Return to Play & Practice

[kickingandscreaming]

The point isn't if it's good for Sweden or not. The relevant point is that the waves all eventually expire. The question of the second wave is an open one because we don't know why the waves are expiring on their own (regardless of what governments do, severity of lockdown etc). Some scientists have argued its because of cross coronavirus immunity or T cell immunity. Some scientist have argued the virus has mutated. We just don't know why, but we do know it is happening. The only region so far though that's had a high second wave after having a high first one is Iran, but their data has is unreliable as is their testing so we just don't really know.

Agreed. I was only referring to the "gain" economically vs. the loss in life that they may have been able to mitigate by shutting down. My point was that if we get a second wave this fall, all these "numbers" change again. I hope not, but it appears to be the common belief that there will be some sort of 2nd wave of the virus this fall.

You were spot on with the "slow burn" in California when you posted back in May. I can't say I read anything anywhere else predicting that. Maybe it was out there, but I didn't see it. Well done.

 

[kickingandscreaming]

You have not presented one clear number or anything to back your outlandish claim of it fizzling out. When clear data was presented to you showing you were wrong on every claim you just went on to another claim touting your superior knowledge with absolutely nothing to back it up. There is not one country that COVID just fizzles out without some kind of significant strategies. No matter how badly you want it to be that, you have presented nothing to support it. Show some facts...

So, what about that graph isn't "fizzling out"?

 

[paytoplay]

Look at the chart. I did the research for you. The wave in Sweden has crested,both in death and new cases. I'm not saying the Swedish strategy was the right one. But the waves (even in much maligned Sweden) do eventually expire. It's math.

You can say it. The Swedish strategy was obviously the wrong one. As was the Arizona, Texas, Florida, etc...

NY Times:

“Sweden's decision to carry on in the face of the pandemic led to thousands of more people dying than in neighboring countries — and didn't spare its economy, either. “They literally gained nothing,” one researcher said.

Here is one takeaway with potentially universal import: It is simplistic to portray government actions such as quarantines as the cause of economic damage. The real culprit is the virus itself.”

 

[SoccerFan4Life]

Yeah, this chart is the one you are talking about.

View attachment 8069

The article basically concluded that it was a Failure. “But Sweden is a country of only 10 million people. Per million people, Sweden has suffered 40 percent more deaths than the United States, 12 times more than Norway, seven times more than Finland and six times more than Denmark.
Sweden’s central bank expects its economy to contract by 4.5 percent this year, a revision from a previously expected gain of 1.3 percent.”

Spain is also seeing new hot spots. I can’t think of any leader in the US that could have avoided our current mess. Most could do better than Trump but nobody would have been able to succeed.

 

[Ellejustus]

The article basically concluded that it was a Failure. “But Sweden is a country of only 10 million people. Per million people, Sweden has suffered 40 percent more deaths than the United States, 12 times more than Norway, seven times more than Finland and six times more than Denmark.
Sweden’s central bank expects its economy to contract by 4.5 percent this year, a revision from a previously expected gain of 1.3 percent.”

Spain is also seeing new hot spots. I can’t think of any leader in the US that could have avoided our current mess. Most could do better than Trump but nobody would have been able to succeed.

Fear+Politics+Lawsuits is a deadly mix for any business to succeed or for anyone to have a normal life of peace & safety. I think most want peace. If you don;t have safety you won't have peace. No peace=fear=????

 

[Grace T.]

The article basically concluded that it was a Failure. “But Sweden is a country of only 10 million people. Per million people, Sweden has suffered 40 percent more deaths than the United States, 12 times more than Norway, seven times more than Finland and six times more than Denmark.
Sweden’s central bank expects its economy to contract by 4.5 percent this year, a revision from a previously expected gain of 1.3 percent.”

Spain is also seeing new hot spots. I can’t think of any leader in the US that could have avoided our current mess. Most could do better than Trump but nobody would have been able to succeed.

