President Joe Biden

what-happened said:
The media can't even decide which side to land on. There has been such little reporting out of Afghanistan over the years that few understand the complexity and the nuance involved.
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Don’t fool yourself, there are plenty of very savvy journalist out there that have lived and immersed themselves in the region. They know exactly what is at stake and what has been lost. The boob tube even airs a few.
 
Hüsker Dü said:
Don’t fool yourself, there are plenty of very savvy journalist out there that have lived and immersed themselves in the region. They know exactly what is at stake and what has been lost. The boob tube even airs a few.
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You give them too much credit...Little immersion has occurred over the last 15 years in afghanistan. It's a hard place to report from, for many reasons. There are a few journalist (count them in one hand) who can be considered experts, but they are few and far between. Afghanistan is a backwater story that has all of a sudden taken center stage. The only time it gets any attention is when sides want to play the blame game. This time around, the circumstances have them all confused and they don't know who they should blame. Hint to all partisan folks, everyone is to blame. Not a brave soul to be found in the MSM.
 
Desert Hound said:
Here are some of the "experts" opinions/ideas about Afghanistan.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1427430917941891073
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Amateur hour continues. We've been rebuilding their country for over a decade. They keep blowing up schools and hospitals built by the american tax payer.. Maybe they need to tap into their narco money for infrastructure $$$. They can show us a thing or two about surplus budgets and shovel ready jobs..
 
tenacious said:
Ugh...

nypost.com

Horrifying tales of ‘forced marriages’ emerge in Taliban-held areas

A senior Taliban figure reportedly ordered that all women over the age of 15 and widows younger than 40 should be married to the insurgent fighters.
nypost.com nypost.com
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Horrifying indeed but sensationalism to say the least. This is low hanging fruit for the NY Post...Makes them feel better I suppose. Or maybe they just figured out this has been happening in this part of the world for hundreds of years. Afghanis (to include the Taliban) have been doing this since we've been in country. It's not like we or the Afghan government ever banned this. The central government has had little to no influence outside of their urban bubble.
 
what-happened said:
Horrifying indeed but sensationalism to say the least. This is low hanging fruit for the NY Post...Makes them feel better I suppose. Or maybe they just figured out this has been happening in this part of the world for hundreds of years. Afghanis (to include the Taliban) have been doing this since we've been in country. It's not like we or the Afghan government ever banned this. The central government has had little to no influence outside of their urban bubble.
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Sensationalism? The folks we left behind are having Islamic militants sell-off their daughters to fighters. This is well documented behavior by militants throughout the middle east and, so that this is happening should be a surprise to absolutely no one given Biden's total loss of the situation. Nor is it something we should avoid talking about I would say... given that this is the fate we left our allies to.

Or is this one of those Simone Briles type events, where all good American's are suppose to fall in line and say losing is better than winning? Up is really down. Good grief, what a world...
 
Lol... we live in an America where people get huffy about events that took place 100 years ago, but we're not suppose to talk about what's actually happening to these people right here and now, and our role in it? Let me say it again. GOOD GRIEF.
 
tenacious said:
Sensationalism? The folks we left behind are having Islamic militants sell-off their daughters to fighters. This is well documented behavior by militants throughout the middle east and, so that this is happening should be a surprise to absolutely no one given Biden's total loss of the situation.

Or is this one of those Simone Briles type events, where all good American's are suppose to fall in line and say losing is better than winning? Up is really down. Good grief, what a world...
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NY post is getting you to emotionally respond to a type of incident that has been occurring there under our watch (and before). Where was their outrage in 2004? 2012? 2018? They've been feeling left out and want to contribute to a narrative.

Good Americans should hold people accountable for their actions. There is a reason why there is freedom of the press. The press is supposed to be a tool that holds government accountable. Both have failed and Good Americans have been left holding the bag - just ask every soldier, airman, sailor, and marine who've set foot in that shithole of a country. They sold little girls and they are going to sell off little girls - it's how they roll. It's terrible, the world is a terrible place.
 
what-happened said:
NY post is getting you to emotionally respond to a type of incident that has been occurring there under our watch (and before). Where was their outrage in 2004? 2012? 2018? They've been feeling left out and want to contribute to a narrative.

Good Americans should hold people accountable for their actions. There is a reason why there is freedom of the press. The press is supposed to be a tool that holds government accountable. Both have failed and Good Americans have been left holding the bag - just ask every soldier, airman, sailor, and marine who've set foot in that shithole of a country. They sold little girls and they are going to sell off little girls - it's how they roll. It's terrible, the world is a terrible place.
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Great point. I'm sure this is a NY Post hit piece and there won't be anymore stories like this in respectable newspapers anytime soon.

