Southwest Changes?

tjinaz said:
Yea... have you checked the number of teams in Texas? Its a tiny fraction of the total teams. NPL other than Cali is tiny. I wouldn't really call it a train.. more like a golf cart. If you check the NPL teams in Texas it immediately redirects you to the ECRL schedule. So no real NPL just ECRL There. North Texas has about 10 teams per age group. Very long way to go before this becomes a actual platform and many bumps along the way.

usclubsoccer.org

NPL Member Leagues

Take a look at our NPL Member Leagues across the country.
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I think you may be missing the forest for the trees. It's not primarily about expanding the NPL name, and having teams convert over to join the NPL league from somewhere else. It's instead about normalizing ECNL-RL as the gateway from "mass-market" club soccer to ECNL. It's why the name of the top level NPL just was re-branded ECNL-RL. It's why you're seeing what you're seeing on the Texas site. If it becomes a primary pathway for clubs/teams to enter ECNL - it not only builds on itself, but it is a key part of that pyramid strategy listed by others here.
 
Carlsbad7 said:
Agree on the steps you've defined. However i believe GA and ECNL are interchangeable.

Will NWSL choose to go against US Soccer and partner with ECNL to make NWSL Next happen? Or, will NWSL copy everything MLS has done with US Soccer and MLS Next when creating NWSL Next?

Add in that ECNL hasn't been playing nice with MLSN clubs lately and it seems like one direction is clear.

NWSL Next + GA + US Soccer aligns all the big groups and copies MLSN. Also this setup gives NWSL 90% control of NWSLN. (10% being US Soccer)

NWSL Next + ECNL means NWSL and ECNL would have 50/50 control of NWSLN and you'd have US Soccer in the background pissed about NWSL choosing ECNL causing problems.

But who knows maybe NWSLN will be completely independent of leagues and just provided to top clubs regardless of which league they play in. Although this would be a scheduling nightmare.
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My opinion - I think your statement that GA and ECNL are interchangeable is very optimistic. For example, 2011's have 2 GA's in the top 10. The 10's have 1, the 09's have 1, the 08's have 1, and the 07's have -0- and the '05/'06's have 1. That is using Soccer Rankings which is in my experience the only ranking service worth its salt. Not saying to put down GA but in terms of numbers, it has a way to go.

I am very happy that the '11 Surf gets to play the two best GA teams in San Diego in the Club America tournament (City and SDSC). There just aren't many opportunities anymore due to top clubs not really motivated to enter tournaments let alone play them to win. This is due to ECNL league being the all important criteria for the national championships and therefore playing time is about winning. A policy in Surf (I don't totally agree with) is to go the opposite extreme and see tournaments as mostly giving non starters playing time which doesn't allow for good comparisons with teams played in the tournament. I just guess perhaps we have gone a little far in this "it's not about winning" approach. We need balance.

All in all, I am cheering for GA. Competition is what sport is all about and it rewards excellence and punishes complacency.
 
Surfer_dad said:
My opinion - I think your statement that GA and ECNL are interchangeable is very optimistic. For example, 2011's have 2 GA's in the top 10. The 10's have 1, the 09's have 1, the 08's have 1, and the 07's have -0- and the '05/'06's have 1. That is using Soccer Rankings which is in my experience the only ranking service worth its salt. Not saying to put down GA but in terms of numbers, it has a way to go.

I am very happy that the '11 Surf gets to play the two best GA teams in San Diego in the Club America tournament (City and SDSC). There just aren't many opportunities anymore due to top clubs not really motivated to enter tournaments let alone play them to win. This is due to ECNL league being the all important criteria for the national championships and therefore playing time is about winning. A policy in Surf (I don't totally agree with) is to go the opposite extreme and see tournaments as mostly giving non starters playing time which doesn't allow for good comparisons with teams played in the tournament. I just guess perhaps we have gone a little far in this "it's not about winning" approach. We need balance.

All in all, I am cheering for GA. Competition is what sport is all about and it rewards excellence and punishes complacency.
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I'm looking at NWSLN and GA or ECNL from a business perspective only.

Free development sells itself.

Wherever NWSL lands, the associated youth league will be a winner.
 