Again not holding up Sweden as an example that should be followed but an example that even among a near uncontrolled outbreak the wave peters out even without government intervention. Btw a near majority of Sweden’s deaths were in elder care and retirement living since they made similar mistakes to ny....one can’t say yay Sweden and then boo ny.....one of the reason the cfr is getting better is because other states learned from the mistakes of ny and Europe re these facilities. The only thing the government intervention might do is hold the peak down if timed properly which is difficult in SoCal since our early lockdown left us with with a slow burn instead of a more common wave so it’s just going to take us longer to go through it. Add the border, the protests, and the aircon and we are where we are. Some states that opened before us (d colorado) or countries with no masks (norway Denmark finland) have done better but I suspect not by govt policy but by quirks of luck location and weather. But I agree that while some might have done better than trump (not sure it’s most since a lot of governors too both d and r have been awful Including our own), none would have succeeded.

 

[Ellejustus]

Return to school & play? t says you better do your job or else. Is this a showdown in Cali? Teachers on here, are you willing to take a risk or is it really too risky? I'm truly interested. My nurse friend risk her life everyday and loves the action.

 

[Eagle33]

Return to school & play? t says you better do your job or else. Is this a showdown in Cali? Teachers on here, are you willing to take a risk or is it really too risky? I'm truly interested. My nurse friend risk her life everyday and loves the action.

Just put all teachers in the hazmat suit and open schools!

 

[messy]

Back on topic for a second...my son's first game for the MLS league is scheduled for Sept 12.

What age group? The MLS teams I know aren't talking yet about that.

 

[Calisoccer11]

Back on topic for a second...my son's first game for the MLS league is scheduled for Sept 12.

that's good news!! Is the schedule public? Can you share a link?

 

[paytoplay]

The article basically concluded that it was a Failure. “But Sweden is a country of only 10 million people. Per million people, Sweden has suffered 40 percent more deaths than the United States, 12 times more than Norway, seven times more than Finland and six times more than Denmark.
Sweden’s central bank expects its economy to contract by 4.5 percent this year, a revision from a previously expected gain of 1.3 percent.”

Spain is also seeing new hot spots. I can’t think of any leader in the US that could have avoided our current mess. Most could do better than Trump but nobody would have been able to succeed.

If not for events, the individual governors, stock market plunge, bad polling, etc., forcing Trump’s hand, the US response would have been like Sweden with 40% more deaths. Except the US has a far more unhealthy population and a primitive healthcare system, and our wave would have crested and taken out the whole beach. Now imagine how much better off we’d be, and closer to reopening youth sports, if Trump had simply said “wear a mask and listen to the doctors!” Instead, he does the opposite of leadership, he looks for any opportunity to exploit the crisis and to cause division and discord. United we stand, divided we fall.

 

[kickingandscreaming]

The article basically concluded that it was a Failure. “But Sweden is a country of only 10 million people. Per million people, Sweden has suffered 40 percent more deaths than the United States, 12 times more than Norway, seven times more than Finland and six times more than Denmark.
Sweden’s central bank expects its economy to contract by 4.5 percent this year, a revision from a previously expected gain of 1.3 percent.”

Yeah, that's why my previous post stated, "This doesn't look good for Sweden."

 

[jpeter]

What age group? The MLS teams I know aren't talking yet about that.

Generic company line....two weeks ago one of persons involved with the league said the tentative start date is Sept 12th but during these uncertain times we will update you on any changes or details or something like that I recall.

When real training starts back up and teams can at least scrimmage scheduling details should be coming out I would hope.

 

[kickingandscreaming]

Some states that opened before us (d colorado) or countries with no masks (norway Denmark finland) have done better but I suspect not by govt policy but by quirks of luck location and weather.

With the uncertainty around transmission, I am surprised that weather and the associated need to be inside a heated/AC'ed home, doesn't get more consideration. Along with distancing and masks, getting outside seems like a very good idea.

