Player Demotion

S00CER1 said:
We are very honest about our DD and where her talent level is. Pros and cons. We had some privates and feedback, all taken with a grain of salt, had very positive things to say and areas to improve from a boys coach affiliated with the club. Realized something was going on late in the season whenever she made a mistake was taken out and other players got a much longer leash for "development purposes"
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Leave, any coach that thinks it is ok to take 10 year olds out when they make mistakes is a bad coach, any club that employs such a coach is a bad club.
 
She's going to be a 12u? Then staying is best ONLY if that club is your very best local option (though I wouldn't get hung up on a "club") AND the coach on the next team is terrific. Otherwise go find somewhere else. Too many clubs/teams/coaches to worry about impressing one she's already played for. Don't worry about Tier 1/Gold or Tier 2/Silver - just find the best coach and situation for your player that doesn't involve a long drive each way.
 
timbuck said:
It seems a bit premature to start placing middle of the pack kids on to a, b or c teams yet.
Here's how the conversation would go in a perfect world:
"Hey parent, I wanted to talk to about next year. Your daughter has been a very important part of our team. I'm still trying to determine which team she will be playing on through the summer tournament and fall season. I want to see her improve her skills and gain a lot of confidence. Currently she is one of our players that I'm on the fence with regard to the a or b team. She'll neee to show me x,y,z to get a lot of playing time on the A team. I believe that players get better by playing in games. So, she might be better off playing 80% of the game on the b team, than she would playing 30% (or maybe less) on the A team. I hope she'll stick with our club. How would you feel about her training with the b team for a few weeks? This is an age where some kids start to mature faster than others, so this could play a factor too."
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This would have made me feel much better or understood the decision but that conversation did not happen. When I called him up, I didn't necessarily disagree with his assessment but felt something was up given how suddenly things happened.
 
S00CER1 said:
This would have made me feel much better or understood the decision but that conversation did not happen. When I called him up, I didn't necessarily disagree with his assessment but felt something was up given how suddenly things happened.
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Ahhh ... He's probably been lining up new players to add post-State Cup for awhile now. Just hasn't told you (or they haven't told their teams) yet.
 
Kicknit22 said:
Come on Sped! Don't dismiss the inevitable politics that always come into play. Soccer1 doesn't sound boastful or as if they are looking through parental goggles. Sounds like they are getting a raw deal. Soccer1 should talk to Coach directly and get the answers, if they can.
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Yeah, I hear you and totally agree. But it's not often that a top/middle of the pack team member gets the boot just because other people politic better. In truth, until a certain age, you can probably take the bottom quarter of any team and replace it with the top quarter of the team below and not notice a difference. I agree 100% that the coach who had her last year should detail why the move down - anything less is chicken sh*t.
 
jrcaesar said:
Ahhh ... He's probably been lining up new players to add post-State Cup for awhile now. Just hasn't told you (or they haven't told their teams) yet.
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I think you nailed it on the head. Found out through the grapevine that's what happened. Wish it were more transparent.
 
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Don't despair! Take her to other club's try-outs. Lots of teams haven't even started try-outs yet; you have plenty of time. This will help her feel like she has choices and you and she can decide if another team is a better fit or if you want to stay with you club.
 
The mistake that parents make is that they think their kid is entitled to a spot on the team rather than going in with the mentality that their kid has to earn their spot every year.

Also, keep in mind that soccer player selection is a very subjective process. One coach's trash is another coach's gold.
 
This was our first year doing club as she had maximized what she was getting through AYSO and select and looking for more competition and training. We never felt entitled and don't think that a tryout really was a deciding factor. Her game doesn't translate well in a tryout as she plays very unselfishly and would rather make the right play than to look for her own shot or play. For us communication would have made us feel better about it rather getting an email from a random coach. Plan to check out other options but most of the local teams have already concluded tryouts and the late notice was a surprise and really limits our options due to how far we are willing to travel.
 
S00CER1 said:
This was our first year doing club as she had maximized what she was getting through AYSO and select and looking for more competition and training. We never felt entitled and don't think that a tryout really was a deciding factor. Her game doesn't translate well in a tryout as she plays very unselfishly and would rather make the right play than to look for her own shot or play. For us communication would have made us feel better about it rather getting an email from a random coach. Plan to check out other options but most of the local teams have already concluded tryouts and the late notice was a surprise and really limits our options due to how far we are willing to travel.
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That should translate perfectly to tryouts. It would take a really bad coach to only look for selfish players, the ball does most of the work n good teams.

