Prfc announcement

On the SAAZ folding rumor -

What exactly were the clubs that left ASA mad about? At the time I heard discontent over field availability, lack of referees, how teams got slotted in leagues (State 1 vs. State 2 vs. open) ... anything else? A few years later, has any of that gotten better? I know a few clubs (CCV & Premier plus others) jumped to SAAZ at the start but came back to ASA. Haven't heard the full reasons for returning, "SAAZ only cares about RSL & Rising" is the general sense I get.

I know plenty of smart / good people in both organizations. Never made sense to me why the big clubs left ASA.
 
Phoenix Soccer Dad said:
On the SAAZ folding rumor -

What exactly were the clubs that left ASA mad about? At the time I heard discontent over field availability, lack of referees, how teams got slotted in leagues (State 1 vs. State 2 vs. open) ... anything else? A few years later, has any of that gotten better? I know a few clubs (CCV & Premier plus others) jumped to SAAZ at the start but came back to ASA. Haven't heard the full reasons for returning, "SAAZ only cares about RSL & Rising" is the general sense I get.

I know plenty of smart / good people in both organizations. Never made sense to me why the big clubs left ASA.
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There was a whole thread on this on the old az forum (I think). I always thought they left so they could have more control and they thought they could do a better job. It seems they can't, from what I've experienced, seen & heard. IMV, the state isn't big enough for two leagues.
 
whatithink said:
There was a whole thread on this on the old az forum (I think). I always thought they left so they could have more control and they thought they could do a better job. It seems they can't, from what I've experienced, seen & heard. IMV, the state isn't big enough for two leagues.
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That is about right. They got mad when you had teams from Rising and Rising north slotted to play games in Maricopa same age group teams from the west valley playing at scottsdale sports complex. The general complaint i heard at that time was ASA just stopped caring. Didn't look at what was best for the players or clubs just what was easiest for them. Refs not showing up. Fields not being secured in a timely manner. They got very complacent and when the clubs complained they were ignored.... for YEARS. This was not something that happened overnight. So they decided to do it on their own. Honestly on the girls side SAAZ has way more talent and teams. Boys not so much. I think it is time to recombine but there will have to be some give and take and both organizations are egotistical and stubborn. The president of ASA is from CCV and they are the only club that came back. Premier, Thunder, Rising, RSL, all still SAAZ. I don't think Del Sol ever left but they are tiny now. Rising and RSL account for more than half of all the teams in the metro area alone.
 
tjinaz said:
That is about right. They got mad when you had teams from Rising and Rising north slotted to play games in Maricopa same age group teams from the west valley playing at scottsdale sports complex. The general complaint i heard at that time was ASA just stopped caring. Didn't look at what was best for the players or clubs just what was easiest for them. Refs not showing up. Fields not being secured in a timely manner. They got very complacent and when the clubs complained they were ignored.... for YEARS. This was not something that happened overnight. So they decided to do it on their own. Honestly on the girls side SAAZ has way more talent and teams. Boys not so much. I think it is time to recombine but there will have to be some give and take and both organizations are egotistical and stubborn. The president of ASA is from CCV and they are the only club that came back. Premier, Thunder, Rising, RSL, all still SAAZ. I don't think Del Sol ever left but they are tiny now. Rising and RSL account for more than half of all the teams in the metro area alone.
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Excel went back also. On the boys side ASA is easily as strong as SAAZ. TBH, saaz are equally guilty of the scheduling issues. Actually the person scheduling for saaz was the person scheduling for ASA ... you couldn't make it up. Wasn't the head of ASA recruited to lead up SAAZ for a hot minute and then bailed to ASA?

