SCDSL Flights?

Claims that SCDSL is decimated and now a step below DPL and CSL Premier are perhaps a bit premature. The top flight of the West Coast Classic this past weekend featured a mix of ECNL, DPL, Flight 1, Flight 2, CSL Premier and CSL Gold teams, so provided a degree of comparison.

Looking at G02, the four pools were won by 3 SCDSL teams and an ECNL team...

Pool A: won by Flight 1 Europa's Strikers FC - South Bay (BYSC Corona, which was undefeated in CSL Premier last fall, finished last, behind 2 Flight 1 Europa teams and a Flight 2 team)
Pool B: won by ECNL's Strikers FC (CSL Premier' Fullerton Rangers G02 White finished 2nd and looks strong)
Pool C: won by Flight 1 Champions' CDA Slammers FC G02 Troglia (West Coast's ECNL team finished 2nd)
Pool D: won by Flight 2's CDA Slammers FC HG G02 Larsen (Liverpool, which will play in CSL Premier this fall, and IE Surf Premier JS, a CSL gold team, finished 2nd and 3rd respectively)

The Strikers ECNL team and CDA Slammers Troglia made the finals where the Strikers won handily (3-0).

Notable from the G03 bracket:
  • The overall champion was a Flight 1 Champions division team.
  • The Beach DPL team finished 2nd in their pool to a Flight 1 Europa team.
  • The Real So Cal DPL team finished 3rd in their pool (behind a Flight 1 Europa team and a Flight 1 Champions team).
  • So Cal Blues' ECNL team failed to advance out their pool
  • West Coast's ECNL team advanced, but lost to a Flight 1 Champions team 4-1 in the semifinals.
Granted this is a summer tournament, the DPL teams are new, and the ECNL teams for those two DA clubs might be going through changes, but the results hint that the SCDSL might have some talent left at both 02 and 03.

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SocalPapa said:
Pool A: won by Flight 1 Europa's Strikers FC - South Bay (BYSC Corona, which was undefeated in CSL Premier last fall, finished last, behind 2 Flight 1 Europa teams and a Flight 2 team)
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Correction, the team that finished 2nd in Pool A is Flight 1 Europa as well. The other Legends team, which finished last in Pool D, is a Flight 2 team.
 
Is there a way to petition the flight you were placed in? As a team we moved clubs and from CSL to SCDSL and were placed in a flight that would not be competitive. The teams we've been playing in tournaments are all in Champions and Europa and done well but were placed in a flight 2 bracket. Just looking for some direction on whether or not a process exists to petition a change.
 
MA0812 said:
Is there a way to petition the flight you were placed in? As a team we moved clubs and from CSL to SCDSL and were placed in a flight that would not be competitive.....
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There really is something to be said about promotion and relegation system.

Since SCDSL flights are determined by YOUR DOC with the competition committee at the league, it is essentially set by the club. If you were were in Premier at CSL, you're DOC should have placed you into Flight 1. If you were Silver Elite, you'll most likely be placed in Flight 2. Gold teams depends on the record in league play, National Cup, CRL, NPL and so on.

The best place to appeal is with your DOC. Good luck.
 
SocalPapa said:
I've taken a close look at the G2002 Flight 1 bracket. My prediction for Champions division (in alphabetical order):

Arsenal FC 02 ECNL 2 (Champions in 2016)
Beach FC - South Bay G02 Torres (Champions in 2016)
CDA Slammers FC - Cerritos G02 Salazar
CDA Slammers FC - HB G02 Elite (Champions in 2016)
CDA Slammers FC - Whittier Troglia (Champions in 2016)
LA Galaxy South Bay Girls 2002 Elite (Champions in 2016)
Legends FC- West G02 FC
Real So Cal - SCV G2002W Mitrovitch (Champions in 2016)
Slammers FC G02 VT
So Cal Blues 2002 Farrell
Westside Breakers 02 Elite

Also perhaps in the running to make Champions:
Beach FC - Long Beach G02 Soler
CDA Slammers FC-Orange G02 Jimenez
LA Galaxy Orange County G02 Premier Woodcock
Legends FC - East Riverside G02 FC
Pateadores - Irvine G2002
San Diego Surf Academy Girls Select 2002
Strikers FC - OC 2002 ECNL Reserves (semi-finalist in last year's SCDSL playoffs)

It's also interesting to see the changes in the number of G02 Flight 1 teams for the various clubs compared to 2016:

