Surf Cup

I get it...direct play is effective for U11 and younger (especially on small fields) and everybody likes to win. But where does player development fit in? What do players need to work on now to make them the best player they can be 2-3 years down the road? I think always playing direct and not focusing on technical skills/passing/reading the game does a disservice to players at this age. I also get that it's not easy to balance winning versus development. Some coaches are looking to develop players long-term and sacrifice wins. Other coaches prioritize winning now and do not care about player development.

If you look at the top younger boys teams/players it is night and day compared to girls. Boys focus is on technical ability, passing, movement off the ball. Why the boys focus on this and the girls do not remains a mystery to me. Watch a TFA, LAFC or Galaxy academy team play...their team play is unreal. A few weeks ago the 2009 ODP girls scrimmaged the 09 ODP boys. The girls were bigger and just as fast as the boys. The boys beat the girls 13-1. And these were not even the best 09 boys (didn't see any MLS Next players on the list).

Talk to parents of ECNL players U14 and older and they will all say the same thing...focus on your players development first and everything else comes second.

Congrats to all the teams that battled this past weekend.
 
2013, 2010, and 2006 parent here, so I will admit I don’t know much about these two teams. But, knowing the clubs and the other age groups well I would guess that both teams play “pretty soccer” (which probably means tica taka to many here) most of the time. But when you get to a final against a team with similar athleticism and aggression, they play direct because that’s what gives them a chance to win. Although, I do agree with the comment above that the boys tend to focus more on the technical side and ball movement. U8 and U9 TFA teams are incredible to watch.
 
rainbow_unicorn said:
I get it...direct play is effective for U11 and younger (especially on small fields) and everybody likes to win. But where does player development fit in? What do players need to work on now to make them the best player they can be 2-3 years down the road? I think always playing direct and not focusing on technical skills/passing/reading the game does a disservice to players at this age. I also get that it's not easy to balance winning versus development. Some coaches are looking to develop players long-term and sacrifice wins. Other coaches prioritize winning now and do not care about player development.

If you look at the top younger boys teams/players it is night and day compared to girls. Boys focus is on technical ability, passing, movement off the ball. Why the boys focus on this and the girls do not remains a mystery to me. Watch a TFA, LAFC or Galaxy academy team play...their team play is unreal. A few weeks ago the 2009 ODP girls scrimmaged the 09 ODP boys. The girls were bigger and just as fast as the boys. The boys beat the girls 13-1. And these were not even the best 09 boys (didn't see any MLS Next players on the list).

Talk to parents of ECNL players U14 and older and they will all say the same thing...focus on your players development first and everything else comes second.

Congrats to all the teams that battled this past weekend.
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Maybe you are only looking at it from 1 side of the ball. Like someone else said, these two teams are very good defensively that they made each other look ugly. They pressure well and take away the pass. Hard to look pretty when both teams are great defensively. They both for the most part dominated their respective league games in the spring and I'm sure they looked "pretty" against those teams. But when going against a similarly matched team, theres bound to be a lot of ugly moments. And to be fair, I think every coach, club, and biased parent claim to play possession style soccer. Most of the time at this age I see very little possession and more blind kicking. After all, they are still 9/10 years old.
 
rainbow_unicorn said:
I get it...direct play is effective for U11 and younger (especially on small fields) and everybody likes to win. But where does player development fit in? What do players need to work on now to make them the best player they can be 2-3 years down the road? I think always playing direct and not focusing on technical skills/passing/reading the game does a disservice to players at this age. I also get that it's not easy to balance winning versus development. Some coaches are looking to develop players long-term and sacrifice wins. Other coaches prioritize winning now and do not care about player development.

If you look at the top younger boys teams/players it is night and day compared to girls. Boys focus is on technical ability, passing, movement off the ball. Why the boys focus on this and the girls do not remains a mystery to me. Watch a TFA, LAFC or Galaxy academy team play...their team play is unreal. A few weeks ago the 2009 ODP girls scrimmaged the 09 ODP boys. The girls were bigger and just as fast as the boys. The boys beat the girls 13-1. And these were not even the best 09 boys (didn't see any MLS Next players on the list).

