Player Demotion

Round said:
That's a lot of opinions for someone with an E license.

Reminds me of anther pretty good rule, stay away from daddy coaches.
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Yeah, because those guys that scream and berate 9 year olds are way better than a dad. And those dad coaches are the ones with fake birth certificates on file.
 
MWN said:
You have gotten some good and bad advice so far. Here is what I have learned from your posts:
  • She was the 3rd or 4th best goal scorer on the team.
  • She is a 2006 (aka 10 year old).
  • She played AYSO last year.
  • The coach thinks she should play on the lower division team.
  • She has weaknesses (which you appreciate).
  • She had filled in for other positions when players were injured.
Ok. As yourself this: Do you trust that the coach/club/system is designed to promote development of the players? If yes, put your ego aside and let the kid play with whatever team the coach believes that she is best suited. If no, leave for a coach that you think is going to help develop your player to play ALL positions on the field (except for maybe goalkeeper).

My qualifications are: E-Licensed Coach with 10+ years coaching both rec and club. Grade 8 Referee. Parent of a 2003 GK who was on a Flight 3 2003 team and this year will be playing up on a Flight 2 2002 team. I've been around and look at this from multiple perspectives.

First, you are making a huge mistake if you think "goals" scored is a factor in anything. What the coach should be looking at is:
  • Does she have the speed and agility to compete at the higher level next year?
  • Ball skills: How is her first touch? Dribbling? Escape moves?
  • Passing: Does she connect her passes for her age?
  • Awareness: Does she know her position AND the positions of her teammates? Does she anticipate properly?
  • Defending: Can she defend? Delay? Use her body and feet appropriately?
  • ... and about 20 other items/categories.
Who cares if she scored goals? (except for the parents). This is the farthest thing from my mind for a 10 year old, its irrelevant because goal scoring really only should happen when the kids are in the right position. Give me 20 good shots at goal that are saved then 20 goals due to GK or defender mistakes. She is 10.

Your goal SHOULD be to put your kid in a program that is going to help her develop into a complete player. She may be a flight 2 forward but a Rec level defender. Send her to flight 3 so the coach has the luxury to move her around and develop her into a complete player ... you know ... the kind of player that College coaches look for.

You stated: "Her game doesn't translate well in a tryout as she plays very unselfishly and would rather make the right play than to look for her own shot or play." Are you kidding? This is precisely what competitive coaches are looking for. Those small sided games and drills they play at tryouts are all about watching the kids that have an excellent first touch, find their teammate, make the appropriate pass (to space or to the feet) based on the defense, and are unselfish. Coaches are looking for balls skills, tackling skills, speed, agility, and attitude of both the player (and the parent).

Finally, any club that automatically puts kids on a team because they were there last year is a "loser" club. Kids should be put on teams that will allow that player to develop and succeed. I have seen time-and-time again that kids are put on teams because they were there last year, only to see that kid fall farther behind because of a variety of factors (puberty hasn't kicked in or it did with a vengeance, weight (too little or too much), or just the short draw of the straw when it comes to height and speed.
Click to expand...

Great post. At 10 you don't even know what position a player will ultimately play. Play good soccer. Work on technical skills. Work on tactics starting at U14. Make sure she is always having fun. Grades are #1.
 
MWN said:
You have gotten some good and bad advice so far. Here is what I have learned from your posts:
  • She was the 3rd or 4th best goal scorer on the team.
  • She is a 2006 (aka 10 year old).
  • She played AYSO last year.
  • The coach thinks she should play on the lower division team.
  • She has weaknesses (which you appreciate).
  • She had filled in for other positions when players were injured.
Ok. As yourself this: Do you trust that the coach/club/system is designed to promote development of the players? If yes, put your ego aside and let the kid play with whatever team the coach believes that she is best suited. If no, leave for a coach that you think is going to help develop your player to play ALL positions on the field (except for maybe goalkeeper).

My qualifications are: E-Licensed Coach with 10+ years coaching both rec and club. Grade 8 Referee. Parent of a 2003 GK who was on a Flight 3 2003 team and this year will be playing up on a Flight 2 2002 team. I've been around and look at this from multiple perspectives.