Anaheim Surf +1 (added a Ladera Ranch team that looks like more of a Flight 2 team on paper)
Arsenal -1 (only 1 team now, which is their ECNL reserve team)
Beach FC +1 (Tuttle moved up from Flight 2; Beach now has 4 Flight 1 teams, 3 of which look pretty good)
CDA Slammers +3 (all 6 CDA Slammers teams look strong)
DMCV Sharks 0 (new coach)
Encinitas Express 0
LA Galaxy 0 (2 of the 3 teams look strong)
Legends -1 (top Legends teams are gone, apparently replaced by good, but not as great, teams)
Murrieta Surf 0 (has 1 team that probably needs to add some players to be competitive in Flight 1)
Pateadores +2 (added HB and MV teams, which both look more like Flight 2 teams on paper)
Real So Cal 0
San Diego Surf Academy +1 (they seem to have added a 2003 team, and a very good one at that)
Slammers -1
So Cal Blues -1 (So Cal Blues Holley left - I think to play the California Regional League; we'll see if Farrell can step up)
Soccer Life Academy +1 (team moved up from Flight 2; was in SCNPL this spring)
South Slammers 0
Strikers 0 (the mix of the Strikers teams is different, as are some of the coaches; 3 of their 5 teams look promising, especially their ECNL reserve team)
Temecula Valley 0
West Coast -1 (West Coast has slimmed down a team. I expect their 2 remaining teams will be more competitive this season)
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If you click on the team name, it lists where the team was placed. The Champions bracket is listed as well as the Europa Flight. It's all there on the link on the second page.
 
So help me out here. Not from CA. What is the order of importance of the leagues in CA...or at the least So Cal?

SCDSL is the best?

How do the 2nd and 3rd divisions rate vs the next league down?
 
Desert Hound said:
So help me out here. Not from CA. What is the order of importance of the leagues in CA...or at the least So Cal?

SCDSL is the best?

How do the 2nd and 3rd divisions rate vs the next league down?
Click to expand...
Now you've opened a can of worms. If you are just talking about SCDSL, CSL and Presidio you'll get one answer but if you throw in DA, DPL, CRL, SDDA, ECNL, EGSL it is a mess, as well as age specific, especially for this year of dillution on the girls side. For example I would assume that ECNL will be stronger at the oldest age group because those players are looking for college exposure and want to play high school as opposed to DA on the boys side and at the middle school age for girls.
 
Desert Hound said:
So help me out here. Not from CA. What is the order of importance of the leagues in CA...or at the least So Cal?
SCDSL is the best?
How do the 2nd and 3rd divisions rate vs the next league down?
Click to expand...

CSL and SCDSL are competitive leagues. Each league has its own tiers (CSL = Premier, Gold, Silver Elite, Silver and Bronze and SCDSL = Flight 1 Champions, Flight 1 Europa, Flight 2 and Flight 3). Presidio is generally regarded has the ugly step sister and namely a San Diego County League, but some of its highest level teams in Presidio's SDDA can compete with the highest level teams from CSL and SCDSL. Then you throw the DA, ECNL, DPL, NPL, etc. into the mix which pull from Premier and Flight 1 brackets.

Don't get hung up on leagues, its really the clubs.
 
Monkey said:
Now you've opened a can of worms. If you are just talking about SCDSL, CSL and Presidio you'll get one answer but if you throw in DA, DPL, CRL, SDDA, ECNL, EGSL it is a mess, as well as age specific, especially for this year of dillution on the girls side. For example I would assume that ECNL will be stronger at the oldest age group because those players are looking for college exposure and want to play high school as opposed to DA on the boys side and at the middle school age for girls.
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For the girls, DA, ECNL, CRL. are where the college coaches will be focusing in that order.
 
Desert Hound said:
So help me out here. Not from CA. What is the order of importance of the leagues in CA...or at the least So Cal?

SCDSL is the best?

How do the 2nd and 3rd divisions rate vs the next league down?
Click to expand...

If you look at it from USYSoccer (CalSouth) perspective, its:

NL > CRL > SCDSL/CSL > SDDA > Presidio > independent leagues
You can easily tell/verify by looking at the path to the National Finals via Regionals. NL pool winners go straight to the Finals, CRL winner goes to Regionals and all other leagues have to compete and win in the SoCal National Cup round to advance to Regionals.