On the scheduling side, when you are in a state league, they try to schedule in single places so that refs can move from game to game etc. It really about convenience for the refs afaik. They don't want to drive 30-60 mins between games multiple times over a weekend, they'll walk as it won't be worth their time and cost a fortune in gas. Both SAAZ & ASA do the same thing for this reason.
 
dreamz said:
The precedent on this already exists. In CA, Strikers was kicked out of ECNL on both the boys and girls side because their top boys teams were in MLS Next. On the girls side, the top teams were in the ECNL but it didn't matter, the ECNL took the full program away because Strikers had MLS Next. The girls were decimated by other clubs and what was left ended up in E64 and the boys got EA for their second teams.
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Strikers Girls side was struggling to perform in an oversaturated area. They are still struggling to perform as an E64 club. The Strikers also seperated their boys and girls programs into "different" clubs so they would not be tied together (Strikers and Strikers North). From my perspective getting the boot is a result of lack of performance from the teams playing in the ECNL coupled with the refusal to play the clubs top teams in the ECNL to rectify the deficiency. I also understand why a club would not move from MLS NEXT to ECNL.
 
whatithink said:
Excel went back also. On the boys side ASA is easily as strong as SAAZ. TBH, saaz are equally guilty of the scheduling issues. Actually the person scheduling for saaz was the person scheduling for ASA ... you couldn't make it up. Wasn't the head of ASA recruited to lead up SAAZ for a hot minute and then bailed to ASA?

On the scheduling side, when you are in a state league, they try to schedule in single places so that refs can move from game to game etc. It really about convenience for the refs afaik. They don't want to drive 30-60 mins between games multiple times over a weekend, they'll walk as it won't be worth their time and cost a fortune in gas. Both SAAZ & ASA do the same thing for this reason.
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Thanks for the background. I know this year ASA went to playing only on certain weekends instead of spreading games out. Seemed like a good idea, less conflict with tournaments and people knew when they could take a weekend off. Probably easier to arrange fields as well.

If I remember from my daughter's playing days the upside of State league is your games were at Reach or SSC, in open league you could end up all over the Valley. As a referee, yes, it's easier to go to a single site and do 3 games instead of fields where there's only one match scheduled.

Assuming the "Rising back to ASA" rumor is true, be interesting to see if RSL sticks it out or the whole thing folds back into one.
 
Code said:
Strikers Girls side was struggling to perform in an oversaturated area. They are still struggling to perform as an E64 club. The Strikers also seperated their boys and girls programs into "different" clubs so they would not be tied together (Strikers and Strikers North). From my perspective getting the boot is a result of lack of performance from the teams playing in the ECNL coupled with the refusal to play the clubs top teams in the ECNL to rectify the deficiency. I also understand why a club would not move from MLS NEXT to ECNL.
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I disagree on this one Code. It was all about doing what I say or else. I was there at the end of the sinking ship. The losers in this were the girls and the parents who have been knocked around for years with changes with ECNL, then GDA, then ECNL again, then ECRL, then DPL and then e64 and so on. Parents paying $10K a year to get their kid recruited in college because of the letter leagues and the power some clubs have and the connections. Strikers (Eclipse) have had some real good players. Girls were left hanging out to dry right during their most important recruiting years and also had to deal with another club recruiting them with promises of "I know all the college coaches, please write a check for $4,000 to reserve your spot. I also do privates two times a week for $75 cash. This investment will insure your dd will play." The whole thing is shit for the girls. Plus Code, there is no promotion or reg in this youth soccer system. They got kicked out 100% because they refused to bring their cream of the top boys team over to the mighty and powerful ECNL. I think ECNL should have stayed girls only and I think Surf Cup should only have "The Best of the Best" Surf Cup tournament. Both got watered down over the years and as usual, politics and pay for play rules the sport. Peace bruh :)
 