First, you are making a huge mistake if you think "goals" scored is a factor in anything. What the coach should be looking at is:
  • Does she have the speed and agility to compete at the higher level next year?
  • Ball skills: How is her first touch? Dribbling? Escape moves?
  • Passing: Does she connect her passes for her age?
  • Awareness: Does she know her position AND the positions of her teammates? Does she anticipate properly?
  • Defending: Can she defend? Delay? Use her body and feet appropriately?
  • ... and about 20 other items/categories.
Who cares if she scored goals? (except for the parents). This is the farthest thing from my mind for a 10 year old, its irrelevant because goal scoring really only should happen when the kids are in the right position. Give me 20 good shots at goal that are saved then 20 goals due to GK or defender mistakes. She is 10.

Your goal SHOULD be to put your kid in a program that is going to help her develop into a complete player. She may be a flight 2 forward but a Rec level defender. Send her to flight 3 so the coach has the luxury to move her around and develop her into a complete player ... you know ... the kind of player that College coaches look for.

You stated: "Her game doesn't translate well in a tryout as she plays very unselfishly and would rather make the right play than to look for her own shot or play." Are you kidding? This is precisely what competitive coaches are looking for. Those small sided games and drills they play at tryouts are all about watching the kids that have an excellent first touch, find their teammate, make the appropriate pass (to space or to the feet) based on the defense, and are unselfish. Coaches are looking for balls skills, tackling skills, speed, agility, and attitude of both the player (and the parent).

Finally, any club that automatically puts kids on a team because they were there last year is a "loser" club. Kids should be put on teams that will allow that player to develop and succeed. I have seen time-and-time again that kids are put on teams because they were there last year, only to see that kid fall farther behind because of a variety of factors (puberty hasn't kicked in or it did with a vengeance, weight (too little or too much), or just the short draw of the straw when it comes to height and speed.
Click to expand...

Agree with this post. I would add though that, in reality, a player must stand out in a crowd during a tryout. In other words, if the player is too unselfish (meaning that he/she should have owned the outcome), that can be a negative to a coach. But, I suspect my perspective is not all that meaningful for U10. Also, it depends on the position the player is being considered for (but again, at U10, its all positions isn't it). It will become clear as the player gets older which position best suit that player.

Btw, is the OP's player U10? Was asked by several few times but never noticed a respond to the age group question. I probably just missed it...

At U10, this is way more drama than needed. There are lots of future DA/ECNL/top tier players still playing rec and on lower tier teams for whatever reasons at this age. Just change clubs and find a better and more suitable team that fits your need.
 
Trying out for a team? Here is what you do beforehand:
1. Pick up the phone and call the coach.
2. Ask what he or she is looking for in a player.
3. Ask about team style.
4. Ask what his or her competitive goals are for the team.
5. Get a sense of whether this is a tryout you want to attend.
6. If not, there are 10 other tryouts within 20 minutes of where you live. Select from those.
7. If you like what you hear, tell the coach something about your son or daughter so that the coach has some idea of what to look for at the tryout.
8. Calendar a couple of other tryouts, and then leave it up to the coaches to decide.
 
I kind of went through the same with my older. She was never demoted but was also never quite noticed by the Top team in our club. She to was a player that has never stood out during Tryouts. But she is a gamer and I like to think she stands out in Matches. We stayed for 4 years with that lower tier team never really getting a shot with the top team. During our years with the lower tier team we monitored to make sure she was still playing at a high level with and against good competition. We also made sure she had the best privates, was developing skill and IQ. She would also work on her speed and agility during this time. I never sat by idly. I am one of those parents. I will always be one of "those" parents. I can tell you right now no one has her best interests in mind more than I do. So I managed. Made sure I always had a very good relationship with her coach. And when it was time to leave and have her play at a higher level, we did. After U12 we took her to a team she had guested with and felt comfortable with. With a coach who had approached me about her playing at a higher level. A team SHE picked. It happened to be a team that played at the top level. A team that had already had a lot of Success. But the parents on that team welcomed us with open arms. And the girls welcomed her. She had guested with this team so she was already familiar. But she was starting over.

Luckily everything worked out and playing for that team led to her being chosen to play for a pretty darn good team now. This has led to her committing to some of her dream schools and picking a school which I believe is a great fit for her. But I was by her side the whole way through. From talking to the Ulittle coaches to becoming friends with her future coach.