If you look at it from USClub Soccer perspective, its:
Boys: ENPL > ECNL Boys/NPL
Girls: ECNL > EGSL > NPL
Both: National Cup (separate from USYSoccer) via Regionals
USClub Soccer has smaller footprint than USYSoccer in SoCal but its different in other parts of the country (even NoCal, where they run their State Cup that feeds into Regionals)

If you look at it from USSDA perspective, there is no hierarchy. Its just Development Academy. So called DPL (Development Players League) is a local thing for girls side only and really created by DA clubs that don't have ECNL.

So if you look at it the national perspective, its clearly USSDA is the top league, as demonstrated by their actions (i.e., 99% of national team players come from DA teams). While ECNL is very popular, within 2~3 yrs, it will definitely be a step below DA, in terms of importance as the best players will migrate to it, just as it happened on the boys side, I'm guessing.

In terms of absolute competitiveness of the teams, its different from age to age and certainly between the boys and the girls. League wise, your bigger clubs that have DA and ECNL tends to be in SCDSL for their lower teams, while smaller clubs with very strong teams tend to be in CSL. There are exceptions but mostly so.

Other than speculating what might happen in the girls DA side, I've left out my personal views on whats better than another. To pick one over the other is like arguing Ford vs Chevy in (old) NASCAR country and there is no right answer.
 
JackZ said:
Solid post @mirage , FAQ worthy! There's a national champion for each as well, right? USYSoccer, USClub, and DA.
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Thanks, yes for DA (for olders) and USYSoccer.

Yes for USClub Soccer but not straight forward because they run parallel programs between NPL and National Cup. Unless they've changed from this year to next, along with the intro of Elite NPL (ENPL), both ladders have its own national champion. They do not compete in a combined final.
 
mirage said:
If you look at it from USYSoccer (CalSouth) perspective, its:

NL > CRL > SCDSL/CSL > SDDA > Presidio > independent leagues
You can easily tell/verify by looking at the path to the National Finals via Regionals. NL pool winners go straight to the Finals, CRL winner goes to Regionals and all other leagues have to compete and win in the SoCal National Cup round to advance to Regionals.

If you look at it from USClub Soccer perspective, its:
Boys: ENPL > ECNL Boys/NPL
Girls: ECNL > EGSL > NPL
Both: National Cup (separate from USYSoccer) via Regionals
USClub Soccer has smaller footprint than USYSoccer in SoCal but its different in other parts of the country (even NoCal, where they run their State Cup that feeds into Regionals)

If you look at it from USSDA perspective, there is no hierarchy. Its just Development Academy. So called DPL (Development Players League) is a local thing for girls side only and really created by DA clubs that don't have ECNL.

So if you look at it the national perspective, its clearly USSDA is the top league, as demonstrated by their actions (i.e., 99% of national team players come from DA teams). While ECNL is very popular, within 2~3 yrs, it will definitely be a step below DA, in terms of importance as the best players will migrate to it, just as it happened on the boys side, I'm guessing.

In terms of absolute competitiveness of the teams, its different from age to age and certainly between the boys and the girls. League wise, your bigger clubs that have DA and ECNL tends to be in SCDSL for their lower teams, while smaller clubs with very strong teams tend to be in CSL. There are exceptions but mostly so.

Other than speculating what might happen in the girls DA side, I've left out my personal views on whats better than another. To pick one over the other is like arguing Ford vs Chevy in (old) NASCAR country and there is no right answer.
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This is a great post. If you wanted to take it to the next level you can explain to situations where a team can play in multiple leagues - i.e. a girls team can do SCDSL as well as NPL or CRL in the same season. Permutation may get a little complex - but hey - that's club soccer!
 
transplant said:
This is a great post. If you wanted to take it to the next level you can explain to situations where a team can play in multiple leagues - i.e. a girls team can do SCDSL as well as NPL or CRL in the same season. Permutation may get a little complex - but hey - that's club soccer!
Click to expand...
In my view, many of the "leagues" mirage mentions are really better thought of as tournaments - mainly for the reason your post implies, which is that teams can play in them even thought they play in a different fall league.

If you look at the '02 CRL league teams for this fall, for example, you will see a mix of DPL, CSL Premier and SCDSL Flight 1 (Champions) teams. See photo below. Teams are selected by way of a play-in tournament. "League" play is before the fall DPL/CSL/SCDSL seasons and there is also a showcase event. The top CRL teams earn automatic placement in the National League (NL). Some of CRL teams in the photo have already earned their place in the NL for 2017-18

The NL is also independent of the fall league. For example, that '03 San Diego Soccer Club Academy-Navy team that is playing up in G02 for the fall SCDSL season is in the NL for 2017-18. The NL "season" consists of playing in two of three showcase events (held in Nov, Jan and March). And there is a "National Championship" match held in July.