RandomSoccerFan said:
I think you may be missing the forest for the trees. It's not primarily about expanding the NPL name, and having teams convert over to join the NPL league from somewhere else. It's instead about normalizing ECNL-RL as the gateway from "mass-market" club soccer to ECNL. It's why the name of the top level NPL just was re-branded ECNL-RL. It's why you're seeing what you're seeing on the Texas site. If it becomes a primary pathway for clubs/teams to enter ECNL - it not only builds on itself, but it is a key part of that pyramid strategy listed by others here.
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Oh i agree that is the intent but most states/metro areas have one league for all the non letter leagues. NPL comes in and tries to establish a foothold, splitting off clubs from the existing leagues. Problem is there aren't enough non letter league teams to make it viable. NPL > ECRL > ECNL. Its a closed system all run by US Club Soccer. I get it.. US Club soccer in total control. The thing is they have to establish NPL as the lowest league to make that path work. Not many areas have enough teams to do that. That is what happened in AZ. NPL came in backed by all the ECNL clubs and split. Took over half the teams in the metro phoenix area. But it wasn't enough. Plus it really pissed off the local soccer community. Not sure if ECNL kicking both PHX Rising and RSL out of Boys ECNL had anything to do with it (timing is suspect) but the NPL league as well as SAAZ is folding. NPL lasted a year. PHX is the 5th largest city in the country if we don't have enough teams who will?

Are you saying ECNL is just going to start awarding ECRL to a bunch of clubs without NPL in the area? Not sure that works either. It might but they better get busy. For 2024-25 there are 5 new DPL teams in Metro Phoenix this year running from 2011s to 2007s So DPL just gained 25 teams adding to the existing 6. So 41 total. in AZ ECRL girls still at 15. EA awarded 2 to other clubs for a total of 8 EA clubs. ECNL is missing the boat.
 
tjinaz said:
Oh i agree that is the intent but most states/metro areas have one league for all the non letter leagues. NPL comes in and tries to establish a foothold, splitting off clubs from the existing leagues. Problem is there aren't enough non letter league teams to make it viable. NPL > ECRL > ECNL. Its a closed system all run by US Club Soccer. I get it.. US Club soccer in total control. The thing is they have to establish NPL as the lowest league to make that path work. Not many areas have enough teams to do that. That is what happened in AZ. NPL came in backed by all the ECNL clubs and split. Took over half the teams in the metro phoenix area. But it wasn't enough. Plus it really pissed off the local soccer community. Not sure if ECNL kicking both PHX Rising and RSL out of Boys ECNL had anything to do with it (timing is suspect) but the NPL league as well as SAAZ is folding. NPL lasted a year. PHX is the 5th largest city in the country if we don't have enough teams who will?

Are you saying ECNL is just going to start awarding ECRL to a bunch of clubs without NPL in the area? Not sure that works either. It might but they better get busy. For 2024-25 there are 5 new DPL teams in Metro Phoenix this year running from 2011s to 2007s So DPL just gained 25 teams adding to the existing 6. So 41 total. in AZ ECRL girls still at 15. EA awarded 2 to other clubs for a total of 8 EA clubs. ECNL is missing the boat.
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To clarify DPL team (club) 2011 to 2007 is 5 age groups so 5 teams per club. DPL picked up 5 clubs so (5 age groups - 5 teams per club) 25 teams. We already had 6 existing (6 * 5 =30) so total is 55 DPL teams not 41. Only 3 clubs have ECRL and only girls so 5 *3 is 15 teams.

Why I say ECNL pissing off the big clubs by kicking them is a bad move nearly all the new DPL teams are from RSL and Rising or affiliated.
 
No, I don't think it's likely that they are able to establish NPL, then ECNL-RL, and make them both a new pathway into the letter leagues from whatever is already existing. I think that it's clear that the intent is to make ECNL-RL the target for the non-letter leagues to see as the next step upwards, on the path for teams and clubs to enter ECNL at some point if that's the goal for them (which if they want to both grow more talent and make more money, is likely a goal for many). If NPL is in good shape, make the top end of it ECNL-RL, and promote/relegate between the two. If NPL doesn't exist or is weak, promote ECNL-RL and make it easier for strong teams to join, not just complete clubs. In some places with a ton of available kids - make a second ECNL-RL league below the first, and promote from non letter leagues to that second league; from that second league to ECNL-RL, and see how that works.

