Sharks ECNL

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VanMan said:
What lens are you looking at this through? Girls ECNL? Girls ECNL+RL? Boys too? The entire program including SoCal teams? Are we including non-ECNL clubs in the conversation?

I hope you're right, but have my doubts. I remember hearing that this was going to be the case several years ago and it never materialized on a program-wide basis.
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I was specifically speaking about girls ECNL. Two huge differences that have changed since a few years ago...

1. ECNL became my the #1 league replacing DA. A few years ago it was hard for any Non ECNL club to put together a solid team since they had to compete with DA. Back then Surf, Albion, City were the top girls DA clubs. Now it will be Surf, Sharks, rebels.

2. MW is now the new DOC

3. Sharks have proven in the last 6 months they're serious, in some cases completely replacing teams with more competitive players.

4. Scores have improved across the board (07-09) in the second half in ECNL and man city and this is without the new and improved full teams being able to play together yet due to league rules.
 
There's no other ECNL club/options to go to unless you want to go far south to Rebels. Surf can't take everyone. City and Albion has had all top players A) go to surf B) Go to sharks C) Stay but have to play up a year (less common). Sharks is already now have the second best teams in SD and maybe even a few top teams in a few years. It'll be like the old Albion/Surf rivalry back in the day now it'll be Sharks/Surf. Good to have that back in my opinion.
 
jimlewis said:
Girls ECNL, which has been the focus of this conversation. MW brought in to overhaul the program and is off to a very fast start. RL teams and youngers will be a big project, which will definitely take years to overhaul but if the ECNL program starts showing results, the program will have momentum. All depends on execution, and as we all know, the only constant is change so I could be wrong.
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MW seems to have developed a following with his teams, so that's a plus. I guess it remains to be seen if that translates into consistent recruiting success. As you suggest, the lower level programs are also "a big project", so if they don't hit on success quickly, eg before tryouts next year, it could end up being a momentary bump. Execution risk is much higher with a top down/halo approach, leaves more to chance and subject to fewer points of failure.

But, again, I hope they pull it off.
 
Soccergirl said:
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I was specifically speaking about girls ECNL. Two huge differences that have changed since a few years ago...

1. ECNL became my the #1 league replacing DA. A few years ago it was hard for any Non ECNL club to put together a solid team since they had to compete with DA. Back then Surf, Albion, City were the top girls DA clubs. Now it will be Surf, Sharks, rebels.

2. MW is now the new DOC

3. Sharks have proven in the last 6 months they're serious, in some cases completely replacing teams with more competitive players

4. Scores have improved across the board (07-09) in the second half in ECNL and man city and this is without the new and improved full teams being able to play together yet due to league rules.
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1. DA was never the top program on the girls' side. It didn't even exist before 2017.
2. Seems like a solid guy, good coach and great motivator. That being said, see my comment in the reply above.
3. Yeah, it may be a plus in short term results for those particular teams, but this certainly was not well received in the DMCV community. Bear in mind that Sharks are dependent on their rec league for both recruiting at the younger levels and income. They've also marketed themselves as being as the "kinder/gentler" club in the area and this shoots a giant hole in the bottom of that boat. Whether or not completely replacing teams ends up being a net positive or negative for the club writ large or the ECNL girls' program specifically won't be known for at least a year or two.
4. I'm not sure I agree with your premise here. Just looking at the 2021-22 GU15, they've lost 7 of their last 8 in ECNL, including a 6-0 to surf a couple of weeks ago and 8-1 to Heat last weekend. As for new roster adds, I believe the restriction is not adding from other ECNL clubs (as well as some date stuff for playoffs, but that's not an issue here). They can add from non-ECNL clubs as long as the original club approves. That U15 team is showing 29 on the roster, so I'm guessing this may not be an issue.
 
VanMan said:
1. DA was never the top program on the girls' side. It didn't even exist before 2017.
2. Seems like a solid guy, good coach and great motivator. That being said, see my comment in the reply above.
3. Yeah, it may be a plus in short term results for those particular teams, but this certainly was not well received in the DMCV community. Bear in mind that Sharks are dependent on their rec league for both recruiting at the younger levels and income. They've also marketed themselves as being as the "kinder/gentler" club in the area and this shoots a giant hole in the bottom of that boat. Whether or not completely replacing teams ends up being a net positive or negative for the club writ large or the ECNL girls' program specifically won't be known for at least a year or two.
4. I'm not sure I agree with your premise here. Just looking at the 2021-22 GU15, they've lost 7 of their last 8 in ECNL, including a 6-0 to surf a couple of weeks ago and 8-1 to Heat last weekend. As for new roster adds, I believe the restriction is not adding from other ECNL clubs (as well as some date stuff for playoffs, but that's not an issue here). They can add from non-ECNL clubs as long as the original club approves. That U15 team is showing 29 on the roster, so I'm guessing this may not be an issue.
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MW has changed the culture already. In order to change the previous culture, he needed to purge the players who weren't good enough or didnt take the game seriously. Of course that will piss people off, but those same people are not who he is trying to attract. In one move, MW gutted Albion. As he builds a serious program at Sharks, he will gut others if he hasn't already. The best players want to play with/against the best. The best girls players play in the ECNL. Sure there are exceptions, but they are few and far between now. Now they will have another viable option in SD, and one that is just as accessible as Surf.