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dreamz said:
The precedent on this already exists. In CA, Strikers was kicked out of ECNL on both the boys and girls side because their top boys teams were in MLS Next. On the girls side, the top teams were in the ECNL but it didn't matter, the ECNL took the full program away because Strikers had MLS Next. The girls were decimated by other clubs and what was left ended up in E64 and the boys got EA for their second teams.
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100%. The girls were caught in the middle and no teams to go to unless you were one of the best. Many of these girls came from Pats only to see the Pats get into the great ECNL. Talk about clubs hopping from one league to another. Poor innocent coaches were left in the dark and sucker girls were left with no team during the most important time for recruiting. Talk about a slap in your face. Mom and dad invested $10K a year for the last 5 years and now have no team and just left out to dry. Many of these girls were in ECNL as 8th graders and then went to GDA for greener promises. GDA was stupid and for being stupid and not listening to others with opposing views, they got what was coming. GDA quit on everyone during Covid and then ECNL got life back and they came back with a slide in their step for those who were not loyal.
 
If indeed Rising goes back it falls apart. Not sure why they would though. All the big clubs other than CCV are in SAAZ. Premier, Arsenal, AZSC, Etc. ASA has literally nothing for Girls. ASA is listing Arsenal and Premier on their site but if you look at the schedules no teams appear. Guess we will see. I really doubt Rising girls will go. ASA only has teams in U11-14 in girls open league that is it. Advanced and State leagues are combined they have U12-19 but very few teams. Not sure why Rising would join that.
 
Phoenix Soccer Dad said:
Thanks for the background. I know this year ASA went to playing only on certain weekends instead of spreading games out. Seemed like a good idea, less conflict with tournaments and people knew when they could take a weekend off. Probably easier to arrange fields as well.

If I remember from my daughter's playing days the upside of State league is your games were at Reach or SSC, in open league you could end up all over the Valley. As a referee, yes, it's easier to go to a single site and do 3 games instead of fields where there's only one match scheduled.

Assuming the "Rising back to ASA" rumor is true, be interesting to see if RSL sticks it out or the whole thing folds back into one.
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Rising back to ASA ain’t a rumor. It is happening!
PRFC youth president confirmed it at an ECNL/EA announcement meeting last week.
Additional scoop: Rising will again be part of Elite 64.
 
tjinaz said:
If indeed Rising goes back it falls apart. Not sure why they would though. All the big clubs other than CCV are in SAAZ. Premier, Arsenal, AZSC, Etc. ASA has literally nothing for Girls. ASA is listing Arsenal and Premier on their site but if you look at the schedules no teams appear. Guess we will see. I really doubt Rising girls will go. ASA only has teams in U11-14 in girls open league that is it. Advanced and State leagues are combined they have U12-19 but very few teams. Not sure why Rising would join that.
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Realistically though I'd swag that 80% of the girls teams are RSL or Rising split pretty evenly. If Rising bails, its the RSL league with some random club teams. There's divisions that are 80% RSL or 80% Rising as it is. Added to that the RSL & Rising teams are their 3th or worse teams, aka they are ATMs for the club, that's all.

They should all go back to ASA imv. It absolutely makes sense on the boys side and given the lack of depth on the girls side, one league structure makes way more sense than 2.
 
whatithink said:
Realistically though I'd swag that 80% of the girls teams are RSL or Rising split pretty evenly. If Rising bails, its the RSL league with some random club teams. There's divisions that are 80% RSL or 80% Rising as it is. Added to that the RSL & Rising teams are their 3th or worse teams, aka they are ATMs for the club, that's all.

They should all go back to ASA imv. It absolutely makes sense on the boys side and given the lack of depth on the girls side, one league structure makes way more sense than 2.
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It has been and will be a boys vs girls issue. Same could be said of ASA they should just collapse and bring all the boys over to SAAZ. I am skeptical that Rising would leave without RSL or at least consulting RSL. Especially now that they will be joining RSL in EA since they lost ECNL. The Arsenal/Premier/RSL/AZSC are their only competition. ASA at this point is a bunch of random smaller club teams and CCV.
 
tjinaz said:
It has been and will be a boys vs girls issue. Same could be said of ASA they should just collapse and bring all the boys over to SAAZ. I am skeptical that Rising would leave without RSL or at least consulting RSL. Especially now that they will be joining RSL in EA since they lost ECNL. The Arsenal/Premier/RSL/AZSC are their only competition. ASA at this point is a bunch of random smaller club teams and CCV.
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On the girls side Arsenals top 2 teams are in ECNL/ECRL, and the club isn't deep. Premier & AZSC are in DPL, and again, not deep. Those 3 clubs do not add a lot of teams per age group, way less than either of the other 2 clubs.