ECNL is a separate fall league in which teams can qualify to advance to an ECNL national championship tournament (historically the closest thing to a true national championship for girls in my view). The teams that don't do as well in ECNL fall league play in lower-level ECNL post-season tournaments.

EGSL has consisted of ECNL sister teams and includes a spring "league" (i.e., extended spring tournament), a playoff and a showcase tournament. As with the NL/CRL, EGSL teams play in other fall leagues.

The Southern California NPL is another spring "league" that invites good non-EGSL teams to play. You have to be a member of CSL, SCDSL or Presidio to apply, but the team and players must separately register for USClub Soccer (as mirage pointed out, it's not CalSouth). NPL also has a winter showcase and "national championship."

I'm not sure there is a clear hierarchy between EGSL and NPL. More like parallel tournaments, in my view, both with some pretty good teams and some average teams. EGSL just happens to consist of ECNL sister teams.

So, to get back to transplant's question:
  • The true fall leagues for girls (which are mutually exclusive of each other) are: ECNL, CSL, SCDSL, SDDA and Presidio (and this fall DA and DPL)
  • The tournament-ish "leagues" (which are not mutually exclusive with the true fall leagues) are NL, CRL, EGSL and NPL
  • ECNL teams have their own national championship and, unlike teams from the other true fall leagues, wouldn't play in NL/CRL/EGSL/NPL.
 

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SocalPapa said:
In my view, many of the "leagues" mirage mentions are really better thought of as tournaments - mainly for the reason your post implies, which is that teams can play in them even thought they play in a different fall league....
Click to expand...

Its worth noting that, in USYSoccer programs, one cannot just sign up for the upper tier leagues. Teams must qualify by winning lower tier or play-in tournaments (i.e., SoCal National Cup and CRL Play-in) or be invited based on the previous season's performance.

We, often discuss how winning is not important and that development is paramount. Yes its true and its true for the Youngers. However, as the players transition to olders at U14+, to be on the winning team is very important from exposure perspective.

To be accepted into high profile tournaments, one has to have a great winning track record for the most part. There are handful of top tier tournaments that just about EVERY college coach attend.

Surf Cup, Disney Showcase, and Dallas Cup

You get there by making NL, or National Finals, or be on one of the DA teams that participates that these three venues.

ECNL showcases perform the same function as DA playoffs/showcases. Both of these have taken the leg work away from the college coaches. By attending these, you have the top 1% and its all filtered for you by the local clubs. Coaches can focus on which players meet the needs, rather than finding where the players are.

So if you are a coach and you're looking at your travel budget for recruiting, just how and where are you going to spend your money. By the time you goto the DA/ECNL playoffs/showcases, couple major tournaments, there isn't a lot of money left over other than just covering the local events. Its not rocket science, if you look at it from their perspective.

That's why winning matters for college aspiring players in youth sports and which league gives you the best exposure opportunities....
 
mirage said:
Its worth noting that, in USYSoccer programs, one cannot just sign up for the upper tier leagues. Teams must qualify by winning lower tier or play-in tournaments (i.e., SoCal National Cup and CRL Play-in) or be invited based on the previous season's performance.

We, often discuss how winning is not important and that development is paramount. Yes its true and its true for the Youngers. However, as the players transition to olders at U14+, to be on the winning team is very important from exposure perspective.

To be accepted into high profile tournaments, one has to have a great winning track record for the most part. There are handful of top tier tournaments that just about EVERY college coach attend.

Surf Cup, Disney Showcase, and Dallas Cup

You get there by making NL, or National Finals, or be on one of the DA teams that participates that these three venues.

ECNL showcases perform the same function as DA playoffs/showcases. Both of these have taken the leg work away from the college coaches. By attending these, you have the top 1% and its all filtered for you by the local clubs. Coaches can focus on which players meet the needs, rather than finding where the players are.

So if you are a coach and you're looking at your travel budget for recruiting, just how and where are you going to spend your money. By the time you goto the DA/ECNL playoffs/showcases, couple major tournaments, there isn't a lot of money left over other than just covering the local events. Its not rocket science, if you look at it from their perspective.

That's why winning matters for college aspiring players in youth sports and which league gives you the best exposure opportunities....
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Well put Mirage...
 
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