The End of Late Bloomers?

[Grace T.]

I just posted below in the other threads...maybe more relevant here:
Does the U20 women team recent performances finally show that we have inferior youth soccer development?
The boys can hide behind the fact that we have our best athletes "stolen" by football, basketball, baseball and maybe even track and field.
Girls soccer definitely has the biggest selection pool in the world plus consistent training and regular matches since a very young age.
In Brazil, Japan, Netherland, England, girl's soccer is still not popular and yet they are at the same level with us (with less total population and definitely less money spent).
I don't know if it is coaching, pay to play scheme leaving out too many talented players or college experience disrupting the development.
Whatever it is, other nations are catching up thus proves their system is better. No wonder our boys cannot catch up with the world.

It's the college system. The United States is wedded to the idea that everyone that wants to go to college should. The soccer pay to play system we have built up is therefore directed at building college athletes. Some exhibits:
-the girls, unlike the boys, don't have a clear high level academy tier...ECNL is very broad and the play is irregular throughout the league...some teams/players are the caliber to be selected for the USWNT, some aren't. Talent is diffused so the best aren't playing with and against the best.
-we expect the players to keep up their academics. Practices are generally limited (except at the highest levels) to two times a week after school, whereas the European academies are training 5 days a week including during school hours. The players in Europe don't go to college showcases, but to play in high level tournaments against teams from other countries.
-European players are all in on athletics and if they flame out, getting back on the academic track is very hard (US colleges are actually a fallback for the well off). The European academic track doesn't have everyone going to college (there is a rigorous trade school practice which is limited in the US) and entrance to college is exam (or influence) based. Here, players divide their attention between athletics and academics.
-the academies aggregate coaching talent and train them according to a system. In US clubs, the team is a little fiefdom run by the coach under the loose guidance of the club. Each team is like a box of chocolates....you don't know what you are going to get.
-it's pay to play which acts as a barrier for the poorer kids to entry, because the function is to set up a platform to be seen by colleges, instead of a fully funded academy that will make its money back (at least in part) when the player turns pro.

 

[Grace T.]

It's the college system. The United States is wedded to the idea that everyone that wants to go to college should. The soccer pay to play system we have built up is therefore directed at building college athletes. Some exhibits:
-the girls, unlike the boys, don't have a clear high level academy tier...ECNL is very broad and the play is irregular throughout the league...some teams/players are the caliber to be selected for the USWNT, some aren't. Talent is diffused so the best aren't playing with and against the best.
-we expect the players to keep up their academics. Practices are generally limited (except at the highest levels) to two times a week after school, whereas the European academies are training 5 days a week including during school hours. The players in Europe don't go to college showcases, but to play in high level tournaments against teams from other countries.
-European players are all in on athletics and if they flame out, getting back on the academic track is very hard (US colleges are actually a fallback for the well off). The European academic track doesn't have everyone going to college (there is a rigorous trade school practice which is limited in the US) and entrance to college is exam (or influence) based. Here, players divide their attention between athletics and academics.
-the academies aggregate coaching talent and train them according to a system. In US clubs, the team is a little fiefdom run by the coach under the loose guidance of the club. Each team is like a box of chocolates....you don't know what you are going to get.
-it's pay to play which acts as a barrier for the poorer kids to entry, because the function is to set up a platform to be seen by colleges, instead of a fully funded academy that will make its money back (at least in part) when the player turns pro.

p.s. my son's gk coach and I were just having this conversation. We were going through the list of everything he needs to work on, and I sighed "there's just so much to work on". The current list: chipped ball accuracy, the proper 1/5 catches to do within the bubble, some work on skipped balls off into a low dive, the salmon leap when it's not knocked directly at you, horizontal movement on the far post cross, out of the box sweeping control skills (on head, chest and knee). That's before we even get to conditioning, movement and maintaining the other skills, and given that he's very solid on what I would consider the basics. With team practices, he's able to get in there maybe 1-2 times a week for 1hr- 2hrs. How do we get through the entire list in that particular time, especially now that school is starting up again and he's beginning to carry high level courses?

The US has had strength on both the men's and women's side that we were able to transform kids that had handling experience with other ball sports into Gks. Given the new early bloomer training methods coming out of European academies (where kids are forced to pick their positions early and then train 5 days a week), I don't think that will be true very much longer.

 

[jojon]

-the academies aggregate coaching talent and train them according to a system. In US clubs, the team is a little fiefdom run by the coach under the loose guidance of the club. Each team is like a box of chocolates....you don't know what you are going to get.

This is the most frustrating situation for me, does not matter what level, this is driving me crazy, definitely not the best environment for child soccer development. Do you really need a "fixed" team for 9yr old or even 12? Players should be able to move up and down level in an organized system, not scrambling, stressing parents out every end of season.
Agree with your other reasonings about college system...

