking about students not professionals. If you do a little more digging and talk to more parents of players at the top schools you will find that outside of North Carolina the top teams play about 15-18 players at most and the subbing isn’t Willy nilly. I can tell you that my player plays 90+ minutes a game unless she is hurt or it is a blowout so I don’t know why you think the subbing rules really matter for the top players because they aren’t coming out anyway. And her team (and Stanford, Penn State and Florida State) crush teams in the second half of games as they wear down. Also, as I am sure that you know, the main point of possession isn’t wearing a team down it is stretching and affecting their defensive shape so that the attacking team can take advantage of the overloads and mismatches.

I can only think of two Americans that are world class and didn’t play college soccer. Now you may not be an American but if you are then your daughter going overseas out of high school to play is always your prerogative. My daughter had a teammate that chose that path and she has pretty much disappeared off all radars. Playing in Europe for some bottom team in those leagues who s worse than playing for a top college. My daughter’s roommate had offers to play overseas for decent money but she chose to pursue playing in college (against the wishes of her national team coach) and she has only continued to get better. I would even argue that Pugh’s development has been hampered by not playing college. When she was playing with my daughter she wasn’t the best player on the pitch by any stretch of the imagination. She did have two really significant fan though (Jill and BJ).

The bottom line is you have to do what you feel is best for your kids situation. However you are fooling yourself if you think that professional women’s soccer is on average any different than college women’s soccer. The Lyon’s, Chelsea’s, PSG’s, Bayern’s and Barcelona’s aside because unless your player is already world class already those aren’t options. The vast majority of players play for the obscure teams in Scandinavia or other leagues than play on those teams.

Good luck to you and your player.

Wow! Thanks for your insight and nuanced analysis. Please let your daughter know when she starts law school I’ll be looking for her application to the Trial Lawyers College (TLC).

 

[Sheriff Joe]

It’s easy to call it race baiting when you are a white male in America. Please spend some time in a brown country or even a brown neighborhood then we can talk about it. Otherwise you are just another clueless, white boy opening his mouth about shit he has no idea about.

I could debate this or the merits of zone blitzing in the red zone with you but if you have no idea about either it makes for a pointless debate.

Good luck to you and your player.

You may have a point there.
Please leave my little dick alone, he already has self-esteem issues.

 

[MacDre]

You have to remember that they are students first. My daughter and her boyfriend are both soccer players and they take heavy course loads in the winter and spring. Imagine if the basketball or football season were spread over multiple terms (some schools are in n semesters some are in quarters).

I’m actually kinda on the fence on this issue. I went through the UC system for undergrad and law school with plans of changing the world. I made a lot of money but I was miserable. My goal for my kid is to be happy.

 

[MacDre]

Who said I don't agree with some social justice issues? I know we have issues to deal with and I believe our country is making progress, it is the lies and race baiting that I have issues with.

What lies? What race baiting?