Soccer gave away the golden goose to other sports at high school

[crush]

Almost every ecnl girl we know plays for their high school (O.C.). Your view may be skewed by your club's strongarm policy?

Strongarm tactics and lies on top of fraud and Docs looking for some action from the ladies. "HSS is awful" some say and if you dare leave the firm ((the country club)) and play HSS, you will never be allowed to play for the YNT because you will become awful. Plus, if you leave now and talk shit about our strongarm policies, on the fucking forum, we will make sure your kid will be blacklisted. Some things never change. Lot's of money and power at stake with little ole soccer. I had no idea how powerful this sport is and it means way more to those who can pay for what they want for themselves and their children.

 

[Grace T.]

HS and college sports are what the player, teams, coaches, make of it.

Some schools and programs have good turnouts others not so much. HS can have more attendance and better fields vs some colleges depending on which division and university.

Local scouts regularly show up at the post season for the CIF playoffs, there where plenty of college coaches around, some academy, some forgien. Every year by kids played there where scouts, our youngest talked to 3 different ones at one of his 2nd round game this year for example.

Soccer is the USA is still way behind football, basketball and baseball/softball and likely will never catch those three from a financial standpoint.

For the causal observer soccer is a boring sport to watch like golf. Just not enough action or scoring to get people excited much. HS, College, MLS can be hard to watch if you're a soccer purist. When there is something to play for like in the post season some excite me can be brought but for regular season games yeah not so much.

Every players journey is different some think the letter leagues help them get noticed more while others play locally for their HS or fringe leagues like UPSL and they can be recuited from those as well so it's no one sized fits all. The galaxy academy put together a u19 showcase team for the NEXT event in Norco that was made up of mostly UPSL players and they went undefeated and didn't give up a goal.

 

[GT45]

Sports are educational though. Teamwork, commitment, work ethic are some of the most important qualities in life. I heard an employer say one day that her soccer player employees are some of her best ones because they understand being part of a group and being on time, etc.

 

[Socal-Soccer-Dad]

Soccer is the USA is still way behind football, basketball and baseball/softball and likely will never catch those three from a financial standpoint.

I think in my life time soccer in US will eclipse baseball... May not be in 5 years or 10 years... but (knock on wood) if I live another 40-50 years, I can see it happen. Lot of data showing how younger generation likes soccer and not so much baseball...

For the causal observer soccer is a boring sport to watch like golf. Just not enough action or scoring to get people excited much. HS, College, MLS can be hard to watch if you're a soccer purist.

I feel attacked! Golf is fun to watch! Bet a few long shots and seeing them in contention on Sunday is pretty darn fun...
Agree about HS and college soccer though - hard to watch. MLS depends on game/team I would think...

 

[lafalafa]

I think in my life time soccer in US will eclipse baseball... May not be in 5 years or 10 years... but (knock on wood) if I live another 40-50 years, I can see it happen. Lot of data showing how younger generation likes soccer and not so much baseball...



I feel attacked! Golf is fun to watch! Bet a few long shots and seeing them in contention on Sunday is pretty darn fun...
Agree about HS and college soccer though - hard to watch. MLS depends on game/team I would think...

Well gambling can make any event more interesting for adults. Sports betting is huge with football and other sports not so much for soccer.

$4billion + per team compared to half a billion says there is very little chance for soccer in USA to catch up financially. When you draw almost 4 million fans a year, going to almost impossible compare to 350,000 the galaxy draw (17 x 20k). TV revenue no comparison also. Don't see it happening in your lifetime and there are other sports that are catching on like MMA and moto sports.

How much are L.A. sports teams worth? More than $20 billion - California News Times

The· Dodgers And Lakers Last year I won the championship. For the owners of these teams, victory goes beyond trophy and diamond-studded rings. The Dodgers and Lakers are the two most Highly acclaimed sports franchise In the world, according to Forbes estimates released on Friday. The Dallas...

californianewstimes.com

 

[lafalafa]

Yup if you asked every adult on our block if they ever been to a paid professional soccer game their answers would be likely no for a high majority.

Dodgers or Lakers the answer would be close to yes 100%. Same with watching those on TV, with some saying yes for soccer but only during special events like the world cup.

 

[Carlsbad7]

Well gambling can make any event more interesting for adults. Sports betting is huge with football and other sports not so much for soccer.