I have also been on the other side. I have another DD who played in Tier 2 on the Clubs 3rd team. She started off ok but I saw all the other players around her getting better and she wasn't. She is also an 06. She was a starter, and did her best to compete. But at the end of the day, I believe she wasn't demoted because of my relationship with the coach. So we will be exploring other sports and activities. This sport isn't for everyone. Yes, it's been extremely hard because my Ulittle had grown up playing soccer and watching big sis win national championships and so on. So it was expected that she would follow in her footsteps. And all the old coaches I have relationships with tell me to give it time. But I'm pretty realistic about my kids. My older is good but she also got lucky that she was in the right place at the right time.

So to break it down for you:
  • If you aren't happy take her to another club. Lots of great girls her in southern California who will welcome her with open arms.
  • Find a coach you feel comfortable with. An unapproachable coach at the younger ages (especially under 12) is not something I would deal with. Lots of good coaches out there and lots of good trainers that have personality and will talk to you like a human being. Besides, you are paying for a product. If you don't like the product, don't but it again.
  • Be involved. Don't go the whole year thinking everything is dandy only to be surprised at the end. I'm sure there were signs. If you had had an open line of communication with your coach you may have been able to soften the blow that comes with being cut. I saw the signs with my younger. She wasn't cut but when I would step in and coach if our coach had a conflict, my dd would be the first I would sub out as I saw she was hurting the team at times. But I saw the signs. We would have long talks on the way home with her. So when it came time to take her off the team, it was hard but not devastating as she had played with many of these girls for 3 years now. I was able to soften the blow.
  • Make sure she is happy and is truly learning to love the game. Teen Age years suck. Make sure she is so in love with the sport that you can actually use it as leverage later on when she is giving you a hard time haha. But there are so many other distractions later on that can derail her if she doesn't truly love the game.
  • Do your Homework. Before picking a club to move to, my dd must have guested with no joke 25 teams. But she made many friends along the way. Pretty much how I started Goats FC. But watch how the team plays, trains, interacts with each other. See if it's a good fit. It will help in your decision making.
  • Remember, soccer is very subjective. As others have stated, one coaches trash is another coaches treasure. I was true with my DD. She really didn't get any interest from the top team until she played against them at surf cup and send them packing. Played with a huge chip on her shoulder. Now if no coaches are interested, then maybe she may not be at the level you think she is.
  • Don't worry about tiers or levels of play. Our team signed a girl who no one knew, never played at a level higher than tier 2, and was ignored at other tryouts for teams we beat the tar out of. She turned into one of the best forwards in the league and is committed as a sophomore to one of the top schools in the country. Find a coach who will help make your dd a better player. A coach that will develop her skill and mind. Some one who will build her confidence and not tear her down.
  • Find a trainer. Look for the top girls in your club and ask their parents who they go to in the area. Training 2 days a week for and hour wont cut it. If she wants to be a top player.
  • And Finally (since I have been typing for an hour) Enjoy the process. We have made so many great memories and friends through this whole process. There are so many great people out there (with a few dicks of course) who all share something in common with you. Many of the people I stay in touch with were not even on the same team as us. Even if it hadn't worked out for my older, we still had a great time and made many great memories.
This is just coming from my own personal experience. Not saying it's the right way. But it was the way I did it and it worked out great. Hopefully my experience might help someone else. Sorry so long winded.
 
Juve 50 said:
I kind of went through the same with my older. She was never demoted but was also never quite noticed by the Top team in our club. She to was a player that has never stood out during Tryouts. But she is a gamer and I like to think she stands out in Matches. We stayed for 4 years with that lower tier team never really getting a shot with the top team. During our years with the lower tier team we monitored to make sure she was still playing at a high level with and against good competition. We also made sure she had the best privates, was developing skill and IQ. She would also work on her speed and agility during this time. I never sat by idly. I am one of those parents. I will always be one of "those" parents. I can tell you right now no one has her best interests in mind more than I do. So I managed. Made sure I always had a very good relationship with her coach. And when it was time to leave and have her play at a higher level, we did. After U12 we took her to a team she had guested with and felt comfortable with. With a coach who had approached me about her playing at a higher level. A team SHE picked. It happened to be a team that played at the top level. A team that had already had a lot of Success. But the parents on that team welcomed us with open arms. And the girls welcomed her. She had guested with this team so she was already familiar. But she was starting over.

