SCDSL Flights?

[mirage]

.......... On paper I'm not sure about Pateadores and Real. The Pateadores top team from last year (Pateadores - Irvine G2002 - Ickes) is back with the same coach. They've done reasonably well in summer tournaments so looks like they still have decent talent. Same for Real So Cal - SCV (Mitrovitch)

• LA Galaxy is not LA Galaxy South Bay.
  • The LA Galaxy South Bay website refers to the Academy program as "our LA Galaxy Academy." So they are representing to parents they are the same. http://www.lagalaxysouthbay.com/Programs/YearRoundTeams/index_E.html In any event, if there were no such connection then there would be LESS of a chance of the Galaxy's DA team negatively impacting SCDSL Flight 1.
• Slammers, So Cal Blues, West Coast, and San Diego Surf - These clubs have both DA and ECNL. This will pull players from the top SCSDL teams.
  • I acknowledged player movement was a separate issue. However, I presume DA would draw from all over, not necessarily the specific club the DA team is housed in. DAII (or DPL as they call it) would seem more likely to pull a whole team out of SCDSL or CSL. That's the mystery right now......

So you're still believing that if the team name and the coach is the same, the player roster is the same?

Think of it this way. The team name is the label and the coach is the label holder. What the label gets stuck onto can be completely different. You cannot make the statement (you maybe right, btw) that they are the same until you see the roster. The actual players playing the games.

LAG is not LAGSB/OC/SD as the latter are all franchise organization with its own 501(C)3 charter and its own board of directors. They are licensing LAG name for fee. But LAG (not LAGSB) and LAGSD do have GDAs and they are new so they will draw from everywhere.

Since this thread is going back and forth on this particular aspect, I checked out the SCDSL website for club team listing. Its clear that the clubs with DPL has far less teams enrolled in SCDSL this season than the last.

So, speculating this is probably too uncertain to have any validity. Once season starts, you'll see who's on the field and playing, and will have the ground truth. Meanwhile, just go with what you believe in....

 

[SocalPapa]

If I am not mistaken LA Galaxy San Diego has moved to SCDSL

You're right, I don't see them in CSL for 2017. I see their boys teams in SCDSL, but for the G02 girls it looks like their Premier team moved to DPL and their other two teams now play in SDDA.

 

[mirage]

I still don't understand this "DPL/DAII" thing.
DPL is just another league put together by a few coaches/clubs to generate interest and INCOME.

What does it have to do with US Soccer?

I think you have it.

Development Players' (DP) are, it used to be and may have changed, allowed 4 games and once 4 games are played, the club had to either release the player from the squad or make the player Full Time player. The notion is to have a reserve team made up of that would be DP candidates to play onto the DA team. So the league would sync with DA season and allow the clubs without ECNL (since if they have both, they can pull from ECNL team) be available anytime. This probably means no high school or national cup either - just guessing.

In other words, more Kool Aide and the potential to the player to play DA (for parents that didn't quite make DA parents roster).

 

[LadiesMan217]

I still don't understand this "DPL/DAII" thing.
DPL is just another league put together by a few coaches/clubs to generate interest and INCOME.

What does it have to do with US Soccer?

The Development Player League (DPL) is designed to expand the Girls Development Academy (DA) player pool for participating clubs. Why are you associating it with US Soccer? Many of the clubs do not have ECNL as their second team. DPL is just another league - you are correct. Of course it is there to generate interest and income - that is why 99% of the clubs exist duh.

 

[SocalPapa]

So you're still believing that if the team name and the coach is the same, the player roster is the same?

Think of it this way. The team name is the label and the coach is the label holder. What the label gets stuck onto can be completely different. You cannot make the statement (you maybe right, btw) that they are the same until you see the roster. The actual players playing the games.

Excellent point. I refer you back to my original post on this topic where I said "But, of course, it will ultimately depend on player movement more than team movement."

LAG is not LAGSB/OC/SD as the latter are all franchise organization with its own 501(C)3 charter and its own board of directors. They are licensing LAG name for fee. But LAG (not LAGSB) and LAGSD do have GDAs and they are new so they will draw from everywhere.

So confirmed then that LAG has not stolen any Flight 1 teams.