$4billion + per team compared to half a billion says there is very little chance for soccer in USA to catch up financially. When you draw almost 4 million fans a year, going to almost impossible compare to 350,000 the galaxy draw (17 x 20k). TV revenue no comparison also. Don't see it happening in your lifetime and there are other sports that are catching on like MMA and moto sports.

How much are L.A. sports teams worth? More than $20 billion - California News Times

The· Dodgers And Lakers Last year I won the championship. For the owners of these teams, victory goes beyond trophy and diamond-studded rings. The Dodgers and Lakers are the two most Highly acclaimed sports franchise In the world, according to Forbes estimates released on Friday. The Dallas...

californianewstimes.com

Umm.. Betting on Premier League is awesome.

 

[lafalafa]

Umm.. Betting on Premier League is the awesome.

Yeah and other leagues also, not so much domesticly like the conversation was referring to.

 

[lafalafa]

I don't understand why sports teams belong in (public) High School at all. Soccer, for example, requires outsized field space, coaching fees, travel expenses, buses, uniforms and insurance expenses that could be better applied to a science or engineering curriculum. You could use that gigantic field space for real labs, and maybe pay actual teachers with a math and science degrees, instead of some guy who is going to show up and just run kids through a bunch of Coerver drills. Public schools should be used to educate, and nothing more. If you want to have your kid play on a school soccer team, then put him in a private school and pay the extra freight. But the public ought not be paying taxes just so somebody else's snot-nosed little kid can play on a school athletics team.

Sports are educational. Just like the science lab or wood shop. Should we pay to teach somebody how to make a wood box or fizzle some mentos?

You might not be happy to know some public colleges subsidize athletes in a variety of ways including paying for travel, lodging, meals, and gear. Some HS do this also to a more limited extent.

 

[graciesdad]

This thread has jumped the shark.

 

[dk_b]

I don't understand why sports teams belong in (public) High School at all. Soccer, for example, requires outsized field space, coaching fees, travel expenses, buses, uniforms and insurance expenses that could be better applied to a science or engineering curriculum. You could use that gigantic field space for real labs, and maybe pay actual teachers with a math and science degrees, instead of some guy who is going to show up and just run kids through a bunch of Coerver drills. Public schools should be used to educate, and nothing more. If you want to have your kid play on a school soccer team, then put him in a private school and pay the extra freight. But the public ought not be paying taxes just so somebody else's snot-nosed little kid can play on a school athletics team.

Screw those poor kids who want to play sports for their school and can't afford playing for a club, right? And while we are at it, that jazz band program or chorus or theatre . . . screw them, too!

I've written about my kids' public school. It's a large urban school in a Northern California city. It is underfunded like many and the sports program - one of the largest in the state based on # of sports (though other schools have much better participation rates) - is run on a shoestring (though the facilities are definitely on state/municipal property - on campus or at a shared-use municipal park). It also has one of the best jazz programs in the country and 3 of my 4 kids have taken photography and used the darkroom built adjacent to their classroom (but what a waste, right? I mean, what's the likelihood that they are going to use film in any profession?!). It has on campus labs to serve over 3,000 students. Etc. There are some (not many, given the size of the school) student-athletes who play (currently and have played and will play) college and professional sports. But the athletics program does not serve the elite player who does play club sports (soccer, hoops, travel baseball/softball, volleyball, water polo, etc.). It serve the hundreds and hundreds who won't play beyond HS but who like sports, like playing sports and like representing the school. The elite athletes who play among them have a great time, too, for the many intangibles that I and others have mentioned in this thread and others. The kid who is going to play water polo at Stanford and plays for our youth national team does not play it to "get seen", the kid played every minute of every NCAA soccer tournament game (through the finals of the College Cup) did not play to improve his game, the kid who ended up playing at the local college and in the WNBA played because this was her community. I could go on. Even my older daughter - she's had success at the club level and is having success at the college level - has ZERO regrets playing HS, just like nearly every club teammate of hers who played HS soccer prior to starting their D1 college careers (also like those competitors whom they'd routinely face in the ECNL Playoffs).