All of this is speculation, and he will need to recruit again next year for the 2011 age group as I'm guessing their team now isn't that great. But the draw that is ECNL now will be attractive to enough top players that they will bring together a team that is competitive. The landscape is conducive to MW having success in changing the course of the Sharks program
 
jimlewis said:
MW has changed the culture already. In order to change the previous culture, he needed to purge the players who weren't good enough or didnt take the game seriously. Of course that will piss people off, but those same people are not who he is trying to attract. In one move, MW gutted Albion. As he builds a serious program at Sharks, he will gut others if he hasn't already. The best players want to play with/against the best. The best girls players play in the ECNL. Sure there are exceptions, but they are few and far between now. Now they will have another viable option in SD, and one that is just as accessible as Surf.
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I'd argue he "built" a couple/few teams, not a program. It's not just the parents/players on the impacted teams, it's the larger community they are a part of and what the impact is there that should have been considered. And it's not just that the replaced teams, it's that the families feel like the kids weren't even considered at tryouts. Certainly, a lot of this is your usual sour grapes, but it was handled poorly and there will be blowback that could have been avoided with more artful communication and handling.

Sharks have been members of ECNL for a few years and I'm not sure that MW provides them any more credibility than winning 2 USYS Nat Championships back to back did a few years back or having SM take over a few years before that. These were also supposed to be transformative and, well, here is a similar conversation happening again. I've seen this show before a few times now so I'm skeptical.

jimlewis said:
All of this is speculation, and he will need to recruit again next year for the 2011 age group as I'm guessing their team now isn't that great. But the draw that is ECNL now will be attractive to enough top players that they will bring together a team that is competitive. The landscape is conducive to MW having success in changing the course of the Sharks program
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Honestly, I think bringing MW was a good move, but one that likely would have been better had the club made concrete moves at the lower level. Had they been able to grab AW at the same time, I think they might have had something... but there would still be larger structural issues to be addressed if they ever truly want to be anything more than a community club.
 
VanMan said:
I'd argue he "built" a couple/few teams, not a program. It's not just the parents/players on the impacted teams, it's the larger community they are a part of and what the impact is there that should have been considered. And it's not just that the replaced teams, it's that the families feel like the kids weren't even considered at tryouts. Certainly, a lot of this is your usual sour grapes, but it was handled poorly and there will be blowback that could have been avoided with more artful communication and handling.

Sharks have been members of ECNL for a few years and I'm not sure that MW provides them any more credibility than winning 2 USYS Nat Championships back to back did a few years back or having SM take over a few years before that. These were also supposed to be transformative and, well, here is a similar conversation happening again. I've seen this show before a few times now so I'm skeptical.



Honestly, I think bringing MW was a good move, but one that likely would have been better had the club made concrete moves at the lower level. Had they been able to grab AW at the same time, I think they might have had something... but there would still be larger structural issues to be addressed if they ever truly want to be anything more than a community club.
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Agree with almost everything you said. Only thing we will argue about is the culture change. ECNL wanted more competitiveness, this is how you do it. People who want a friendly place, can't be competitive. We all know that.

Anyways, MW will make immediate changes where he can, specifically in the age groups he already has. Those are 2007-2010. Will they beat Surf, Blues, Slammers immediately? No, although they have won some big games already. Will they be markedly better than they were, yes. The rest of the club is by far the biggest question mark. If he can gain interest in the club by winning in those 2007-2010 age groups, then he can possibly start to build a youngers program. Thats possibly the biggest if on this forum. He will need to add solid coaches as well. He is doing that. He doesnt have AW, but he can groom solid coaches if not bring them from other programs. Again, thats enormous speculation. As you said, Im hopeful and skeptical at the same time.
 
oh canada said:


Let's not engage in the same puffery as the clubs. Yes, they're going to Seattle, but for Showcase. That's not "playoffs". Only Champions League is the playoffs. Showcase B is the 4th tier (North American Cup is 2nd). They did finish one point in front of Blues :) Best of luck to your daughter.