Talk to parents of ECNL players U14 and older and they will all say the same thing...focus on your players development first and everything else comes second.

Congrats to all the teams that battled this past weekend.
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You can't compare boys to girls. The USWNT lost a scrimmage to a U-15 boy's team 5 to 2 If I recall. Same with The Australian Women's Team. Some girls will compete against boys, but there is a distinct advantage in speed and strength with boys vs. girls. All of these teams practice technical skills and passing. The Slammers and The Blues have plenty of winning ecnl teams, so fear not Blues and Slammers Parents. These girls are 10 years old playing 9 v 9 on a small field. The goal is to win the final. There were teams from Georgia, Texas, Washington, etc. etc. Highly doubt they were coming here to develop. Development is a constant part of playing and training. Both of these teams are developing in amazing fashion!
 
There are tournaments/games where the coach can play around with the lineup and “develop players”. There are times where you need to play to win and advance out of group, semi or final. It’s a little naive to think a coach should try to develop in a semi/final game. Development kicks in at practice with the right coach that’s pushing the best out of your kid. That should translate onto the games. When top teams at this age group like Blues, Slammers and Legends play eachother it will not be pretty because they offset eachother. The thing that blows my mind is when a top team tries to score straight from kick off lol I guess everyone has strategies.
 
This whole conversation reminds me of this commercial I see all the time by Spectrum Mobile. Two guys playing golf and one guy is using a golf video for training. His friend said to tell his computer trainer that he just shot a 12 on the last hole. To which the computer trained friend says "whose counting?". Then the friend says " EVERYBODY! That's the whole point of golf!".

I know we have to contend with refs., guest players, etc., but the ultimate judge is the scoreboard. I've never been disappointed as a parent watching my kid take a picture with her team and their trophy. Not saying it's everything in any way, but everyone I know that speaks honestly would say the same.

These girls work hard DEVELOPING EVERY WEEK OF THE YEAR! I originally wanted to commend The Surf, because they swallowed a goal that could have been avoided. As a parent, this would upset me and nearly every parent I know would be peaved. Those Surf girls were crying after. They may have built some development, but so may have the other team who used pressure and brut force to steal the ball and score against their "DEVELOPMENT" in a semi final game.

There were a lot of missed passes and missed deep balls to the forward players, but that is not bad strategy to win in any way. Those misses will soon become connections as the offense learns to show and find and the defense gets more precise to connect. That is development!

Kind of regretting mentioning them, because some take a compliment to one team as an opening to insult the teams that made it to the finals. I don't know if it's sore losers, excuses, or just hate on teams that win a lot? I know there is contention in here.

I am curious though which 2011 teams exuded development well at The Surf Cup? I go by the scoreboard myself like the golf friend and I am happy we don't have to rely on judges opinions on scoring. Dealing with refs is hard enough!

Every team has different players and strategies. As far as the shot from the kick off, I bet it worked before. It puts a lot of teams on their heels from the get go including the goalie and these are young goalies. If anything, small fields, no headers, and 9 v 9 create this environment for fast, aggressive athletic girls. Possession is great, but they also need to develop runs, anticipation, trapping, and one touch passes/shooting. Some of these girls are developing big legs and can score from the mid line now. I saw a couple games opened up with goals from 20 feet outside the goal box.
 
way up said:
This whole conversation reminds me of this commercial I see all the time by Spectrum Mobile. Two guys playing golf and one guy is using a golf video for training. His friend said to tell his computer trainer that he just shot a 12 on the last hole. To which the computer trained friend says "whose counting?". Then the friend says " EVERYBODY! That's the whole point of golf!".

I know we have to contend with refs., guest players, etc., but the ultimate judge is the scoreboard. I've never been disappointed as a parent watching my kid take a picture with her team and their trophy. Not saying it's everything in any way, but everyone I know that speaks honestly would say the same.