 

[MacDre]

It's the college system. The United States is wedded to the idea that everyone that wants to go to college should. The soccer pay to play system we have built up is therefore directed at building college athletes. Some exhibits:
-the girls, unlike the boys, don't have a clear high level academy tier...ECNL is very broad and the play is irregular throughout the league...some teams/players are the caliber to be selected for the USWNT, some aren't. Talent is diffused so the best aren't playing with and against the best.
-we expect the players to keep up their academics. Practices are generally limited (except at the highest levels) to two times a week after school, whereas the European academies are training 5 days a week including during school hours. The players in Europe don't go to college showcases, but to play in high level tournaments against teams from other countries.
-European players are all in on athletics and if they flame out, getting back on the academic track is very hard (US colleges are actually a fallback for the well off). The European academic track doesn't have everyone going to college (there is a rigorous trade school practice which is limited in the US) and entrance to college is exam (or influence) based. Here, players divide their attention between athletics and academics.
-the academies aggregate coaching talent and train them according to a system. In US clubs, the team is a little fiefdom run by the coach under the loose guidance of the club. Each team is like a box of chocolates....you don't know what you are going to get.
-it's pay to play which acts as a barrier for the poorer kids to entry, because the function is to set up a platform to be seen by colleges, instead of a fully funded academy that will make its money back (at least in part) when the player turns pro.

Where’s @crush when you need him? Where’s the option for the folks that don’t want to go to college? Looks like Europe has an academic track and an athletic track, why don’t we have both? Is it possible, for around 15% of youth soccer to target those not interested in college?

 

[MacDre]

Someone correct me if I’m wrong, but this isn’t the first time we got molly wopped at the U20 level. My understanding, is that we’ve been “getting the brakes” beat off of us for quite sometime (aprox the last 2-3 WC’s) at the U17 and U20 level.

Are the failures at the U17 and U20 Women’s World Cups a symptom of deeper YNT problems?

The USA was knocked out of the 2018 FIFA U-17 Women’s World Cup this week following a 4-0 loss to Germany, a 3-0 loss to North Korea, and a 3-0 win against Cameroon, placing last in Group C. This f…

norcalsoccerdad.com

 

[socalkdg]

A word of warning...for the past few years my kiddo was on a team where they play a possession game. My kid has gotten really good with her feet (worked her butt off to advance this skill) and acts like an additional defender. 90%, if not more, of her balls are played on the ground out of the back. In talks with college coaches their statement is "we (the college) play direct and haven't seen what you can do with the long ball"

Make sure you kiddo shows in showcases that she can do both (mine can do a long ball - its all her high school team can/will do) even if it isn't the way the team normally does things.

Agree. After three or four shorter passes, nothing like taking a pass back just at the 18, see the defense pressing, and going over the top to a sprinting forward once in a while. Funny thing my daughter probably has the best chip over the top on her team and takes most free kicks up to the halfway line. Good luck to your kid during the recruiting wars. Hope she finds her future college.

 

[espola]

Agree. After three or four shorter passes, nothing like taking a pass back just at the 18, see the defense pressing, and going over the top to a sprinting forward once in a while. Funny thing my daughter probably has the best chip over the top on her team and takes most free kicks up to the halfway line. Good luck to your kid during the recruiting wars. Hope she finds her future college.

You're going to be accused of playing kickball.

 

[MamaBear5]

Good luck to your kid during the recruiting wars. Hope she finds her future college.

Thanks - she has accepted an offer to her dream school.

 

[outside!]

Huh, wut? You are misconstruing what I am trying to say. My point is simple: Many states in the USA are similar in size and population to countries in Europe. For example, Belgium has a population of approximately of 11.5 million compared to Illinois that has a population of approximately 12.5 million. California has a population of approximately 39 million compared to Spain that has a population of 48 million. Arizona has a population of approximately 7.2 million compared to Finland (5.5 million) and Sweden’s 10.5 population etc. etc…and the list goes on.

So, please explain why each and every State Association isn’t capable of competing against countries in Europe that have similar populations as their State?

Southern California has the population density and facilities to produce teams that could compete at the international level. We just need to get rid of all of the national organizations and compete locally, concentrate our talent and provide avenues for players from more diverse economic backgrounds. Top players from this system could chose college or professional sports (or both).

 

[Grace T.]

Southern California has the population density and facilities to produce teams that could compete at the international level. We just need to get rid of all of the national organizations and compete locally, concentrate our talent and provide avenues for players from more diverse economic backgrounds. Top players from this system could chose college or professional sports (or both).

There are a handful of other places as well but you are right few places shine like SoCal. I've watched quite a few boys ECNL games from other regions of the country. Was surprised that some of the keepers were still slapping away the ball, falling instead of diving and not using proper crossing technique. Most of the boys keepers in the same age group in SoCal, even as low as the top flight 2 keepers, are already performing above that level.

We spent a few months of the pandemic out in Salt Lake City and my son got to do some training and camps. It's a city built for soccer (lots of pristine parks, lots of goals, lots of suburbs, a pro long standing MLS team). Was also really surprised at the level of goalkeeping there (not in a good way), particularly among the girls.

 

[socalkdg]

Was also really surprised at the level of goalkeeping there (not in a good way), particularly among the girls.

I believe that 90% of the time the best athletes on the girls side aren't playing goalkeeper. This is why you aren't seeing the level you would expect.