T 2.0

watfly said:
I'm thankful and I can appreciate that the stock market continued to grow under the Biden administration. What policies did Biden, or whoever was actually running the country at the time, implement to recover from the Covid lockdowns caused economic crash? From my perspective the recovery was driven by the American spirit of resilience more than anything else.

40% of Americans aren't even in the market. Given the highest inflation in 50 years, I'm not sure the 40% would consider it an economic recovery.
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The "American Rescue Plan" (as named) provided hundreds of billions to (respectively) businesses (large & small), state/local governments, education/childcare, healthcare, transportation/infrastructure, people (stimulus, extended unemployment, child tax credits). And with those hundreds of billions we girded our loins and climbed up on to the money and said, "look at what we've done all by our$selve$", lol.

Then you had the infrastructure act, the inflation reduction act, the Chips act etc.

I don't doubt the resilience of people, everywhere, but if government had done nothing, we'd be deep unwater right now, slowly rising probably.

The large injections at the end of the Trump admin and the beginning of the Biden one, stopped us going into recession and those injections brought us out of the trough quicker than anyone else.
 
Desert Hound said:
It should really be one of the biggest political/media scandals ever.

It was clear and we now know he had big issues in 2019.
It is clear he wasn't in charge. So who was actually making decisions? Notice the press isn't curious.
The Dem leadership knew he was toast and continually lied to the public that BIden was as sharp as ever.
The WH staff and press secretary consistently told us in meetings this guy was a go getter. He was not capable of that.
The press at every turn protected Biden and said gaffes were just a stutter, told us videos had been manipulated, etc.

The level of dishonesty and manipulation is breathtaking.

When it was clear Biden couldn't go on....they installed Harris as the go to. Not a single person voted for her to become the Dem nominee. She was simply airdropped in...and then the press and Dem leadership pretending this was all just fine.
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If Biden was not compos mentis, then the biggest issues, to me, are
  • when did it happen?
  • from then, who was making the decisions?
  • what or who stopped the cabinet from invoking the 25th?
 
whatithink said:
The "American Rescue Plan" (as named) provided hundreds of billions to (respectively) businesses (large & small), state/local governments, education/childcare, healthcare, transportation/infrastructure, people (stimulus, extended unemployment, child tax credits). And with those hundreds of billions we girded our loins and climbed up on to the money and said, "look at what we've done all by our$selve$", lol.

Then you had the infrastructure act, the inflation reduction act, the Chips act etc.

I don't doubt the resilience of people, everywhere, but if government had done nothing, we'd be deep unwater right now, slowly rising probably.

The large injections at the end of the Trump admin and the beginning of the Biden one, stopped us going into recession and those injections brought us out of the trough quicker than anyone else.
Click to expand...
To some extent, I don't believe that Biden (and Trump for that matter) should get credit for putting out fires they started. It wasn't so much that Covid caused the economic crash, it was the lockdowns. Now much of that was controlled on the State level, but the Biden administration was a big cheerleader for lockdowns, school closures, jabs for jobs etc.

The government isn't capable of managing any form of stimulus because of the complete lack of internal controls. Too much of it is lost to fraud. Both Trump and Biden should have known better and put more guardrails in to aid. I can't recall the exact number but the the stimulus given was multi-fold greater than actual income losses, which is one of the reasons we're saddled with record inflation.

I will note that the stock market had recovered from Covid crash by the time Trump left office. Biden had a nearly two year period with a down and stagnant market (Jan 22-Nov 23).
 
whatithink said:
If Biden was not compos mentis, then the biggest issues, to me, are
  • when did it happen?
  • from then, who was making the decisions?
  • what or who stopped the cabinet from invoking the 25th?
Click to expand...
Check out the Megyn Kelly interview of Tapper and Thompson. They talk about the 1st two, not much about the 3rd, but the implication is that Jill played a large role. Or download a copy of the book (and send a copy to me).;)

What makes you think that that cabinet would have invoked the 25th knowing the truth? The Dem's position was that anyone was better than Trump. According to Tapper, Biden didn't meet with his Cabinet, but the Cabinet members had to meet with the 4 people in his inner circle, and they allegedly passed that information along to Biden. However, that's not an excuse for Cabinet members not to fulfill their duties to citizens.

There is no way to spin this other than as a blatant coverup by the administration with the complicity of the media (either knowingly or failure to do their job because of bias).
 
Desert Hound said:
It should really be one of the biggest political/media scandals ever.

The level of dishonesty and manipulation is breathtaking.
Click to expand...
This can’t be overstated. It’s crazy how many people willingly accept being misled and lied to. Fortunately, the left keeps doubling down on their strategy snapping more and more out of their, “Trump is the ultimate evil” trance.
 
whatithink said:
The "American Rescue Plan" (as named) provided hundreds of billions to (respectively) businesses (large & small), state/local governments, education/childcare, healthcare, transportation/infrastructure, people (stimulus, extended unemployment, child tax credits). And with those hundreds of billions we girded our loins and climbed up on to the money and said, "look at what we've done all by our$selve$", lol.

Then you had the infrastructure act, the inflation reduction act, the Chips act etc.

I don't doubt the resilience of people, everywhere, but if government had done nothing, we'd be deep unwater right now, slowly rising probably.

The large injections at the end of the Trump admin and the beginning of the Biden one, stopped us going into recession and those injections brought us out of the trough quicker than anyone else.
Click to expand...
Actually had gov done nothing we would be far better off.

Gov shut schools and businesses in a wasted effort to stop the spread of covid. Then they attempted to give money to said business and people to try to help them out due to the damage gov caused.
 