But let's say you're wrong, and stories that the Taliban are horrible people who do horrible things turns out to be true? I'll be interested to get your take on sensationalism then. Let's hope and pray for those Afghani women... that you're not the type who is too stubborn to admit they are wrong, even when it hurts (other people).
 
tenacious said:
Lol... we live in an America where people get huffy about events that took place 100 years ago, but we're not suppose to talk about what's actually happening to these people right here and now, and our role in it? Let me say it again. GOOD GRIEF.
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What should we do about it? 20 years in Afghanistan and not one aspect of their culture has fundamentally changed. And it's not from a lack of trying. We've flooded them with western ideals. In a span of seven days, beauty shops have closed, burqas are back in style, and the education opportunities for girls have basically disappeared. Obviously those ideals weren't enough to galvanize the men of afghanistan to stand up on their own two legs to defend their daughters, sisters, and wives. Feel sorry for those that really wanted change (there are a few).. The rest will meekly shrink back into the status quo. We should not spend another dime or drop of American blood there or any part of the world that isn't willing to stand on their own two feet and shoulder the burden of helping their own country. We've basically created corrupt multi millionaires and helped create one of the most profitable narco states the world has ever seen. It will drive you crazy if you stop to think about it.

Besides, I rarely see people lined up at the recruiters office signing up for deployment to Afghanistan...at least not since Sep 2001.
 
tenacious said:
Great point. I'm sure this is a NY Post hit piece and there won't be anymore stories like this in respectable newspapers anytime soon.

But let's say you're wrong, and stories that the Taliban are horrible people who do horrible things turns out to be true? I'll be interested to get your take on sensationalism then. Let's hope and pray for those Afghani women... that you're not the type who is too stubborn to admit they are wrong, even when it hurts (other people).
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Maybe that's the wrong word to use for describing what's happening in Afghanistan. I apologize if the impression you got was that I was downplaying the reporting. They are telling the truth. It's the timing that is dishonest. It's an obvious hit piece. They don't really care about what's happening in Afghanistan. The stories are no doubt true. And they don't just include the Taliban. The Northen Alliance, our original allies, did the same thing, are doing the same thing. What I mean by sensationalism is the obvious effort by the NY Post (and others) to capitalize on the plight of the Afghani people. It's their job to stir the pot.
 
what-happened said:
What should we do about it? 20 years in Afghanistan and not one aspect of their culture has fundamentally changed. And it's not from a lack of trying. We've flooded them with western ideals. In a span of seven days, beauty shops have closed, burqas are back in style, and the education opportunities for girls have basically disappeared. Obviously those ideals weren't enough to galvanize the men of afghanistan to stand up on their own two legs to defend their daughters, sisters, and wives. Feel sorry for those that really wanted change (there are a few).. The rest will meekly shrink back into the status quo. We should not spend another dime or drop of American blood there or any part of the world that isn't willing to stand on their own two feet and shoulder the burden of helping their own country. We've basically created corrupt multi millionaires and helped create one of the most profitable narco states the world has ever seen. It will drive you crazy if you stop to think about it.

Besides, I rarely see people lined up at the recruiters office signing up for deployment to Afghanistan...at least not since Sep 2001.
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Here's another one for you. Your neighbor owes your $500 and you hear someone attacking his daughter outside in the ally at night? Is your point that because he's owes you money that it frees you from going out and helping the poor kid? I mean I'm trying to get my head around your argument, but it strikes me as a bit silly.

That said spin it however you please. Talk about prayers. Talk about right and wrong. My two cents? To leave those people, in that position is inexcusable. I might not be able to fix slavery (or even be willing to pay reparations). But I've learned enough over the last few years to know there are times when you have to say this is inexcusable that we as a nation let this happen and it's plum wrong to be looking away.
 
tenacious said:
Here's another one for you. Your neighbor owes your $500 and you hear someone attacking his daughter outside in the ally at night? Is your point that because he's owes you money that it frees you from going out and helping the poor kid? I mean I'm trying to get my head around your argument, but it strikes me as a bit silly.

That said spin it however you please. Talk about prayers. Talk about right and wrong. My two cents? To leave those people, in that position is inexcusable. I might not be able to fix slavery (or even be willing to pay reparations). But I've learned enough over the last few years to know there are times when you have to say this is inexcusable that we as a nation let this happen and it's plum wrong to be looking away.
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You are comparing our society to theirs. I'm not spinning anything. When was the last time you set foot in that part of the world? We've been there for 20 years, not one thing has changed. Kabul is not San Jose. The Korengal Valley is not Sonoma.

It's a terribly sad situation in Afghanistan. It's not a situation that we can fix. What's inexcusable is that we've lost treasure there because of the hubris and greed of this nation's leadership and agencies. Your world view would have us invade India, Pakistan, etc. Doesn't work that way.

Those "people" have been propped up for 20 years. We've offered asylum to thousands over the years and will continue to do so until we completely withdraw. We owe them nothing, we've given plenty.
 
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