PHX may be huge from a census standpoint, but AZ as a whole has less than 20 full girls clubs, and only ~30 boys clubs. By any measure that's a reasonable amount of kids - but it is still just a rounding error compared to the amount of clubs in CA, TX, or FL. If I weren't in one of those 3 states, I'd be looking at them now to see what's likely to be coming down the pike in the not so distant future for how youth soccer is organized.
 
tjinaz said:
Yea... have you checked the number of teams in Texas? Its a tiny fraction of the total teams. NPL other than Cali is tiny. I wouldn't really call it a train.. more like a golf cart. If you check the NPL teams in Texas it immediately redirects you to the ECRL schedule. So no real NPL just ECRL There. North Texas has about 10 teams per age group. Very long way to go before this becomes a actual platform and many bumps along the way.

usclubsoccer.org

NPL Member Leagues

Take a look at our NPL Member Leagues across the country.
usclubsoccer.org usclubsoccer.org
Click to expand...
I was talking about the promotion/relegation system from the local league into ECRL, then providing an opportunity to the top of the pyramid (ECNL), under a single governing body. NPL isn't a "just sign up" status in itself. You have to actually get promoted into NPL through league performance as well. Not sure why the GA guys are always worried about quantity over quality.
 
Code said:
I was talking about the promotion/relegation system from the local league into ECRL, then providing an opportunity to the top of the pyramid (ECNL), under a single governing body. NPL isn't a "just sign up" status in itself. You have to actually get promoted into NPL through league performance as well. Not sure why the GA guys are always worried about quantity over quality.
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Well here ... NPL was a just sign up. Imagine anywhere it doesn't already exist it will be that way as well. I don't imagine anywhere NPL tries to start they can say . "well we are an elite league, you are going to have to justify to me why i should let you in my league..." That conversation ends one way for prospective clubs.
 
ECRL 2 will fail due to the following reasons: 1. Cost is beginning to impact parents. 2. RL2 = reserve team of the reserve team. You are better off being in e64 or DA. 3. Not enough kids in the funnel playing soccer at the older age groups.

It’s a joke that ECNL is trying to do do this. They will fail due to their own greed. $3,700 to $4,000 to be the backup to the reserve team is a joke.
 
SoccerFan4Life said:
ECRL 2 will fail due to the following reasons: 1. Cost is beginning to impact parents. 2. RL2 = reserve team of the reserve team. You are better off being in e64 or DA. 3. Not enough kids in the funnel playing soccer at the older age groups.

It’s a joke that ECNL is trying to do do this. They will fail due to their own greed. $3,700 to $4,000 to be the backup to the reserve team is a joke.
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I disagree that E64 is worth anything. I’d rather play NPL than E64. Now that RL2 is out, all the top clubs with top E64 teams are redirecting them to RL2. It makes more sense as they now can all be under US Club and not have to split with USYSA for carding. The cost for E64 is about the same for RL2. With RL2 there’ll be showcases that isn’t provided by E64, not to mention there’s already a lack of any college presence with E64 at any events including playoffs.

I think moving from NPL to RL2 is the better pathway in the long run creating a more distinct tiered system. I prefer the consolidation and this will allow for SoCal the rest of the local leagues to get back to basics of being local leagues and not competing for national showcases that don’t draw enough attention.
 
Where is the idea of promotion and relegation coming from?

To my knowledge, there are currently only two states with RL “2” teams: TX and NC. Both seem to have been established for the 22-23 season.

When looking at TX, I don’t see any 23-24 RL teams that were NTX RL or USC TX RL teams in 22-23. For reference, I only looked at 2010 teams.

NC does it differently, as all three clubs with RL2 teams play in the same league as their RL teams. Still, I don’t see any RL2 teams in 23-24 that were not also RL3 teams in 22-23.
 
