Ponderable

Multi Sport said:
So based on that Willie McCovey is a puss because he accepted a Presidential Pardon? Same with 4 Star General James Cartwright? How about John Forte? Henry Flipper is a puss?

Interesting logic...
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They never preached over and over “don’t do the crime if you can’t do the time.” If they ever did, then yes, they are pussies. You know who else is a pussy, Rudy Giuliani. He made his bones as a hard charging prosecutor with no mercy for ‘la cosa nostra’. No mercy for anybody, Mr. tough on crime, then he agrees that Scooter Libby get a presidential pardon/commutation. Pussy hypocrite. Don’t preach one thing and do another. You know he was a Democrat at one time don’t you?

You have too many phony tough on crime preachers, then when a loved one gets popped (usually their kids) with a crime, they pull all their strings, call all their contacts in high places to try and get out of the jam. This also happens a lot when they get in a jam at school. I’m sure you know of plenty examples.
 
Justafan said:
They never preached over and over “don’t do the crime if you can’t do the time.” If they ever did, then yes, they are pussies. You know who else is a pussy, Rudy Giuliani. He made his bones as a hard charging prosecutor with no mercy for ‘la cosa nostra’. No mercy for anybody, Mr. tough on crime, then he agrees that Scooter Libby get a presidential pardon/commutation. Pussy hypocrite. Don’t preach one thing and do another. You know he was a Democrat at one time don’t you?

You have too many phony tough on crime preachers, then when a loved one gets popped (usually their kids) with a crime, they pull all their strings, call all their contacts in high places to try and get out of the jam. This also happens a lot when they get in a jam at school. I’m sure you know of plenty examples.
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So if you could get your kid, who was a tough guy and always talked tough, out of trouble via a pardon you would advise them to refuse it because it would mean they were a puss? Not buying it...
 
Multi Sport said:
Of course. Just don't understand why you posted it that way. I can almost guarantee you the SJ is not watching Football. Joe, like many others including myself, disagree with the way the players protest is being done.

Let me give an example. Do you believe that Rosa Parks message would have been received better had she brought an American Flag on the bus and sat on it in protest? To me you can protest, on your own time, in a peaceful manner all you want. But when you bring in the Flag or National Anthem, well that's when things start to get upset people.
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You picked the wrong flag, it would have been a confederate flag. So what you’re basically saying is go ahead and protest anywhere you want AS long as I don’t see you and you don’t bother me in any way. Pretty much defeats the purpose of a protest doesn’t it? People who say they are for the right to protest and give this lame excuse are hypocrites.

And yes, many of the biggest phonies on this issue are people on the left. They are bigger phonies because they preach the right to protest and tolerance and yet when they disagree with the message they effectively shut them out. Best example is at Berkeley when they wouldn’t allow a conservative to speak (forgot who). Were they afraid to engage in an intellectual discussion? Pathetically weak in my opinion.

And for the record I will support the KKK’s right to protest whenever and wherever they want, including when Maxine Waters takes the floor in the House. In fact I started a firestorm in a regular thread here when I defended a conservative’s right to their opinión (I’m having a senior moment so I can’t recall who it was).

If haven’t figured it out already, I just can’t stand hypocrisy.
 
Justafan said:
You picked the wrong flag, it would have been a confederate flag. So what you’re basically saying is go ahead and protest anywhere you want AS long as I don’t see you and you don’t bother me in any way. Pretty much defeats the purpose of a protest doesn’t it? People who say they are for the right to protest and give this lame excuse are hypocrites.

And yes, many of the biggest phonies on this issue are people on the left. They are bigger phonies because they preach the right to protest and tolerance and yet when they disagree with the message they effectively shut them out. Best example is at Berkeley when they wouldn’t allow a conservative to speak (forgot who). Were they afraid to engage in an intellectual discussion? Pathetically weak in my opinion.

And for the record I will support the KKK’s right to protest whenever and wherever they want, including when Maxine Waters takes the floor in the House. In fact I started a firestorm in a regular thread here when I defended a conservative’s right to their opinión (I’m having a senior moment so I can’t recall who it was).

If haven’t figured it out already, I just can’t stand hypocrisy.
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So you see no boundary on free speech that edges on yelling fire in a crowded theater? The kind that is designed to create havoc and most likely knows, may in fact intend in some cases, to start a riot amongst rivaling factions?
 
Justafan said:
You picked the wrong flag, it would have been a confederate flag. So what you’re basically saying is go ahead and protest anywhere you want AS long as I don’t see you and you don’t bother me in any way. Pretty much defeats the purpose of a protest doesn’t it? People who say they are for the right to protest and give this lame excuse are hypocrites.