I understand that we may not share the same view of what the goals of a high school education should be but I firmly believe that our kids should have the opportunity to expand as young people/emerging adults, not just in the classroom but in the types of programs offered by or through the school. Sports, like the arts, are an essential part of that. Should my tax dollars go to that? Hell, yes, it should. My kids have zero musical talent but when I see the jazz band on an east coast tour, I am psyched for them and psyched for the school.

 

[crush]

You are equating sports and "science lab?" That just tells me that you don't know the difference between the two. And no, I don't think wood shop belongs in school either. And yes, I know that public colleges subsidize athletes, which is part of the reason why taxes are high and why tuition costs so much.

Schools should be about education; not sports. You want your kid to play sports? Fine. But pay for it yourself. Don't ask the public to pay for it.

What about the kids that hate school and only go because of sports?

 

[lafalafa]

You are equating sports and "science lab?" That just tells me that you don't know the difference between the two. And no, I don't think wood shop belongs in school either. And yes, I know that public colleges subsidize athletes, which is part of the reason why taxes are high and why tuition costs so much.

Schools should be about education; not sports. You want your kid to play sports? Fine. But pay for it yourself. Don't ask the public to pay for it.

No you're equating sports to something it's not.

Just like the arts, science, or others, Physical Education is a subject that is taught in high school and college. You may not like the subject but nobody is getting ride of them in public schools because normal people see the value in them helping us educate our future leaders.

Almost all public HS teachers of sports also teach other subjects, math, history, science, etc. Some of students they teach will go on to becoming teachers themselves, coaches, physical therapist, sports medicine professionals, athletic trainers, etc.

...

 

[Grace T.]

Yes, cut the jazz band, chorus and theatre programs. These aren't about education, and we should not have to pay for your kid's singing program. As far as your kids' school being underfunded, well, maybe the thing to do is to cut the incredibly large sports program. Then maybe you can hire another couple of English, Math and science teachers. Are you so ignorant that you do not see the disconnect between complaining about your school being underfunded, and then bragging about its enormous sports programs? And as for paying for your kids to be on a jazz band, why on Earth should anybody but you have to do that? Form your own jazz band if you think it is so valuable, and then your kids can bebop to their hearts' content.

That’s not where the money in California has been going. Sports, music and arts have all been cut. The growth has been in admin staff: lawyers (particularly those that handle special needs cases), special needs admins and aides, diversity officers, counselors, public relations officers, learning specialists, nutritional specialists and admins, guards and security, curriculum specialists. Then there’s also the pension responsibilities (but that is a separate but related budget)

the problem with “just pay for it yourself” in California is that it violates the equity requirements. If you want it through the school, you and your buddies can gift a jazz band but you can’t ask each student to pay for their share of jazz band or even buy their own instruments (California has said that discriminated against poor people who are entitled to a full access to education and extracurricular). Do you have rich suburban schools that can gift a football team, girls soccer squad (title ix concerns), jazz band AND art program and an inner city school that can only focus on football/cheer or jazz band or debate team (which is why some of these schools seem really good at one or two things but not much else)

 

[Grace T.]

No you're equating sports to something it's not.

Just like the arts, science, or others, Physical Education is a subject that is taught in high school and college. You may not like the subject but nobody is getting ride of them in public schools because normal people see the value in them helping us educate our future leaders.

Almost all public HS teachers of sports also teach other subjects, math, history, science, etc. Some of students they teach will go on to becoming teachers themselves, coaches, physical therapist, sports medicine professionals, athletic trainers, etc.

...

This is why sports is the easier thing for schools to do. The coach is generally teaching another subject and is funded. They have the field (and even the pools and lights) through the facilities budget. They just have to raise the money for uniforms (often reused), referees and the transport.

an art program is more difficult. It requires a qualified instructor, supplies (for which students cannot be charged) and lab room. Pe is also more difficult in the elementary school ages as a result (because the teachers are gen younger child qualified instead of specific subjects and there are fewer of them)…hence private schools have sports for middle and elementary but public schools generally don’t.

 

[crush]

No you're equating sports to something it's not.

Just like the arts, science, or others, Physical Education is a subject that is taught in high school and college. You may not like the subject but nobody is getting ride of them in public schools because normal people see the value in them helping us educate our future leaders.

Almost all public HS teachers of sports also teach other subjects, math, history, science, etc. Some of students they teach will go on to becoming teachers themselves, coaches, physical therapist, sports medicine professionals, athletic trainers, etc.