TeamDadJokes said:
I disagree that E64 is worth anything. I’d rather play NPL than E64. Now that RL2 is out, all the top clubs with top E64 teams are redirecting them to RL2. It makes more sense as they now can all be under US Club and not have to split with USYSA for carding. The cost for E64 is about the same for RL2. With RL2 there’ll be showcases that isn’t provided by E64, not to mention there’s already a lack of any college presence with E64 at any events including playoffs.

I think moving from NPL to RL2 is the better pathway in the long run creating a more distinct tiered system. I prefer the consolidation and this will allow for SoCal the rest of the local leagues to get back to basics of being local leagues and not competing for national showcases that don’t draw enough attention.
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I agree completely on the point above on ECRL2 as well as @TeamDadJokes point on E64. South Valley has already gone to GA, from what I hear at Legends is moving their team to RL2 …….though I haven’t heard I can imagine CDA slammers is probably doing the same seeing the writing on the wall. Not much competition left in 64 then And single teams in Arizona and Nevada. Not much on incentive on top of Team dad‘s other points.

I still think between NPL, RL 2, E64, NPL might have the best competition. I’m sure the Blues are sending one of their NPL teams to RL2 next season, but still very strong teams with TFA, fury, the other Blues team, etc.
 
TeamDadJokes said:
I disagree that E64 is worth anything. I’d rather play NPL than E64. Now that RL2 is out, all the top clubs with top E64 teams are redirecting them to RL2. It makes more sense as they now can all be under US Club and not have to split with USYSA for carding. The cost for E64 is about the same for RL2. With RL2 there’ll be showcases that isn’t provided by E64, not to mention there’s already a lack of any college presence with E64 at any events including playoffs.

I think moving from NPL to RL2 is the better pathway in the long run creating a more distinct tiered system. I prefer the consolidation and this will allow for SoCal the rest of the local leagues to get back to basics of being local leagues and not competing for national showcases that don’t draw enough attention.
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That's probably all true, but there was an announcement that Blues and Sporting were choosing E64 over RL2. Maybe they will roll that back?. It seems like yet another dilution of competition at that 3rd level. That's what US Club wants though because it's good business for them. NPL was hurt when the top teams tried E64, now it's hurt again with stronger clubs going RL2, leaving the strong independent teams in even worse shape for competition. They just keep choking off the independent clubs

None of them will attract much of a college presence though.
 
chipmonk said:
That's probably all true, but there was an announcement that Blues and Sporting were choosing E64 over RL2. Maybe they will roll that back?. It seems like yet another dilution of competition at that 3rd level. That's what US Club wants though because it's good business for them. NPL was hurt when the top teams tried E64, now it's hurt again with stronger clubs going RL2, leaving the strong independent teams in even worse shape for competition. They just keep choking off the independent clubs

None of them will attract much of a college presence though.
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I’m pretty sure Blues has RL2. They also merged with strikers north so I’m not sure what is going to happen with that E64 team but I heard the 2010s coach took his E64 to Man U in walnut. They being said, I can’t speak of the other age groups but it’s possible Blues taking E64 was to accommodate the Strikers North teams playing in E64.

For sporting, they have a hard time getting enough players to come to RL and NL (at least from the 2010s) that it makes sense for them to have E64 where they can parse it out to one of its other branches (eg South, Redlands or VC).

Both clubs mentioned though anecdotally are in rough shape with rumors that blues is having financial trouble which influenced its merger with Strikers. Sporting has a hard time keeping players out of their Ontario / Mt Sac hub for the olders. Now that the sporting director left a mess before leaving to blues I’m worried about what fate blues will suffer.
 
TeamDadJokes said:
Both clubs mentioned though anecdotally are in rough shape with rumors that blues is having financial trouble which influenced its merger with Strikers. Sporting has a hard time keeping players out of their Ontario / Mt Sac hub for the olders. Now that the sporting director left a mess before leaving to blues I’m worried about what fate blues will suffer.
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I was surprised to see Blues hire DB, not sure what he brings that they don't already have on staff. Rumors of their financial troubles have been around for years, but it looks like they have (are) taken steps to build out their base of teams over the past several years. Likewise, Sporting have been a mess for as long as I can remember.
 
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