 

[Simisoccerfan]

All of the local leagues except DA have nothing to do with US Soccer and every league is trying to generate interest and INCOME. Nothing is free and everyone needs to get paid. DA does allow teams to add Development Players during the season but they need to be already playing for another team on the club. This could be a player from the DPL/SCDSL/CSL or any other league as long as they play for the same club.

I guess in theory if your on a non-DA team playing in SCDSL you could leave your team and be added as a full time player on a DA team at the one open add period. The advantage of playing for the same club is that you could be a DP player and get to play up to 6 times with the DA to see if your a fit for the team prior to being added. The chances of this happening are very slim if the DA has a full roster of 23. More likely if they are carrying closer to 18 and injuries occur.

I can't fault the DA teams that don't also have ECNL from forming their own league (DPL) for control and to try and keep more quality players in their club. Its the same thing that the clubs did when SCDSL was formed.

 

[The Driver]

Don't Believe The Hype

 

[Justafan]

If you throw the DPL/DAII, ECNL & SCDSL flight 1 teams into a giant tournament it would probably be pretty even competition overall.

That's a fact. Would also likely be competitive with several lower tier DA teams.

 

[galaxydad]

I agree with justafan. It would be even. Minus the full funded teams but those would be close games too

 

[SitByMyself]

I was 10 for 11. That 2003 team that is playing up (San Diego Soccer Club G2003 Academy Navy) was given a spot instead of Beach FC - South Bay G02 Torres. Interesting.

https://scdslsoccer.demosphere-secure.com/club-directory/2017-flights/

Do you disagree?

 

[Dos Equis]

That's a fact. Would also likely be competitive with several lower tier DA teams.

Actually, that is an opinion at this point in time, and one which the truth of is likely to vary greatly depending on the age group.

In the ECNL 02 ranks, you have 4 returning ECNL teams with rosters mostly intact, all in the top half of the ECNL standings in 2016-2017 (Blues, Arsenal, Surf, and Strikers). I would not be going out on a limb to say that not a single DPL/DA2 or SCDSL Flight 1 team will be able to compete with those 4 teams in that age group. They are also better than many of the 01/02 DA teams (take a look at the Silverlakes Showcase and Surf Cup results in the DA brackets, and goal differential, for an example of the disparity in competition in the DA).

For '04 and below, the league alphabet soup may have indeed produced parity at next level below DA, but for existing ECNL age groups, I expect ECNL is still a much more competitive bracket than all but DA, and in older age groups, close to parity with DA.

As for SCDSL Flight 1, with the departure of the DA and the DPL teams (and with some second teams now becoming ECNL), I would suggest it is a step below CSL Premier.

 

[galaxydad]

Actually, that is an opinion at this point in time, and one which the truth of is likely to vary greatly depending on the age group.

In the ECNL 02 ranks, you have 4 returning ECNL teams with rosters mostly intact, all in the top half of the ECNL standings in 2016-2017 (Blues, Arsenal, Surf, and Strikers). I would not be going out on a limb to say that not a single DPL/DA2 or SCDSL Flight 1 team will be able to compete with those 4 teams in that age group. They are also better than many of the 01/02 DA teams (take a look at the Silverlakes Showcase and Surf Cup results in the DA brackets, and goal differential, for an example of the disparity in competition in the DA).

For '04 and below, the league alphabet soup may have indeed produced parity at next level below DA, but for existing ECNL age groups, I expect ECNL is still a much more competitive bracket than all but DA, and in older age groups, close to parity with DA.

As for SCDSL Flight 1, with the departure of the DA and the DPL teams (and with some second teams now becoming ECNL), I would suggest it is a step below CSL Premier.

In the older ages the top 2-4 DAs that are fully funded are likely the top talent but I'd argue that the top talent in each of the leagues could and HAVE held their own against these teams when they are given a rare chance to play .

 

[SocalPapa]

Do you disagree?

Talent-wise I think the '03 team belongs there. They just won Surf Cup's Girls U15 Super Black division (which included a number of ECNL teams, among other talented teams). Beach Torres, by contrast, was winless two weeks ago in the Eagles Summer Classic (including losses to teams that played in CSL Silver and Bronze, respectively, last fall). I don't want to read too much into one bad summer tournament, as Beach may have been playing short, but at first blush it looks like Beach Torres may be one team from a DA club that has suffered the types of roster losses people have been concerned about in this thread.