These girls work hard DEVELOPING EVERY WEEK OF THE YEAR! I originally wanted to commend The Surf, because they swallowed a goal that could have been avoided. As a parent, this would upset me and nearly every parent I know would be peaved. Those Surf girls were crying after. They may have built some development, but so may have the other team who used pressure and brut force to steal the ball and score against their "DEVELOPMENT" in a semi final game.

There were a lot of missed passes and missed deep balls to the forward players, but that is not bad strategy to win in any way. Those misses will soon become connections as the offense learns to show and find and the defense gets more precise to connect. That is development!

Kind of regretting mentioning them, because some take a compliment to one team as an opening to insult the teams that made it to the finals. I don't know if it's sore losers, excuses, or just hate on teams that win a lot? I know there is contention in here.

I am curious though which 2011 teams exuded development well at The Surf Cup? I go by the scoreboard myself like the golf friend and I am happy we don't have to rely on judges opinions on scoring. Dealing with refs is hard enough!

Every team has different players and strategies. As far as the shot from the kick off, I bet it worked before. It puts a lot of teams on their heels from the get go including the goalie and these are young goalies. If anything, small fields, no headers, and 9 v 9 create this environment for fast, aggressive athletic girls. Possession is great, but they also need to develop runs, anticipation, trapping, and one touch passes/shooting. Some of these girls are developing big legs and can score from the mid line now. I saw a couple games opened up with goals from 20 feet outside the goal box.
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Also, I hope that coach did not say one negative thing to those girls who got trapped and suffered the goal. That's part of their development. There is a time to develop and a time to focus on strategy to win. I'm sure many point to "development" whenever they lose games too though? You have to come up with something to explain all the time and money parents put into club soccer if they are not winning I guess though too? Most times teams switch to the next coach, development is what is preached and soon later, winning becomes the goal. It just seems like so many want to talk about development and what's best for the girls as they face enormous pressure with play time, tryouts, that new fast, fresh girl that plays the same position, game results, errors, etc. It is what it is!
 
way up said:
You can't compare boys to girls. The USWNT lost a scrimmage to a U-15 boy's team 5 to 2 If I recall. Same with The Australian Women's Team. Some girls will compete against boys, but there is a distinct advantage in speed and strength with boys vs. girls. All of these teams practice technical skills and passing. The Slammers and The Blues have plenty of winning ecnl teams, so fear not Blues and Slammers Parents. These girls are 10 years old playing 9 v 9 on a small field. The goal is to win the final. There were teams from Georgia, Texas, Washington, etc. etc. Highly doubt they were coming here to develop. Development is a constant part of playing and training. Both of these teams are developing in amazing fashion!
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You can compare girls and boys prior to boys hitting puberty (U13/14).
 
rainbow_unicorn said:
You can compare girls and boys prior to boys hitting puberty (U13/14).
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You can compare whoever or whatever you want, but that doesn't mean it's an accurate comparison. They are still not the same in any way. At my daughter's school, the boys play sports any minute they can while the girls do not. Call it pre-formed behavioral patterns or whatever you want, but boys are far more competitive and aggressive even in their youth. I'm willing to bet that boys brains are even more driven to win and compete compared to boys. Girls are even treated differently. Most of us are taught by our clubs early on how sensitive girls are and that we need to give them their space while I see parents yell at their boys like ravenous animals. There are some wild and unruly girl's parents too, but I see the boys far more likely to absorb mental abuse than girls. Most of our girls playing soccer are the exception to being physical and aggressive not the norm.

Boys and girls at all ages are different physically and mentally. Puberty just adds testosterone and more life experience/expectancy with boys.
 
It seems these discussions usually revert to direct versus technical as if one were bad and the other good. The teams with the best technical players are not averse to making g long direct passes when the conditions warrant.
 
espola said:
It seems these discussions usually revert to direct versus technical as if one were bad and the other good. The teams with the best technical players are not averse to making g long direct passes when the conditions warrant.
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You can have both for sure. Who doesn't want great Barcelona style passing? You can also have Bayern Munich Style run and gun too though. We have a hodge podge of soccer styles in America. I just want to see this 2011 girl's team with possession skills that are not disappointing against an aggressive powerhouse like the Blues? Which team is this? Who did not disappoint? As someone said earlier, both of these teams have great possession and passing skills when they are playing less aggressive teams.
 
