Ponderable

[Andy Dukes]

Which ones, the Top Secret or the Secret e-mails?

Are you trying to be cute or not just getting your facts straight. The emails Comey was discussing as part of those chains they deemed classified were not part of "found emails" but the original emails turned over to the State Department and were not part of the "found" emails.

 

[Bernie Sanders]

I think you are mistaking me for the Trump supporter David.

I never watched his show, but the Dukes, I loved.
Daisy Duke was so daisy like.
What I dont understand, is if you are the older brother, why didnt you drive the General Lee?
Did you have an even faster car, and go off jumps too big for tv?

 

[Andy Dukes]

Again, the video made it clear that there is only one liar, Hillary. Comey's speech was probably the strongest indirect calling Hillary a liar yet.

Did Comey say her actions were criminal?

 

[Bruddah IZ]

Did those Prosecutors have all the details like Comey did?

Apparently, details don't matter. Especially these details:

violating 18 U.S.C. 793(f), which states:

Whoever, being entrusted with or having lawful possession or control of any document, writing, code book, signal book, sketch, photograph, photographic negative, blueprint, plan, map, model, instrument, appliance, note, or information, relating to the national defense, (1) through gross negligence permits the same to be removed from its proper place of custody or delivered to anyone in violation of his trust, or to be lost, stolen, abstracted, or destroyed . . . Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both.

(emphasis added)

In criminal law, unless strict liability applies, a statute can require four distinct mental states (“mens rea”) to commit a crime: (i) purpose, (ii) knowledge, (iii) recklessness, and (iv) criminal/gross negligence.

 

[Lion Eyes]

Gee - I gave you another chance to participate in an adult conversation and you just go all Izzy.

Gee I'm so thrilled that you included me in one of your "lucid" moments E.
But my response is still look it up yourself, or have your Visiting Angel look it up and read it to you....

 

[Bruddah IZ]

Did Comey say her actions were criminal?

The law says her actions were criminal and Comey laid out a great case for the following law which he is not above......maybe:

violating 18 U.S.C. 793(f), which states:

Whoever, being entrusted with or having lawful possession or control of any document, writing, code book, signal book, sketch, photograph, photographic negative, blueprint, plan, map, model, instrument, appliance, note, or information, relating to the national defense, (1) through gross negligence permits the same to be removed from its proper place of custody or delivered to anyone in violation of his trust, or to be lost, stolen, abstracted, or destroyed . . . Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both.

(emphasis added)

In criminal law, unless strict liability applies, a statute can require four distinct mental states (“mens rea”) to commit a crime: (i) purpose, (ii) knowledge, (iii) recklessness, and (iv) criminal/gross negligence.

 

[Bernie Sanders]

Gee I'm so thrilled that you included me in one of your "lucid" moments E.
But my response is still look it up yourself, or have your Visiting Angel look it up and read it to you....

I love that jingle...."Visiting angels, America's favorite home care"...

 

[Bruddah IZ]

Are you trying to be cute or not just getting your facts straight. The emails Comey was discussing as part of those chains they deemed classified were not part of "found emails" but the original emails turned over to the State Department and were not part of the "found" emails.

Are you trying to be cute or not just getting your facts straight.

violating 18 U.S.C. 793(f), which states:

Whoever, being entrusted with or having lawful possession or control of any document, writing, code book, signal book, sketch, photograph, photographic negative, blueprint, plan, map, model, instrument, appliance, note, or information, relating to the national defense, (1) through gross negligence permits the same to be removed from its proper place of custody or delivered to anyone in violation of his trust, or to be lost, stolen, abstracted, or destroyed . . . Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both.

(emphasis added)

In criminal law, unless strict liability applies, a statute can require four distinct mental states (“mens rea”) to commit a crime: (i) purpose, (ii) knowledge, (iii) recklessness, and (iv) criminal/gross negligence.

 

[Bruddah IZ]

Are you trying to be cute or not just getting your facts straight. The emails Comey was discussing as part of those chains they deemed classified were not part of "found emails" but the original emails turned over to the State Department and were not part of the "found" emails.

Cute

From the group of 30,000 e-mails returned to the State Department, 110 e-mails in 52 e-mail chains have been determined by the owning agency to contain classified information at the time they were sent or received. Eight of those chains contained information that was Top Secret at the time they were sent; 36 chains contained Secret information at the time

 

[espola]

What is Assange's crime?

He hasn't been convicted of anything, so he is legally, under common usage in US and Britain, not a criminal, just a suspect avoiding investigation. The British have the strongest case against him, since he apparently violated the terms of his bail agreement while the British were deciding whether to honor the extradition request from Sweden. Sweden wants to question him on complaints from several women. The last remaining charge in Sweden is rape, the other complaints against him having expired under Swedish law's statute of limitations.