That said, I wonder why SCDSL would accept the '03 team in the '02 division in the first place. It effectively took a Champions spot from some other good team that might have replaced Torres. But not a huge issue in the long run as the best teams will still have a chance to play in the Champions division for the playoffs.

 

[SocalPapa]

As for SCDSL Flight 1, with the departure of the DA and the DPL teams (and with some second teams now becoming ECNL), I would suggest it is a step below CSL Premier.

Why do you think CSL Premier would be impacted less? There are plenty of DA clubs that have had teams playing in CSL Premier.

 

[Multi Sport]

I think you have it.



In other words, more Kool Aide and the potential to the player to play DA (for parents that didn't quite make DA parents roster).

hilarious...

 

[Dos Equis]

Why do you think CSL Premier would be impacted less? There are plenty of DA clubs that have had teams playing in CSL Premier.

CSL Premier lost at most 3 teams per bracket. But LA Premier, Albion and LAGSD (the DA clubs lost) where not always top 3, and the one bracket they were ('99) aged out. You have 8-10 returning teams in most Premier brackets. SCDSL lost between 6-10 teams per bracket in flight one champions. They lost the top 2 teams from Beach, Legends and Pats (now Da and DPL), Slammers 2nd team (now ECNL), Blues second team (now ECNL, in some cases), WCFC second team (now ECNL), Del Mar Sharks first team (now ECNL), La Galaxy SB (these girls went to LA Galaxy DA), and the second team for RSC (now DPL).

CSL was impacted, agreed. But SCDSL flight 1 is a shadow of what it was. That is not really a surprise. You may think CSL was so bad that they are now at parity, but my experience was that CSL was only slightly behind SCDSL flight one (on average) and the lost top teams tip the balance heavily in CSL's favor.

 

[SocalPapa]

CSL Premier lost at most 3 teams per bracket. But LA Premier, Albion and LAGSD (the DA clubs lost) where not always top 3, and the one bracket they were ('99) aged out. You have 8-10 returning teams in most Premier brackets. SCDSL lost between 6-10 teams per bracket in flight one champions. They lost the top 2 teams from Beach, Legends and Pats (now Da and DPL), Slammers 2nd team (now ECNL), Blues second team (now ECNL, in some cases), WCFC second team (now ECNL), Del Mar Sharks first team (now ECNL), La Galaxy SB (these girls went to LA Galaxy DA), and the second team for RSC (now DPL).

CSL was impacted, agreed. But SCDSL flight 1 is a shadow of what it was. That is not really a surprise. You may think CSL was so bad that they are now at parity, but my experience was that CSL was only slightly behind SCDSL flight one (on average) and the lost top teams tip the balance heavily in CSL's favor.

Good analysis, but I think you are talking the best case scenario for CSL. Again looking at G02, consider the actual CSL Premier teams that had winning records last year:

1. FRAM HOFFMAN - returning; beat a 2017 SCDSL Flight 2 team (yes, Flight 2), CDA Slammers EGSL Larsen, by only 1-0 two weeks ago
2. BYSC CORONA UNITED G02 - returning; lost to a 2017 Flight 1 (Champions) team, So Cal Blues Farrell, 2-3 last month
3. LAGSD G02 ELITE- DRUMMOND - gone
4. ALBION SC G02 ACADEMY - gone
5. FULLERTON RANGERS G02 WHI - returning; beat a 2017 Flight 1 (Champions) team, LAGSB Elite 2-1, last month

So 2 of 5 CSL Premier winning teams are gone with the other 3 having played Flight 1/2 teams to within 1 goal (either way) in recent games. So I think it's a little early to say the SCDSL Flight 1 is a shadow of its former self or that the balance has been tipped "heavily" in CSL's favor.

Frankly, I hate to see either league gutted. If you keep pulling out the top teams and players, there's not much to aspire to.