One thing to remember; yes there are plenty of bad coaches out there, but most want the best players so they can win more games. They are generally the only unbiased assessors of talent (us parents, no matter how much we try, cannot see our daughters objectively) and also have more experience than the average parent. If your kid is not invited back to a team then 99% of the team it either means their attitude or ability are not up to snuff.

Re the lack of communication, that is really bad. The coach should send a detailed email to you about their decision as soon as possible, not leave you wondering or demote without explanation.
 
They may have already had tryouts, but rosters aren't really frozen until the end of summer. Kids change their minds. Parents jobs get transferred. Kids get hurt and clubs decide to add an extra roster spot.
Find a coach you like that is convenient (travel, cost, commitment) and reach out to them.
 
futboldad1 said:
If your kid is not invited back to a team then 99% of the team it either means their attitude or ability are not up to snuff.
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I disagree with this. Could be the case in some (not 99%) instances, but most it's that the coach simply is attracted to the unknown player he sees rather than developing a team and system that benefits the known players he has.
 
S00CER1 said:
Her game doesn't translate well in a tryout as she plays very unselfishly and would rather make the right play than to look for her own shot or play.
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Reach out directly to coaches, and have her participate in 1+ of their trainings. That's how this type of player finds the right place.
 
S00CER1 said:
This was our first year doing club as she had maximized what she was getting through AYSO and select and looking for more competition and training. We never felt entitled and don't think that a tryout really was a deciding factor. Her game doesn't translate well in a tryout as she plays very unselfishly and would rather make the right play than to look for her own shot or play. For us communication would have made us feel better about it rather getting an email from a random coach. Plan to check out other options but most of the local teams have already concluded tryouts and the late notice was a surprise and really limits our options due to how far we are willing to travel.
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You have gotten some good and bad advice so far. Here is what I have learned from your posts:
  • She was the 3rd or 4th best goal scorer on the team.
  • She is a 2006 (aka 10 year old).
  • She played AYSO last year.
  • The coach thinks she should play on the lower division team.
  • She has weaknesses (which you appreciate).
  • She had filled in for other positions when players were injured.
Ok. As yourself this: Do you trust that the coach/club/system is designed to promote development of the players? If yes, put your ego aside and let the kid play with whatever team the coach believes that she is best suited. If no, leave for a coach that you think is going to help develop your player to play ALL positions on the field (except for maybe goalkeeper).

My qualifications are: E-Licensed Coach with 10+ years coaching both rec and club. Grade 8 Referee. Parent of a 2003 GK who was on a Flight 3 2003 team and this year will be playing up on a Flight 2 2002 team. I've been around and look at this from multiple perspectives.

First, you are making a huge mistake if you think "goals" scored is a factor in anything. What the coach should be looking at is:
  • Does she have the speed and agility to compete at the higher level next year?
  • Ball skills: How is her first touch? Dribbling? Escape moves?
  • Passing: Does she connect her passes for her age?
  • Awareness: Does she know her position AND the positions of her teammates? Does she anticipate properly?
  • Defending: Can she defend? Delay? Use her body and feet appropriately?
  • ... and about 20 other items/categories.
Who cares if she scored goals? (except for the parents). This is the farthest thing from my mind for a 10 year old, its irrelevant because goal scoring really only should happen when the kids are in the right position. Give me 20 good shots at goal that are saved then 20 goals due to GK or defender mistakes. She is 10.

Your goal SHOULD be to put your kid in a program that is going to help her develop into a complete player. She may be a flight 2 forward but a Rec level defender. Send her to flight 3 so the coach has the luxury to move her around and develop her into a complete player ... you know ... the kind of player that College coaches look for.

You stated: "Her game doesn't translate well in a tryout as she plays very unselfishly and would rather make the right play than to look for her own shot or play." Are you kidding? This is precisely what competitive coaches are looking for. Those small sided games and drills they play at tryouts are all about watching the kids that have an excellent first touch, find their teammate, make the appropriate pass (to space or to the feet) based on the defense, and are unselfish. Coaches are looking for balls skills, tackling skills, speed, agility, and attitude of both the player (and the parent).