Ecuador's position is that he can stay in their embassy in London until they decide if he is really a criminal under Ecuadorian law, which may not extend to anything that happened in Sweden. Assange through his lawyers has said (or at least implied) that he does not fear the charges in Sweden, but is concerned that Sweden might extradite him to the USA, where he certainly has pissed off many individuals who have the power to do him serious harm.

It wouldn't be too difficult to construct a Tom Hanks-style movie drama where a popular anti-big-government hero is trapped by a weakness he cannot resist (sex) and then falls into the clutches of the forces he has been successfully opposing and exposing. In my script, there would be a lot of twists and turns by government officials who say one thing in public while enabling the victim's "escape" by their private actions. I read somewhere that if he can get to Iceland he will be free and clear. "Hey Julian," his lawyer tells him, "The good news is that we can get you out of any possibility of a life sentence in USA. The bad news is that you will have to live the rest of your life in Iceland."

I am still curious to know why LE called him a criminal - which if those diversions in his life was LE referring to?

 

[Bernie Sanders]

Did I ever tell you about the small newhapshire village I grew up in, where we all had chickens in the house? (not outside like the southerner's do)
It wasnt far from espola's house, of course he's a bit older than me.
We all watched the "Dukes" on the village tv set, and dreamed of having the matza balls to jump cars like those rascally Duke(s) boys.
Those rebs sure had fun, Oy Vey!

 

[Lion Eyes]

Why would Comey take the "easy way out"?

As I said he laid out a great argument for prosecution & then decided not to prosecute even after he pointed out ant reasonable person would not have acted as negligent as HRC and her staff.
Charging the presumptive Democrat nominee with criminal act was apparently something he didn't want to tackle.
So Comey detailed Hillary's negligence and her actions regarding servers and the probability of foreign hacking of those servers & then decided to punt and trusted the American people to be smart and decide at the ballot box....

 

[Andy Dukes]

Are you trying to be cute or not just getting your facts straight.

violating 18 U.S.C. 793(f), which states:

Whoever, being entrusted with or having lawful possession or control of any document, writing, code book, signal book, sketch, photograph, photographic negative, blueprint, plan, map, model, instrument, appliance, note, or information, relating to the national defense, (1) through gross negligence permits the same to be removed from its proper place of custody or delivered to anyone in violation of his trust, or to be lost, stolen, abstracted, or destroyed . . . Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both.

(emphasis added)

In criminal law, unless strict liability applies, a statute can require four distinct mental states (“mens rea”) to commit a crime: (i) purpose, (ii) knowledge, (iii) recklessness, and (iv) criminal/gross negligence.

I am not being cute. Too ugly and old for that. I remember Comey specifically stating knowledge and purpose as two things her actions did not meet the criteria. She unlike Patreaus also did not lie to the FBI about her actions. That was Comey's agents position.

 

[Bruddah IZ]

He hasn't been convicted of anything, so he is legally, under common usage in US and Britain, not a criminal, just a suspect avoiding investigation. The British have the strongest case against him, since he apparently violated the terms of his bail agreement while the British were deciding whether to honor the extradition request from Sweden. Sweden wants to question him on complaints from several women. The last remaining charge in Sweden is rape, the other complaints against him having expired under Swedish law's statute of limitations.

Ecuador's position is that he can stay in their embassy in London until they decide if he is really a criminal under Ecuadorian law, which may not extend to anything that happened in Sweden. Assange through his lawyers has said (or at least implied) that he does not fear the charges in Sweden, but is concerned that Sweden might extradite him to the USA, where he certainly has pissed off many individuals who have the power to do him serious harm.

It wouldn't be too difficult to construct a Tom Hanks-style movie drama where a popular ant-big-government hero is trapped by a weakness he cannot resist (sex) and then falls into the clutches of the forces he has been successfully opposing and exposing. In my script, there would be a lot of twists and turns by government officials who say one thing in public while enabling the victim's "escape" by their private actions. I read somewhere that if he can get to Iceland he will be free and clear. "Hey Julian," his lawyer tells him, "The good news is that we can get you out of any possibility of a life sentence in USA. The bad news is that you will have to live the rest of your life in Iceland."

I am still curious to know why LE called him a criminal - which if those diversions in his life was he referring to?

Adult status temporarily re-intstated.

Do you see that the following is applicable to Assange?

violating 18 U.S.C. 793(f), which states:

Whoever, being entrusted with or having lawful possession or control of any document, writing, code book, signal book, sketch, photograph, photographic negative, blueprint, plan, map, model, instrument, appliance, note, or information, relating to the national defense, (1) through gross negligence permits the same to be removed from its proper place of custody or delivered to anyone in violation of his trust, or to be lost, stolen, abstracted, or destroyed . . . Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both.

(emphasis added)

In criminal law, unless strict liability applies, a statute can require four distinct mental states (“mens rea”) to commit a crime: (i) purpose, (ii) knowledge, (iii) recklessness, and (iv) criminal/gross negligence.