 

[Desert Hound]

I also noted how ICU bed availability is virtually flat from where it was on 5/2 (3922) to where it is on 7/6 (3,925).

keepermom keeps talking about running out of icus. And yet looking at the Cal stats, availability has been flat now for some time.

 

[Desert Hound]

Do you have a link to a study or report that shows this -- genuinely would be interested to read up on something that claims what CFR defines an epidemic and where the CFR is currently falling.

CDC actually has a stat on what level above or below determines if a disease is a pandemic. I was looking at it the other day. Did not save the link. If you dig around I am sure you can find it though.

 

[Desert Hound]

You have not presented one clear number or anything to back your outlandish claim of it fizzling out

You didn't bother to look at the charts regarding Sweden. If you do, you will see it is fizzling out.

 

[messy]

You didn't bother to look at the charts regarding Sweden. If you do, you will see it is fizzling out.

Sweden Has Become the World’s Cautionary Tale
Its decision to carry on in the face of the pandemic has yielded a surge of deaths without sparing its economy from damage — a red flag as the United States and Britain move to lift lockdowns.

 

[Grace T.]

Sweden Has Become the World’s Cautionary Tale
Its decision to carry on in the face of the pandemic has yielded a surge of deaths without sparing its economy from damage — a red flag as the United States and Britain move to lift lockdowns.

And there we have it. If even the UK isn't safe to open (after their late lockdown and horrible curve), the logic of the panic-drive school is basically perpetual lockdown until a vaccine. No youth sports, no schools until a vaccine (and also, where we started this, no informal get togethers with 'safe' friends). Stay locked down, stay safe.

Here's a little thought exercise. We know the flu is more dangerous to the under 12 set. Yet the under 12 set is being asked to make enormous sacrifice for those that are older, in particular those that are near the end of life. So, every flu season, shouldn't we be requiring masks of everyone as well? Yes, we know we have a vaccine and kids die from it, but if masks are a good idea to save the old, shouldn't we also wear masks to save the young, if it is such a small burden on everyone? If not why are we all asking the young to sacrifice now, if we aren't prepared to sacrifice for them later?

 

[Ellejustus]

And there we have it. If even the UK isn't safe to open (after their late lockdown and horrible curve), the logic of the panic-drive school is basically perpetual lockdown until a vaccine. No youth sports, no schools until a vaccine (and also, where we started this, no informal get togethers with 'safe' friends). Stay locked down, stay safe.

Here's a little thought exercise. We know the flu is more dangerous to the under 12 set. Yet the under 12 set is being asked to make enormous sacrifice for those that are older, in particular those that are near the end of life. So, every flu season, shouldn't we be requiring masks of everyone as well? Yes, we know we have a vaccine and kids die from it, but if masks are a good idea to save the old, shouldn't we also wear masks to save the young, if it is such a small burden on everyone? If not why are we all asking the young to sacrifice now, if we aren't prepared to sacrifice for them later?

I dont know about all you older folks older than 50, but my most cherish and valuable times in my life was my youth. Some are stealing the best times for youths all because. That is sick!!!

 

[MSK357]

And there we have it. If even the UK isn't safe to open (after their late lockdown and horrible curve), the logic of the panic-drive school is basically perpetual lockdown until a vaccine. No youth sports, no schools until a vaccine (and also, where we started this, no informal get togethers with 'safe' friends). Stay locked down, stay safe.

Here's a little thought exercise. We know the flu is more dangerous to the under 12 set. Yet the under 12 set is being asked to make enormous sacrifice for those that are older, in particular those that are near the end of life. So, every flu season, shouldn't we be requiring masks of everyone as well? Yes, we know we have a vaccine and kids die from it, but if masks are a good idea to save the old, shouldn't we also wear masks to save the young, if it is such a small burden on everyone? If not why are we all asking the young to sacrifice now, if we aren't prepared to sacrifice for them later?

Because its the old that are making the rules.