Stoichkov said:
There are tournaments/games where the coach can play around with the lineup and “develop players”. There are times where you need to play to win and advance out of group, semi or final. It’s a little naive to think a coach should try to develop in a semi/final game. Development kicks in at practice with the right coach that’s pushing the best out of your kid. That should translate onto the games. When top teams at this age group like Blues, Slammers and Legends play eachother it will not be pretty because they offset eachother. The thing that blows my mind is when a top team tries to score straight from kick off lol I guess everyone has strategies.
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That is a ridiculous strategy. Start knocking the ball around and getting into a rhythm.

If you are going to do that at least have a player play the ball back to the girl with the big leg so that she can transfer that ball energy into her big kickoff/shot.
 
HBFC11 said:
That is a ridiculous strategy. Start knocking the ball around and getting into a rhythm.

If you are going to do that at least have a player play the ball back to the girl with the big leg so that she can transfer that ball energy into her big kickoff/shot.
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So the kickoff is a tap back to the big kicker. The ball bounced right in front of the goalie, so while, yes, it sounds ridiculous, it can catch a goalie and/or team off guard. The ball was well placed and bounced in a dangerous area.

My point is that some of the these girls are getting too big for these fields and can shoot from the midline. It's ridiculous until it scores and I'm sure there are deflections, bobbles, or teams with weak build outs that make it worth while. Who knows? I'm curious how many goals or opportunities it has created. It may be intimidating too?? Any ball landing in the goal box can be dangerous.

Some girls/teams may be very relaxed at the kick off. You should not be relaxed at any time against the Blue's Mulligan though. LOL!
 
way up said:
You can have both for sure. Who doesn't want great Barcelona style passing? You can also have Bayern Munich Style run and gun too though. We have a hodge podge of soccer styles in America. I just want to see this 2011 girl's team with possession skills that are not disappointing against an aggressive powerhouse like the Blues? Which team is this? Who did not disappoint? As someone said earlier, both of these teams have great possession and passing skills when they are playing less aggressive teams.
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I sure hope there are 2011 girls teams that play possession style that could challenge the Blues. I think the 9v9 aspect and the larger field, will level things out. Not one player is faster than the ball. Once a possession based team has time to receive and make an accurate pass, executing "rondos" we will be seeing a change in who are the top teams.

For anyone who missed it the winning goal for the Surf final was a ball received at mid field, by a forward who was not challenged until she was in the final 3rd. It was a great top shelf, left footed shot just out of the reach of the goalie. Just a slight breakdown by the midfielders, gave that sure footed forward all she needed.
 
Bimmerdep said:
I sure hope there are 2011 girls teams that play possession style that could challenge the Blues. I think the 9v9 aspect and the larger field, will level things out. Not one player is faster than the ball. Once a possession based team has time to receive and make an accurate pass, executing "rondos" we will be seeing a change in who are the top teams.

For anyone who missed it the winning goal for the Surf final was a ball received at mid field, by a forward who was not challenged until she was in the final 3rd. It was a great top shelf, left footed shot just out of the reach of the goalie. Just a slight breakdown by the midfielders, gave that sure footed forward all she needed.
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That’s false information bro. She scored by a free kick that was caused by a handball. Our player did what she had to do to jump and chest the ball but unfortunately it hit her arm. Part of the game… it’s all about developing and trusting our coach and believe me, none of our parents were upset. Extremely proud of our girls because at the end of the day we do care about developing. The last time we faced blues at Coachella they gave us a nice 0-3 score to take the final. Coach took notes and made some changes in which I think have been working on our advantage.
 
