T 2.0

whatithink said:
From what I can tell, we currently have plausible deniability from involvement, which we should keep. If we give Israel bunker busters, then we have certainly painted a target (bigger than now) on every US base in the Middle East. We have also removed any credibility as honest brokers in any negotiations with Iran.

Netanyahu has been wanting to go after Iran for decades. He has said they are "this close" to nuclear bombs for the same time period. He has wanted to drag the US into a war with Iran, just like he did everything he could to drag us into the war with Iraq, including Congressional testimony about how awesome the ME would be post-Saddam.

  • Both Gabbard, in March, and the IAEA stated that Iran is not developing nuclear weapons. There were concerns from the IAEA about some access.
  • Iran has had the technical ability to build nukes for decades. That genie is well out of the bottle. It hasn't done so. You can't bomb that knowledge away. Killing 9 nuclear scientists has zero impact either, they have hundreds in their nuclear program.
  • Destroying their existing facilities may set them back a couple of years at best, what then?
  • Assuming no regime change, the likeliest reaction from Iran would be that they need nukes, maybe just buy them from Pakistan or get the uranium there.
Click to expand...
Not sure if Tulsi has any credibility with anyone right now.
 
Hüsker Dü said:
Not sure if Tulsi has any credibility with anyone right now.
Click to expand...
Sure, but her testimony to Congress is consistent with all other US intelligence statements and the IAEA; she didn't just wing it you know.

BTW, there is no guarantee that even our bunker busters can penetrate Fordow, which is buried deep in a mountain.

The only way of guaranteeing the destruction of Iran's nuclear capabilities is boots on the ground. Iran is 4 times larger than Iraq, with double the population. Given how awesome Iraq went and how we substantiated the WMD that they had, why would we not go all in and invade Iran too? What could possibly go wrong?
 
whatithink said:
Illegal immigrants can't vote anywhere in the US in any election, local, state or federal. Legal immigrants, non-citizens, can vote in some local elections, but cannot vote in any Federal elections.

I've said in B&W that Biden fucked up the border, why the comprehension issue?

Your assertion that illegals are voting is BS. Your rationale is hyperbolic blah blah.
Click to expand...
Maybe I gave you too much credit. Libtards saying it's racist to require ID, when voting, is Part 1 of the scam. You deliberately ignoring that makes me laugh. Just like you ignored all the freebies we taxpayers are providing them. Please don't insult me and suggest illegals are all paying taxes, either. And let's not pretend, at the very same time, dems aren't writing legislation to let illegal aliens vote. The evidence of that is all over the place. I never said they were successful. Part 2 of the plan.

The dems are know their existing voter base is leaving. And yes, I know you said Biden fucked up the border. Truth is, if you're a democrat, he didn't fuck up the border. He just failed to execute the plan in time. He did what he set out to do and ran out of time.

Your denial is embarrassing as to WHY he opened the borders. Do you think he just likes buying garlic at lower prices? What could POSSIBLY be another motivation for doing what he did? Take a guess for us.
 
whatithink said:
From what I can tell, we currently have plausible deniability from involvement, which we should keep. If we give Israel bunker busters, then we have certainly painted a target (bigger than now) on every US base in the Middle East. We have also removed any credibility as honest brokers in any negotiations with Iran.

Netanyahu has been wanting to go after Iran for decades. He has said they are "this close" to nuclear bombs for the same time period. He has wanted to drag the US into a war with Iran, just like he did everything he could to drag us into the war with Iraq, including Congressional testimony about how awesome the ME would be post-Saddam.

  • Both Gabbard, in March, and the IAEA stated that Iran is not developing nuclear weapons. There were concerns from the IAEA about some access.
  • Iran has had the technical ability to build nukes for decades. That genie is well out of the bottle. It hasn't done so. You can't bomb that knowledge away. Killing 9 nuclear scientists has zero impact either, they have hundreds in their nuclear program.
  • Destroying their existing facilities may set them back a couple of years at best, what then?
  • Assuming no regime change, the likeliest reaction from Iran would be that they need nukes, maybe just buy them from Pakistan or get the uranium there.
Click to expand...
Like I said a number of posts ago, I hope Israel knows what it is doing and this isn't a WMD situation.

The only thing I would quibble with, is that Iran doesn't need an excuse to attack our bases, it has done so consistently without provocation. I'm not convinced we have plausible deniability at this point.
 
Slobodan said:
Maybe I gave you too much credit. Libtards saying it's racist to require ID, when voting, is Part 1 of the scam. You deliberately ignoring that makes me laugh. Just like you ignored all the freebies we taxpayers are providing them. Please don't insult me and suggest illegals are all paying taxes, either. And let's not pretend, at the very same time, dems aren't writing legislation to let illegal aliens vote. The evidence of that is all over the place. I never said they were successful. Part 2 of the plan.

The dems are know their existing voter base is leaving. And yes, I know you said Biden fucked up the border. Truth is, if you're a democrat, he didn't fuck up the border. He just failed to execute the plan in time. He did what he set out to do and ran out of time.