 

[Dos Equis]

Good analysis, but I think you are talking the best case scenario for CSL. Again looking at G02, consider the actual CSL Premier teams that had winning records last year:

1. FRAM HOFFMAN - returning; beat a 2017 SCDSL Flight 2 team (yes, Flight 2), CDA Slammers EGSL Larsen, by only 1-0 two weeks ago
2. BYSC CORONA UNITED G02 - returning; lost to a 2017 Flight 1 (Champions) team, So Cal Blues Farrell, 2-3 last month
3. LAGSD G02 ELITE- DRUMMOND - gone
4. ALBION SC G02 ACADEMY - gone
5. FULLERTON RANGERS G02 WHI - returning; beat a 2017 Flight 1 (Champions) team, LAGSB Elite 2-1, last month

So 2 of 5 CSL Premier winning teams are gone with the other 3 having played Flight 1/2 teams to within 1 goal (either way) in recent games. So I think it's a little early to say the SCDSL Flight 1 is a shadow of its former self or that the balance has been tipped "heavily" in CSL's favor.

Frankly, I hate to see either league gutted. If you keep pulling out the top teams and players, there's not much to aspire to.

I agree with your last point, and think between CRL, SCDSL, DPL and CSL, we have at least one league too many at that level.

It is unwise to look at the result from one recent game and draw a conclusion, particularly in the summer months. But maybe SCDSL will flourish with third teams and smaller clubs' top teams making up its top flight, and be the equal of CSL. I look forward to seeing how the SCDSL/CSL balance works out, and we will get to when they play each other in leagues/circuits that matter like CRL and National Cup.

However, if I were to do your analysis above for 2016 SCDSL 02 Champions teams, it would be impossible since 8 of the 11 teams that were in it last year are gone to DA, DPL or ECNL.

The argument ... correction, the claimed "fact" that either are even close to the level of ECNL was my primary source of disagreement and amusement. The rest was my estimation of how things will work out in terms of competitive order.

 

[SocalPapa]

between CRL, SCDSL, DPL and CSL, we have at least one league too many at that level.

A perfect way to put it!

One question, as you've probably figured out I have a particular interest in G02, so which 8 teams from the G02 2016 Champions division actually left SCDSL? I had counted 6 of 11 returning (including Beach FC Torres, which was demoted to Europa). The 5 I thought had left were Beach Academy, Legends Academy 1, Legends Academy II, So Cal Blues Holley (with perhaps some of that roster now moved to Farrell), and I guess Slammers FC (Gordon). (You mentioned above that LAGSB moved to DA, but someone else in this thread claimed LAGSB is completely separate from LAGDA and it otherwise looks like Champions includes the same LAGSB - Elite team from last year. Is the roster different?)

 

[Dos Equis]

A perfect way to put it!

One question, as you've probably figured out I have a particular interest in G02, so which 8 teams from the G02 2016 Champions division actually left SCDSL? I had counted 6 of 11 returning (including Beach FC Torres, which was demoted to Europa). The 5 I thought had left were Beach Academy, Legends Academy 1, Legends Academy II, So Cal Blues Holley (with perhaps some of that roster now moved to Farrell), and I guess Slammers FC (Gordon). (You mentioned above that LAGSB moved to DA, but someone else in this thread claimed LAGSB is completely separate from LAGDA and it otherwise looks like Champions includes the same LAGSB - Elite team from last year. Is the roster different?)

If G02 is your interest, I copied below the SCDSL standings from Champions league last year, and the eight teams that will be leaving or substantially different are as follows (1,1,3,4,5,8,10,11). If you think LAG is separate than LAGSB, I ask you where exactly do you think a late starting and disorganized DA found their roster -- in the South Bay at an affiliate. The fact that they got their a$$ kicked in the first DA tournament (Surf Cup) is one indication how little they actually cared about their girls DA program up front. They are still actively recruiting.

G02 in Socal is interesting. Blues Baker, Arsenal, and Surf are staying ECNL. Those are likely the three best teams at 02. Beach, Legends and Slammers added their 02 girls to Academy, and at 01/02 will be very good in DA. But at pure '02, after that you have a very solid Strikers team, and perhaps a FRAM and BYSC team playing very good soccer.

But what do I know.

1 Beach FC G02 Academy
1 Legends FC G02 Academy I
3 Legends FC G02 Academy II
4 CDA Slammers FC - HB 02 Elite EGSL
5 So Cal Blues 2002 Holley
6 Slammers FC G2002 Reserve
7 CDA Slammers FC - Whittier EGSL Troglia 02
8 LA Galaxy South Bay Girls 2002 Elite
8 Arsenal FC G02 EGSL 1
10 Real So Cal - SCV G2002W - Mitrovitch
11 Beach FC G02 Torres