1 - Surf - Champs League
2 - Slammers Koge - Champs League
3 - Strikers - Champs League
4 - Rebels - Showcase A
5 - Phx Rising - Show B
6 - Sharks - Show B
7 - Blues - n/a
8 - AZ Arsenal - n/a
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The Southwest Conference of ECNL for girls is one of the most competitive conferences in the US.
 
jimlewis said:
Agree with almost everything you said. Only thing we will argue about is the culture change. ECNL wanted more competitiveness, this is how you do it. People who want a friendly place, can't be competitive. We all know that.

Anyways, MW will make immediate changes where he can, specifically in the age groups he already has. Those are 2007-2010. Will they beat Surf, Blues, Slammers immediately? No, although they have won some big games already. Will they be markedly better than they were, yes. The rest of the club is by far the biggest question mark. If he can gain interest in the club by winning in those 2007-2010 age groups, then he can possibly start to build a youngers program. Thats possibly the biggest if on this forum. He will need to add solid coaches as well. He is doing that. He doesnt have AW, but he can groom solid coaches if not bring them from other programs. Again, thats enormous speculation. As you said, Im hopeful and skeptical at the same time.
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For the sake of soccer in the area, I hope it's successful.

Given how much is riding on MW, do you find it odd that after 10 months they still haven't listed him as DOC on the website? Or even posted his bio?
 
VanMan said:
For the sake of soccer in the area, I hope it's successful.

Given how much is riding on MW, do you find it odd that after 10 months they still haven't listed him as DOC on the website? Or even posted his bio?
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Did not notice that. Guessing they are trying to right the ship first, then do the website after. I've heard he's there every day all day and really making a difference so I'm not sure the website is a huge deal. Maybe they will do something after all the dust has settled with this previous season ending...
 
VanMan said:
For the sake of soccer in the area, I hope it's successful.

Given how much is riding on MW, do you find it odd that after 10 months they still haven't listed him as DOC on the website? Or even posted his bio?
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Something to be said about “pull” marketing. I think MW has what it takes and can do good things for Sharks and SD soccer as a whole.
 
This thread is getting silly. There are enough crazy soccer parents in north county san diego to fill two ecnl rosters. MW will help Sharks, but he can't coach every team and his sweet spot is youngers (though some have said his teams' default is kickball). Still, an improved Sharks is good for all. But unless and until they find high quality coaches for the older teams, they will continue to tremendously lag Surf, Rebels, Blues, CityFC, on what really matters - high quality college program placement (not winning a Man City Cup at u12).
 
oh canada said:
This thread is getting silly. There are enough crazy soccer parents in north county san diego to fill two ecnl rosters. MW will help Sharks, but he can't coach every team and his sweet spot is youngers (though some have said his teams' default is kickball). Still, an improved Sharks is good for all. But unless and until they find high quality coaches for the older teams, they will continue to tremendously lag Surf, Rebels, Blues, CityFC, on what really matters - high quality college program placement (not winning a Man City Cup at u12).
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In order to get Sharks through this, MW will have to get 2 more quality coaches that know how to win games too. Kickball is every team's default if they are losing and need to win, but don't have the mids to move the ball forward.
 
Congrats to Albion 06 winning the GA 06 National Championship! I was told by an ECNL coach that their team is basically moving over to 06 DMCV Sharks this upcoming season. Makes sense since MW was the teams coach for many seasons prior to his departure to DMVC. Anybody know if that is accurate?
 
Calikid said:
Congrats to Albion 06 winning the GA 06 National Championship! I was told by an ECNL coach that their team is basically moving over to 06 DMCV Sharks this upcoming season. Makes sense since MW was the teams coach for many seasons prior to his departure to DMVC. Anybody know if that is accurate?
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Their coach and all the players?
 
Calikid said:
Congrats to Albion 06 winning the GA 06 National Championship! I was told by an ECNL coach that their team is basically moving over to 06 DMCV Sharks this upcoming season. Makes sense since MW was the teams coach for many seasons prior to his departure to DMVC. Anybody know if that is accurate?
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That would surprise me. There are some Albion lifers on that team. Then again, I taught myself long ago to never be surprised by anything that happens in youth soccer.
 
Goforgoal said:
That would surprise me. There are some Albion lifers on that team. Then again, I taught myself long ago to never be surprised by anything that happens in youth soccer.
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Yes, that would be surprising because the current team is substantially different than the one MW coached and won the national championship with as youngers a few years ago, with the notable exception of one YNT player, but Iassume she is one of the "Albion lifers" you mentioned. It also seems doubtful the coach is going to go work for MW when she is in charge of GA at Albion. Finally, why would these players and their coach leave now after winning a championship when they didn't go with MW before?
 
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