...

I was a PE major right when the name was switched to Kinesiology. It sounds way better then PE teacher. I remember when I dated a girl from UCLA and her old man was an attorney. He asked me what I was going to do with my life in a round about way and I told him I was going to teach PE. He laughed at me in a very arrogant way and said their is no money in that. I told the wise guy money isn't everything and he said, "yes it is." I bailed on the PE degree after I did some observation at the local high schools. First off, most of the teachers did not like PE teacher. Jealousy 100%. I saw the rift and felt in my gut that PE would be the first to go and the first to be made fun of by the teachers when cuts are needed. Some teachers hate sports and the kids that play them.

 

[crush]

I agree that P.E. is taught in High School. But it should not be. That does not educate your kids, unless you think that learning the rules of softball constitutes "education." I don't agree that P.E. class breeds our "future leaders." But if it does, then our selection criteria is all wrong. If we want better leaders, then we should probably look to those with better education, and choose those who are great in the subjects of History or Science, or something else that actually requires knowledge and analysis.

Boo!!!!! Look at our kids toucan. I had so many debates with people like you. PE is a joke because you can;t challenge a kid for obesity. Our kids are obese and so are so many adults. Talk about an epidemic. Your attitude is why our kids are way over weight, stuck playing fucking video games in their rooms, forced to wear a mask , and I'm 100% sure are getting taught by pornhub how to treat a girl. We gots lots of problems and starts with health and wellness for our youth.

 

[crush]

I get why you think it is less expensive for math teachers to teach sports. But your logic is flawed. Instead of paying for the pool, lights and sports facilities you speak of, why not just slash the facilities budget, sell off the soccer and football fields, and have the Math teachers assigned to teaching additional math courses? Don't you think that would be a better use of their time and our money?

Please......this is so weak!!! We need healthy kids first and then teach the smart ones not lie to us about math & science. I had the best PE teacher back in middle school. Coach Smart. We had co-ed soccer, softball and I think volleyball. We had playoffs each time and it was big time and you got medals if your team was champ. My team won once. Not everyone can win in PE. The other thing that was really smart that Coach Smart taught was health and fitness. Dude was in great shape and practiced what he preached. I am afraid to say PE is a joke now because of PC folks like you hate it. Why not help the kids eat better, teach health and wellness and then throw in some competition? Your school idea sucks and I would never ever go to school with no PE or sports. You got problems, moo!!!

 

[Grace T.]

I get why you think it is less expensive for math teachers to teach sports. But your logic is flawed. Instead of paying for the pool, lights and sports facilities you speak of, why not just slash the facilities budget, sell off the soccer and football fields, and have the Math teachers assigned to teaching additional math courses? Don't you think that would be a better use of their time and our money?

If we cut all sports from school - as we should - then we don't have to spend all that money on Title 9 lawyers and gender equality concerns. Then we can hire real teachers in real subjects, and actually educate our children. The US currently ranks 38th in the world in math and science, but first in Friday Night Football, Marching Bands and Cheerleading. I think maybe your priorities need revisiting.

Not my priorities…California’s. Those diversity officers, special needs services and lawyers are not dealing with sports issues. And California has already said you can’t do advanced math classes only certain kids participate in: you could do a ton of remedial math classes and force all kids into them.

the biggest issue though at least in this forum is that a lot of parents are supportive of club soccer, little league and basketball.If you sell off the fields, gyms and pools then club and rec sports will have a real hard time finding facilities to play. There aren’t enough parks and rec fields and gyms to make this happen and ayso at least for soccer has first pick usually. Not saying this is a right or wrong result…just the reality. Those pools are very expensive to maintain, operate and insure…if they haven’t paved over them despite all that (while they were tearing out the jungle gyms from elementary schools) they aren’t going to do it now…that’s the low hanging fruit.

 

[crush]

Your point is valid; namely, that sports parents want the public school districts to subsidize their childrens' club teams by building fields, maintaining them, and then letting the private sector use them. But that model is wrong. The public should be required to pay the costs of educating our populace - but not teaching them sports, which is not educational at all. And certainly, the public should not be required to subsidize private sports.

Are you a teacher? Did you play sports? I will hold back my THUNDER and LIGHTNING after I hear from you. You have to share a little background.