The boys should definitely go to ASA. Tuzos, CCV & Excel are all strong there and probably better than RSL & Rising in most age groups. Again RSL & (now) Rising will have their top teams in MLSN and EA, so its their 3rd or lower strings.
 
whatithink said:
On the girls side Arsenals top 2 teams are in ECNL/ECRL, and the club isn't deep. Premier & AZSC are in DPL, and again, not deep. Those 3 clubs do not add a lot of teams per age group, way less than either of the other 2 clubs.

The boys should definitely go to ASA. Tuzos, CCV & Excel are all strong there and probably better than RSL & Rising in most age groups. Again RSL & (now) Rising will have their top teams in MLSN and EA, so its their 3rd or lower strings.
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Plus you have Premier Joining EA and FC Arizona getting Boys ECNL so most of the bigger clubs top teams not going into state leagues anyway. Rumor is CCV may get boys ECNL. Unless they are a small club nearly all top boys and girls teams will no longer be in ASA or SAAZ.
 
tjinaz said:
Plus you have Premier Joining EA and FC Arizona getting Boys ECNL so most of the bigger clubs top teams not going into state leagues anyway. Rumor is CCV may get boys ECNL. Unless they are a small club nearly all top boys and girls teams will no longer be in ASA or SAAZ.
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Premier joining EA has to be a joke and FC Arizona are pretty bad in ECNL. Both clubs are just degrading those platforms. CCV joining ECNL makes more sense as they generally have strong first teams.

Tuzos is still probably the best development club consistently feeding the MLS programs and still retaining enough talent (& finding more) to ensure their #1 team amongst the best of the rest in the valley.

Anyway, given the dilution to the plethora of letter teams, it makes even more sense why there should only be one local/state league org. and frankly that should be ASA.
 
whatithink said:
Premier joining EA has to be a joke and FC Arizona are pretty bad in ECNL. Both clubs are just degrading those platforms. CCV joining ECNL makes more sense as they generally have strong first teams.

Tuzos is still probably the best development club consistently feeding the MLS programs and still retaining enough talent (& finding more) to ensure their #1 team amongst the best of the rest in the valley.

Anyway, given the dilution to the plethora of letter teams, it makes even more sense why there should only be one local/state league org. and frankly that should be ASA.
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Why should it be ASA? if they were so great the break wouldn't have happened. Think the folks at the big clubs that run massive tournaments know a bit more about scale than the clubs in ASA. Think there are currently more teams in SAAZ as well.

You know i used to think Tuzos did a great job of development. I can find at least 6 players from rising and/or RSL that have pro contracts. Show me 3 from Tuzos. They have this great rep but i never see anything about their players going pro, not even on their website. I figure if they did they would be marketing it all over... they don't and there is nothing in the news feeds or soccerwire. I could be wrong but I have never seen actual proof of their players going pro. If you mean feeding the MLS next.. well that i can believe but they can play in Bimbo league until they hit U12 and go MLS. No need for state league.

Premier is EA Southwest next year.

EA Player Interest

www.phoenixpremierfc.com www.phoenixpremierfc.com
 
I think Boys EA will end up like Girls DPL for good and for bad. Good that if they get enough local teams the travel is greatly reduced and its much cheaper to play. Bad in that it basically becomes what APL was and the level of competition will be about the same until you play regional teams.

Right now DPL is all arizona and one team from vegas. If EA can do that .. I think it makes it economical for many more families.

I know we shouldn't have to pay for that level of competition but that is how it is these days and there is no going back.
 
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