 

[Bruddah IZ]

I am not being cute. Too ugly and old for that. I remember Comey specifically stating knowledge and purpose as two things her actions did not meet the criteria. She unlike Patreaus also did not lie to the FBI about her actions. That was Comey's agents position.

"Memory" and "two things" is "specifically" lacking don't you think? But maybe the following will rattle your memory a bit?:

violating 18 U.S.C. 793(f), which states:

Whoever, being entrusted with or having lawful possession or control of any document, writing, code book, signal book, sketch, photograph, photographic negative, blueprint, plan, map, model, instrument, appliance, note, or information, relating to the national defense, (1) through gross negligence permits the same to be removed from its proper place of custody or delivered to anyone in violation of his trust, or to be lost, stolen, abstracted, or destroyed . . . Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both.

(emphasis added)

In criminal law, unless strict liability applies, a statute can require four distinct mental states (“mens rea”) to commit a crime: (i) purpose, (ii) knowledge, (iii) recklessness, and (iv) criminal/gross negligence.

 

[Andy Dukes]

As I said he laid out a great argument for prosecution & then decided not to prosecute even after he pointed out ant reasonable person would not have acted as negligent as HRC and her staff.
Charging the presumptive Democrat nominee with criminal act was apparently something he didn't want to tackle.
So Comey detailed Hillary's negligence and her actions regarding servers and the probability of foreign hacking of those servers & then decided to punt and trusted the American people to be smart and decide at the ballot box....

He has a history of doing the tough things. Look at how he treated Ashcroft while he was AG. It was unique that he would lay out such a case against someone his department chose not to forward for prosecution. I agree that he wants the US voters to make decisions for themselves.

 

[Andy Dukes]

Adult status temporarily re-intstated.

Do you see that the following is applicable to Assange?

violating 18 U.S.C. 793(f), which states:

Whoever, being entrusted with or having lawful possession or control of any document, writing, code book, signal book, sketch, photograph, photographic negative, blueprint, plan, map, model, instrument, appliance, note, or information, relating to the national defense, (1) through gross negligence permits the same to be removed from its proper place of custody or delivered to anyone in violation of his trust, or to be lost, stolen, abstracted, or destroyed . . . Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both.

(emphasis added)

In criminal law, unless strict liability applies, a statute can require four distinct mental states (“mens rea”) to commit a crime: (i) purpose, (ii) knowledge, (iii) recklessness, and (iv) criminal/gross negligence.

No. There was no negligence and he did not remove from it's proper place.

 

[Lion Eyes]

He hasn't been convicted of anything, so he is legally, under common usage in US and Britain, not a criminal, just a suspect avoiding investigation. The British have the strongest case against him, since he apparently violated the terms of his bail agreement while the British were deciding whether to honor the extradition request from Sweden. Sweden wants to question him on complaints from several women. The last remaining charge in Sweden is rape, the other complaints against him having expired under Swedish law's statute of limitations.

Ecuador's position is that he can stay in their embassy in London until they decide if he is really a criminal under Ecuadorian law, which may not extend to anything that happened in Sweden. Assange through his lawyers has said (or at least implied) that he does not fear the charges in Sweden, but is concerned that Sweden might extradite him to the USA, where he certainly has pissed off many individuals who have the power to do him serious harm.

It wouldn't be too difficult to construct a Tom Hanks-style movie drama where a popular anti-big-government hero is trapped by a weakness he cannot resist (sex) and then falls into the clutches of the forces he has been successfully opposing and exposing. In my script, there would be a lot of twists and turns by government officials who say one thing in public while enabling the victim's "escape" by their private actions. I read somewhere that if he can get to Iceland he will be free and clear. "Hey Julian," his lawyer tells him, "The good news is that we can get you out of any possibility of a life sentence in USA. The bad news is that you will have to live the rest of your life in Iceland."

I am still curious to know why LE called him a criminal - which if those diversions in his life was LE referring to?

He is also afraid of being extradited to the USA. He apparently broke some espionage laws....
So in reality, he like Hillary is an unindicted felon....
Feel better now?

 

[Andy Dukes]

Did I ever tell you about the small newhapshire village I grew up in, where we all had chickens in the house? (not outside like the southerner's do)
It wasnt far from espola's house, of course he's a bit older than me.
We all watched the "Dukes" on the village tv set, and dreamed of having the matza balls to jump cars like those rascally Duke(s) boys.
Those rebs sure had fun, Oy Vey!

You must be getting old because you grew up in NY city.

 

[Lion Eyes]

He has a history of doing the tough things. Look at how he treated Ashcroft while he was AG. It was unique that he would lay out such a case against someone his department chose not to forward for prosecution. I agree that he wants the US voters to make decisions for themselves.

Good.
We agree he punted...