Luckily everything worked out and playing for that team led to her being chosen to play for a pretty darn good team now. This has led to her committing to some of her dream schools and picking a school which I believe is a great fit for her. But I was by her side the whole way through. From talking to the Ulittle coaches to becoming friends with her future coach.

I have also been on the other side. I have another DD who played in Tier 2 on the Clubs 3rd team. She started off ok but I saw all the other players around her getting better and she wasn't. She is also an 06. She was a starter, and did her best to compete. But at the end of the day, I believe she wasn't demoted because of my relationship with the coach. So we will be exploring other sports and activities. This sport isn't for everyone. Yes, it's been extremely hard because my Ulittle had grown up playing soccer and watching big sis win national championships and so on. So it was expected that she would follow in her footsteps. And all the old coaches I have relationships with tell me to give it time. But I'm pretty realistic about my kids. My older is good but she also got lucky that she was in the right place at the right time.

So to break it down for you:
  • If you aren't happy take her to another club. Lots of great girls her in southern California who will welcome her with open arms.
  • Find a coach you feel comfortable with. An unapproachable coach at the younger ages (especially under 12) is not something I would deal with. Lots of good coaches out there and lots of good trainers that have personality and will talk to you like a human being. Besides, you are paying for a product. If you don't like the product, don't but it again.
  • Be involved. Don't go the whole year thinking everything is dandy only to be surprised at the end. I'm sure there were signs. If you had had an open line of communication with your coach you may have been able to soften the blow that comes with being cut. I saw the signs with my younger. She wasn't cut but when I would step in and coach if our coach had a conflict, my dd would be the first I would sub out as I saw she was hurting the team at times. But I saw the signs. We would have long talks on the way home with her. So when it came time to take her off the team, it was hard but not devastating as she had played with many of these girls for 3 years now. I was able to soften the blow.
  • Make sure she is happy and is truly learning to love the game. Teen Age years suck. Make sure she is so in love with the sport that you can actually use it as leverage later on when she is giving you a hard time haha. But there are so many other distractions later on that can derail her if she doesn't truly love the game.
  • Do your Homework. Before picking a club to move to, my dd must have guested with no joke 25 teams. But she made many friends along the way. Pretty much how I started Goats FC. But watch how the team plays, trains, interacts with each other. See if it's a good fit. It will help in your decision making.
  • Remember, soccer is very subjective. As others have stated, one coaches trash is another coaches treasure. I was true with my DD. She really didn't get any interest from the top team until she played against them at surf cup and send them packing. Played with a huge chip on her shoulder. Now if no coaches are interested, then maybe she may not be at the level you think she is.
  • Don't worry about tiers or levels of play. Our team signed a girl who no one knew, never played at a level higher than tier 2, and was ignored at other tryouts for teams we beat the tar out of. She turned into one of the best forwards in the league and is committed as a sophomore to one of the top schools in the country. Find a coach who will help make your dd a better player. A coach that will develop her skill and mind. Some one who will build her confidence and not tear her down.
  • Find a trainer. Look for the top girls in your club and ask their parents who they go to in the area. Training 2 days a week for and hour wont cut it. If she wants to be a top player.
  • And Finally (since I have been typing for an hour) Enjoy the process. We have made so many great memories and friends through this whole process. There are so many great people out there (with a few dicks of course) who all share something in common with you. Many of the people I stay in touch with were not even on the same team as us. Even if it hadn't worked out for my older, we still had a great time and made many great memories.
This is just coming from my own personal experience. Not saying it's the right way. But it was the way I did it and it worked out great. Hopefully my experience might help someone else. Sorry so long winded.
Click to expand...

Thanks for sharing your personal experience. Your advice is very helpful.
 