Bimmerdep said:
I sure hope there are 2011 girls teams that play possession style that could challenge the Blues. I think the 9v9 aspect and the larger field, will level things out. Not one player is faster than the ball. Once a possession based team has time to receive and make an accurate pass, executing "rondos" we will be seeing a change in who are the top teams.

For anyone who missed it the winning goal for the Surf final was a ball received at mid field, by a forward who was not challenged until she was in the final 3rd. It was a great top shelf, left footed shot just out of the reach of the goalie. Just a slight breakdown by the midfielders, gave that sure footed forward all she needed.
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The final goal of the Blues Mulligan vs Slammers HB was a free kick wide of the goal box from an unintentional hand ball. Not saying it wasn't a handball, but saying the girl left her arms up and they inadvertently touched the ball. It was a great shot caught by the goalie with her tips, but then bobbled and bounced in under pressure by a Blue's Girl in the box.

I've seen 1 or 2 2010 teams that had great passing and possession skills. The 2010 Albion Girls moved the ball really well against The 2011 HB Slammers. That was "pretty", but they only beat The Slammers 3 to 0 with their clinic. They didn't make the finals either. I think Ole beat Leon 1 to 0 or something. I wish I could have seen that game! Again, easier to look "pretty" and win against a weaker team.

The Blues, Slammers, and other Southern Ca. Club Teams have great winning rankings, so the development comes in time. They are still building their touch and coordination at this age. That will all come in time.
 
PossessionSoccer said:
I get the feeling most people would rather win 2-0 on 2 own goals and play terrible vs playing great soccer and losing 0-2.
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Incorrect! If you can hold the Blues to 0 goals, no 2011 girl's team played terrible. Your definition of terrible may be different than others. These girls are 10 and developing constantly. Winning games in a tournament gets you more games. More games equals more playing time. More playing time is more touches. More games against the most physical, athletic teams equals more development for instinctive soccer under pressure. Faster instincts and coordination are skills these girls can use to learn and develop possession play against weaker teams.

I object to limiting development to only playing one style all the time no matter the results. I want my daughter to develop physically, athletically, instinctively, and with technical skills to pass one touch, two touch, short, long, high, low, etc. Winning and gaining physical, long game skills can only add to possession skills they will all learn as they develop more coordination, instinct, field knowledge, and other team mates with the same skills.
 
PossessionSoccer said:
I get the feeling most people would rather win 2-0 on 2 own goals and play terrible vs playing great soccer and losing 0-2.
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I'm starting to feel like "we play possession soccer" is an excuse for losing. Which clubs play pretty soccer against strong defensive teams in a crowded 9v9 field? If you aren't possessing much of the soccer ball and can't connect passes due to pressure, are you really playing posssession soccer? Or is just the act of trying to pass possession style soccer now?
 
way up said:
Incorrect! If you can hold the Blues to 0 goals, no 2011 girl's team played terrible. Your definition of terrible may be different than others. These girls are 10 and developing constantly. Winning games in a tournament gets you more games. More games equals more playing time. More playing time is more touches. More games against the most physical, athletic teams equals more development for instinctive soccer under pressure. Faster instincts and coordination are skills these girls can use to learn and develop possession play against weaker teams.

I object to limiting development to only playing one style all the time no matter the results. I want my daughter to develop physically, athletically, instinctively, and with technical skills to pass one touch, two touch, short, long, high, low, etc. Winning and gaining physical, long game skills can only add to possession skills they will all learn as they develop more coordination, instinct, field knowledge, and other team mates with the same skills.
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It would be cool if they came up with a game that revolved around passing as the objective. Futsal does not count imo. I mean a sport with a soccer ball on a field with cleats where passing is a necessary component and gains teams more games and wins. Every 10 uninterrupted passes to the goal equals a goal? Teams use drills like this to train, but we have soccer tournaments where you use these skills with the main objective of putting the ball in the net. Maybe a sport like this would help American Soccer? Again, not futsal!

Also, one more thing we are forgetting here. My #1 objective with club soccer is my daughter's love for the game. Every girl plays how she enjoys the game and should find a team with that style/chemistry in mind. Otherwise, what's the point?
 
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