Your denial is embarrassing as to WHY he opened the borders. Do you think he just likes buying garlic at lower prices? What could POSSIBLY be another motivation for doing what he did? Take a guess for us.
Click to expand...
And Democrat's have a vested interest in keeping illegals, illegal. Once they become legal immigrants the Dem's lose a certain level of control over the individual. Proof of wanting to keep them illegal, are sanctuary cities, and states, and the manner in which Dem's go out of their way to protect illegals, even criminal ones.

On a side note, look how Dem's lost their shit when Abbott tried to secure the Texas border. They screamed that immigration is a Federal not state issue. Meanwhile, they enjoy their sanctuary cities where local law enforcement is prohibited from cooperating with federal law enforcement. Hypocrisy is not just a Dem issue, but damn why do they make it so obvious? (see Musk for another current example).
 
Slobodan said:
Maybe I gave you too much credit. Libtards saying it's racist to require ID, when voting, is Part 1 of the scam. You deliberately ignoring that makes me laugh. Just like you ignored all the freebies we taxpayers are providing them. Please don't insult me and suggest illegals are all paying taxes, either. And let's not pretend, at the very same time, dems aren't writing legislation to let illegal aliens vote. The evidence of that is all over the place. I never said they were successful. Part 2 of the plan.

The dems are know their existing voter base is leaving. And yes, I know you said Biden fucked up the border. Truth is, if you're a democrat, he didn't fuck up the border. He just failed to execute the plan in time. He did what he set out to do and ran out of time.

Your denial is embarrassing as to WHY he opened the borders. Do you think he just likes buying garlic at lower prices? What could POSSIBLY be another motivation for doing what he did? Take a guess for us.
Click to expand...
I'm fine with ID for voting. It should be mandated that every HS student is issued with ID once they hit 18, assuming they don't already have a driver's license, where it should state if they are a citizen or not. Let's keep those databases accurate and up to date. Everyone else should present themselves with their current ID to validate they are a citizen or should be allowed to get one, free obviously as there can be no "poll tax" on voting, on proving citizenship. This should be easy and convenient for everyone.

I'm also down with only voting in person and on election day. To achieve that, elections should be mandated as public holidays - everything shuts. It would be illegal for an employer to interfere in preventing an employee from voting. Voting centers should be setup relative to population, i.e. a consistent ratio of center to population density. There should also be transport (free) available to/from voting centers for those who are mobility impaired or where distance is an issue (like rural areas or reservations etc). Centers should not close if people are still waiting to vote.

I'm even down with the Australian system where you are mandated to vote, enrollment is automatic, and can be fined if you do not. They have participation rates of 90% or so.

There is zero chance any of the above happens, esp. the last one because neither party wants 90% of people voting, that's their nightmare scenario.

High numbers of voter participation and ID systems etc. are all solved problems. Our pols don't want any of those solutions, esp. the 90% participation rate one :)eek:), so spare me the party political about this.
 
watfly said:
Like I said a number of posts ago, I hope Israel knows what it is doing and this isn't a WMD situation.

The only thing I would quibble with, is that Iran doesn't need an excuse to attack our bases, it has done so consistently without provocation. I'm not convinced we have plausible deniability at this point.
Click to expand...
Israel's plan is to get us actively involved. Trump's comments are removing our deniability.

From the Israeli press

“We need to hope that this actually happens, and possibly very soon,” the veteran commentator, Ben Caspit, wrote in Ma’ariv newspaper on Wednesday. “Take all the credit, Donald. The important thing is that you ultimately decide to join.”

Writing in Yedioth Ahronoth, Shimon Shiffer argued: “Without the involvement of the United States, the war with Iran will not reach a decisive conclusion that justifies our assault on the ayatollahs’ regime and the heavy price that Israeli citizens are paying with their lives and property.

“Mr President, come save the world,” Shiffer wrote. “Come save us from Iran. Come save us from ourselves.”
 
whatithink said:
Israel's plan is to get us actively involved. Trump's comments are removing our deniability.

From the Israeli press

“We need to hope that this actually happens, and possibly very soon,” the veteran commentator, Ben Caspit, wrote in Ma’ariv newspaper on Wednesday. “Take all the credit, Donald. The important thing is that you ultimately decide to join.”

Writing in Yedioth Ahronoth, Shimon Shiffer argued: “Without the involvement of the United States, the war with Iran will not reach a decisive conclusion that justifies our assault on the ayatollahs’ regime and the heavy price that Israeli citizens are paying with their lives and property.

“Mr President, come save the world,” Shiffer wrote. “Come save us from Iran. Come save us from ourselves.”
Click to expand...
The administration has been a bit inconsistent on the conflict. I.e. Rubio's original statement vs. Trump's current rhetoric.

It's obvious on its face that Israel would want our participation. You don't have to post quotes to convince me. ;)
 
Panicans (we got many on here)

“Trump’s tariffs are gonna cause a recession!”

*Booming economy*

“Trump’s tariffs are gonna destroy the stock market!”

*stocks near all time highs”

“Mass deportations will hurt the economy!”

*Booming economy with rising middle class wages*

“Trump’s going to start WW3 and be worse than George Bush!”
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top