Juve 50 said:
I kind of went through the same with my older. She was never demoted but was also never quite noticed by the Top team in our club. She to was a player that has never stood out during Tryouts. But she is a gamer and I like to think she stands out in Matches. We stayed for 4 years with that lower tier team never really getting a shot with the top team. During our years with the lower tier team we monitored to make sure she was still playing at a high level with and against good competition. We also made sure she had the best privates, was developing skill and IQ. She would also work on her speed and agility during this time. I never sat by idly. I am one of those parents. I will always be one of "those" parents. I can tell you right now no one has her best interests in mind more than I do. So I managed. Made sure I always had a very good relationship with her coach. And when it was time to leave and have her play at a higher level, we did. After U12 we took her to a team she had guested with and felt comfortable with. With a coach who had approached me about her playing at a higher level. A team SHE picked. It happened to be a team that played at the top level. A team that had already had a lot of Success. But the parents on that team welcomed us with open arms. And the girls welcomed her. She had guested with this team so she was already familiar. But she was starting over.

Luckily everything worked out and playing for that team led to her being chosen to play for a pretty darn good team now. This has led to her committing to some of her dream schools and picking a school which I believe is a great fit for her. But I was by her side the whole way through. From talking to the Ulittle coaches to becoming friends with her future coach.

I have also been on the other side. I have another DD who played in Tier 2 on the Clubs 3rd team. She started off ok but I saw all the other players around her getting better and she wasn't. She is also an 06. She was a starter, and did her best to compete. But at the end of the day, I believe she wasn't demoted because of my relationship with the coach. So we will be exploring other sports and activities. This sport isn't for everyone. Yes, it's been extremely hard because my Ulittle had grown up playing soccer and watching big sis win national championships and so on. So it was expected that she would follow in her footsteps. And all the old coaches I have relationships with tell me to give it time. But I'm pretty realistic about my kids. My older is good but she also got lucky that she was in the right place at the right time.

So to break it down for you:
  • If you aren't happy take her to another club. Lots of great girls her in southern California who will welcome her with open arms.
  • Find a coach you feel comfortable with. An unapproachable coach at the younger ages (especially under 12) is not something I would deal with. Lots of good coaches out there and lots of good trainers that have personality and will talk to you like a human being. Besides, you are paying for a product. If you don't like the product, don't but it again.
  • Be involved. Don't go the whole year thinking everything is dandy only to be surprised at the end. I'm sure there were signs. If you had had an open line of communication with your coach you may have been able to soften the blow that comes with being cut. I saw the signs with my younger. She wasn't cut but when I would step in and coach if our coach had a conflict, my dd would be the first I would sub out as I saw she was hurting the team at times. But I saw the signs. We would have long talks on the way home with her. So when it came time to take her off the team, it was hard but not devastating as she had played with many of these girls for 3 years now. I was able to soften the blow.
  • Make sure she is happy and is truly learning to love the game. Teen Age years suck. Make sure she is so in love with the sport that you can actually use it as leverage later on when she is giving you a hard time haha. But there are so many other distractions later on that can derail her if she doesn't truly love the game.
  • Do your Homework. Before picking a club to move to, my dd must have guested with no joke 25 teams. But she made many friends along the way. Pretty much how I started Goats FC. But watch how the team plays, trains, interacts with each other. See if it's a good fit. It will help in your decision making.
  • Remember, soccer is very subjective. As others have stated, one coaches trash is another coaches treasure. I was true with my DD. She really didn't get any interest from the top team until she played against them at surf cup and send them packing. Played with a huge chip on her shoulder. Now if no coaches are interested, then maybe she may not be at the level you think she is.
  • Don't worry about tiers or levels of play. Our team signed a girl who no one knew, never played at a level higher than tier 2, and was ignored at other tryouts for teams we beat the tar out of. She turned into one of the best forwards in the league and is committed as a sophomore to one of the top schools in the country. Find a coach who will help make your dd a better player. A coach that will develop her skill and mind. Some one who will build her confidence and not tear her down.
  • Find a trainer. Look for the top girls in your club and ask their parents who they go to in the area. Training 2 days a week for and hour wont cut it. If she wants to be a top player.
  • And Finally (since I have been typing for an hour) Enjoy the process. We have made so many great memories and friends through this whole process. There are so many great people out there (with a few dicks of course) who all share something in common with you. Many of the people I stay in touch with were not even on the same team as us. Even if it hadn't worked out for my older, we still had a great time and made many great memories.
This is just coming from my own personal experience. Not saying it's the right way. But it was the way I did it and it worked out great. Hopefully my experience might help someone else. Sorry so long winded.
Click to expand...
This was lovely and inspiring! Thank you!
 
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