These past 4 months have been good for identifying future Republican Presidential candidates. In the primary, I liked both Ramaswamy and Gabbard. I’ll add Vance and Rubio to that list. Oh, also, Karoline Leavitt - separate from an imminent Presidential candidate - damn, she’s amazing at her job.

Any thoughts on how the Dems are doing? Do they have a single well-known individual capable of thinking on their feet?
 
watfly said:
That's all well and good, but where's Cuomo's mea culpa? He needs to come clean about what was happening at CNN and how his bosses controlled what could be reported.

When Cuomo was on CNN I thought he was the biggest DB on TV. I actually can tolerate watching him on NewsNation.
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Apparently you don’t see the hyperbolic swings to be relevant by CC. O’Reilly? Really? Steven A? I will say his show is the best one on newsnation, but he panders back and forth while claiming centralist bravado.
 
watfly said:
I want to read his book, but I'm not paying for it. If anyone gets a PDF copy, pass it along.

Anyone that had half a brain knew Biden was cognitively impaired; however, based on what's being reported its becoming clear that he was actually incapacitated for the most part, and incapable of fulfilling his presidential duties. But we just need to move forward, like the Dem's did with Jan 6. 🤣 🤣 🤣
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“move forward”? What would you like to see happen? Impeach Biden? Maybe just let Trump stay on as long as he wants?
 
kickingandscreaming said:
These past 4 months have been good for identifying future Republican Presidential candidates. In the primary, I liked both Ramaswamy and Gabbard. I’ll add Vance and Rubio to that list. Oh, also, Karoline Leavitt - separate from an imminent Presidential candidate - damn, she’s amazing at her job.

Any thoughts on how the Dems are doing? Do they have a single well-known individual capable of thinking on their feet?
Click to expand...
So much can happen between now and then, but I'll indulge. Rubio seems like the most presidential, Vance will probably be in the mix just by virtue of him being the VP. I like the other two, but I don't see them as presidential. It would be nice to have someone that is both competent and has good character...for a change.

The Dems are going to have to come up with something different than "orange man bad" and siding with 20% issues. Shapiro seems like a reasonable guy, so that disqualifies him unless something changes policy wise in the party. Right now AOC and Bernie are the Dem's favorites so that should tell you everything you need to know. A viable Dem party would benefit the country.
 
Hüsker Dü said:
Apparently you don’t see the hyperbolic swings to be relevant by CC. O’Reilly? Really? Steven A? I will say his show is the best one on newsnation, but he panders back and forth while claiming centralist bravado.
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You could be right, it's how I feel about Maher centrist's act. It could just be pandering for survival. Hyperbole is CC's schtick, at least he is willing to hear an opposing opinion which is the Dem's kryptonite. I wish Dan Abrams was still on NN.
 
watfly said:
Check out the Megyn Kelly interview of Tapper and Thompson. They talk about the 1st two, not much about the 3rd, but the implication is that Jill played a large role. Or download a copy of the book (and send a copy to me).;)

What makes you think that that cabinet would have invoked the 25th knowing the truth? The Dem's position was that anyone was better than Trump. According to Tapper, Biden didn't meet with his Cabinet, but the Cabinet members had to meet with the 4 people in his inner circle, and they allegedly passed that information along to Biden. However, that's not an excuse for Cabinet members not to fulfill their duties to citizens.

There is no way to spin this other than as a blatant coverup by the administration with the complicity of the media (either knowingly or failure to do their job because of bias).
Click to expand...
Cabinet members take an oath of office, as required by the Constitution. So, if they knew, then they have a legal duty and constitutional ability to act ... hence they should have had a vote to invoke the 25th, as their oath required and the Constitution allows.
 
Desert Hound said:
Actually had gov done nothing we would be far better off.

Gov shut schools and businesses in a wasted effort to stop the spread of covid. Then they attempted to give money to said business and people to try to help them out due to the damage gov caused.
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Whichever and whatever, once the decisions were made, subsequent action was required.
 
whatithink said:
Cabinet members take an oath of office, as required by the Constitution. So, if they knew, then they have a legal duty and constitutional ability to act ... hence they should have had a vote to invoke the 25th, as their oath required and the Constitution allows.
Click to expand...
You're guess is as good as mine as to why they didn't consider it. Trump's cabinet discussed the 25th for something far less invasive than the Biden situation.
 
watfly said:
To some extent, I don't believe that Biden (and Trump for that matter) should get credit for putting out fires they started. It wasn't so much that Covid caused the economic crash, it was the lockdowns. Now much of that was controlled on the State level, but the Biden administration was a big cheerleader for lockdowns, school closures, jabs for jobs etc.

The government isn't capable of managing any form of stimulus because of the complete lack of internal controls. Too much of it is lost to fraud. Both Trump and Biden should have known better and put more guardrails in to aid. I can't recall the exact number but the the stimulus given was multi-fold greater than actual income losses, which is one of the reasons we're saddled with record inflation.

I will note that the stock market had recovered from Covid crash by the time Trump left office. Biden had a nearly two year period with a down and stagnant market (Jan 22-Nov 23).
Click to expand...
The lockdowns were in 2020, before Biden took office. They were mostly gone by the time he took office, with some limited shutdowns for Covid surges in early 2021. The economic damage from Covid was baked in when Biden took office.

Dow Closing end of year, Biden's years - overall, Dow increased 40% during his admin.
- Dec'20, 30K
- Dec'21 36K ^ 20%
- Dec'22 33K \/ 8%
- Dec'23 37K ^ 12%
- Dec'24 42K ^ 14%
 
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