And yes, many of the biggest phonies on this issue are people on the left. They are bigger phonies because they preach the right to protest and tolerance and yet when they disagree with the message they effectively shut them out. Best example is at Berkeley when they wouldn’t allow a conservative to speak (forgot who). Were they afraid to engage in an intellectual discussion? Pathetically weak in my opinion.

And for the record I will support the KKK’s right to protest whenever and wherever they want, including when Maxine Waters takes the floor in the House. In fact I started a firestorm in a regular thread here when I defended a conservative’s right to their opinión (I’m having a senior moment so I can’t recall who it was).

If haven’t figured it out already, I just can’t stand hypocrisy.
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Well were on the same page about hypocrisy. Left, right are both guilty. I don't agree with your assessment about being able to see the protest. Hardly anyone saw Rosa Parks yet look at what happened.

I'm a business owner and I would not want anyone to be protesting on my dime. In todays day and age you don't have to be on National TV to draw attention you can do it on your own time and dime. And bringing the Flag and Anthem into it just upsets so many people that any message trying to be made will be missed.
 
Multi Sport said:
So if you could get your kid, who was a tough guy and always talked tough, out of trouble via a pardon you would advise them to refuse it because it would mean they were a puss? Not buying it...
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No, in my example, the tough guy is the dad who probably works in law enforcement (i.e. prosecutor, judge, cop) and as part of their job go out of their way to portray themselves as tough on crime guys (very popular these days). Then heir kid gets popped for a crime. Then they’re turning the work upside down to get their kid off. They all hate Johnny Cochran until they need Johnny Cochran. Hypocrites.

I’ve never preached a tough on crime, no mercy attitude. That’s the difference. Where were the people during the crack epidemic who now preach we need treatment instead prison for opioid addicts? If you preached prison for one and treatment for the other you are a hypocrite.
 
Hüsker Dü said:
So you see no boundary on free speech that edges on yelling fire in a crowded theater? The kind that is designed to create havoc and most likely knows, may in fact intend in some cases, to start a riot amongst rivaling factions?
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Of course there are limits, just going for effect. Having a XX and trying to keep it interesting.
 
Justafan said:
No, in my example, the tough guy is the dad who probably works in law enforcement (i.e. prosecutor, judge, cop) and as part of their job go out of their way to portray themselves as tough on crime guys (very popular these days). Then heir kid gets popped for a crime. Then they’re turning the work upside down to get their kid off. They all hate Johnny Cochran until they need Johnny Cochran. Hypocrites.

I’ve never preached a tough on crime, no mercy attitude. That’s the difference. Where were the people during the crack epidemic who now preach we need treatment instead prison for opioid addicts? If you preached prison for one and treatment for the other you are a hypocrite.
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So that I'm clear. You would tell your tough kid to accept the pardon?
 
Multi Sport said:
So that I'm clear. You would tell your tough kid to accept the pardon?
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In my example, my kid is not the tough guy, I am as the tough on crime preaching parent. As the parent, I would never preach nor have I ever preached an uncompromising and inflexible tough guy stance on crime, quite the opposite actually, so even if I accepted the pardon (assuming for arguments sake), I would not be a hypocrite. All I’m preaching is don’t be a hypocrite. Accepting the pardon would depend on the circumstances.
 
Justafan said:
In my example, my kid is not the tough guy, I am as the tough on crime preaching parent. As the parent, I would never preach nor have I ever preached an uncompromising and inflexible tough guy stance on crime, quite the opposite actually, so even if I accepted the pardon (assuming for arguments sake), I would not be a hypocrite. All I’m preaching is don’t be a hypocrite. Accepting the pardon would depend on the circumstances.
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I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that 99.99% of parents would tell their kid to take the pardon, regardless if their kid or themselves are the tough guy. Would it be hypocrisy to do so? Like you said, it depends on the situation. But I would never categorize someone a puss because they took it. Hypocrite, maybe. Puss, no. Self preservation at it's most basic. Nobody, well most, don't want to do time and would do just about anything to avoid it. Of course if the choice is jail vs being killed? Back again to self preservation.
 
Justafan said:
As long as you’re complying with labor laws, absolutely you can fire them. These players are risking their jobs, so they know they can be fired.
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In the case of the NFL players, beyond the labor laws the employers also have to comply with the collective bargaining agreement, public reaction, and the fact that the largest component of their revenue is from a multi-year TV contract.
 
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