Finally, any club that automatically puts kids on a team because they were there last year is a "loser" club. Kids should be put on teams that will allow that player to develop and succeed. I have seen time-and-time again that kids are put on teams because they were there last year, only to see that kid fall farther behind because of a variety of factors (puberty hasn't kicked in or it did with a vengeance, weight (too little or too much), or just the short draw of the straw when it comes to height and speed.
 
timbuck said:
They may have already had tryouts, but rosters aren't really frozen until the end of summer. Kids change their minds. Parents jobs get transferred. Kids get hurt and clubs decide to add an extra roster spot.
Find a coach you like that is convenient (travel, cost, commitment) and reach out to them.
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Agree. Many coaches keep adding kids (and some kids end up leaving) all through spring and summer.
 
S00CER1 said:
This was our first year doing club as she had maximized what she was getting through AYSO and select and looking for more competition and training. We never felt entitled and don't think that a tryout really was a deciding factor. Her game doesn't translate well in a tryout as she plays very unselfishly and would rather make the right play than to look for her own shot or play. For us communication would have made us feel better about it rather getting an email from a random coach. Plan to check out other options but most of the local teams have already concluded tryouts and the late notice was a surprise and really limits our options due to how far we are willing to travel.
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My DD plays the same way and typically plays as a holding mid so her skills are more defensive in nature. This is our first season (after 3 with the same coach) that she has attended tryouts. We prepped her for both eventualities..... she went in knowing she may have to win a lot of 1v1s, but she also stayed true to her game in terms of sharing the ball and making plays for others. I feel like in showcasing both, she ended up showing well for the coaches that were looking for those skills.

And yes, some tryouts where the coach was clearly only looking for height and speed, she sensed that on her own and told us straight up, they don't play the way i like, let's not go back there. We said ok, great.
 
MWN said:
You have gotten some good and bad advice so far. Here is what I have learned from your posts:
  • She was the 3rd or 4th best goal scorer on the team.
  • She is a 2006 (aka 10 year old).
  • She played AYSO last year.
  • The coach thinks she should play on the lower division team.
  • She has weaknesses (which you appreciate).
  • She had filled in for other positions when players were injured.
Ok. As yourself this: Do you trust that the coach/club/system is designed to promote development of the players? If yes, put your ego aside and let the kid play with whatever team the coach believes that she is best suited. If no, leave for a coach that you think is going to help develop your player to play ALL positions on the field (except for maybe goalkeeper).

My qualifications are: E-Licensed Coach with 10+ years coaching both rec and club. Grade 8 Referee. Parent of a 2003 GK who was on a Flight 3 2003 team and this year will be playing up on a Flight 2 2002 team. I've been around and look at this from multiple perspectives.

First, you are making a huge mistake if you think "goals" scored is a factor in anything. What the coach should be looking at is:
  • Does she have the speed and agility to compete at the higher level next year?
  • Ball skills: How is her first touch? Dribbling? Escape moves?
  • Passing: Does she connect her passes for her age?
  • Awareness: Does she know her position AND the positions of her teammates? Does she anticipate properly?
  • Defending: Can she defend? Delay? Use her body and feet appropriately?
  • ... and about 20 other items/categories.
Who cares if she scored goals? (except for the parents). This is the farthest thing from my mind for a 10 year old, its irrelevant because goal scoring really only should happen when the kids are in the right position. Give me 20 good shots at goal that are saved then 20 goals due to GK or defender mistakes. She is 10.

Your goal SHOULD be to put your kid in a program that is going to help her develop into a complete player. She may be a flight 2 forward but a Rec level defender. Send her to flight 3 so the coach has the luxury to move her around and develop her into a complete player ... you know ... the kind of player that College coaches look for.

You stated: "Her game doesn't translate well in a tryout as she plays very unselfishly and would rather make the right play than to look for her own shot or play." Are you kidding? This is precisely what competitive coaches are looking for. Those small sided games and drills they play at tryouts are all about watching the kids that have an excellent first touch, find their teammate, make the appropriate pass (to space or to the feet) based on the defense, and are unselfish. Coaches are looking for balls skills, tackling skills, speed, agility, and attitude of both the player (and the parent).

Finally, any club that automatically puts kids on a team because they were there last year is a "loser" club. Kids should be put on teams that will allow that player to develop and succeed. I have seen time-and-time again that kids are put on teams because they were there last year, only to see that kid fall farther behind because of a variety of factors (puberty hasn't kicked in or it did with a vengeance, weight (too little or too much), or just the short draw of the straw when it comes to height and speed.
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Honestly I could care less about how many goals she scored, but the other parents let her and me know. She doesn't celebrate when she does score and cares more about if the team won or not. We probably failed her also by letting her play on club and rec with her friends. She missed some rec games due to club, but sometimes had games back to back (club and rec) and we had some issues with how she was used during her rec league games (never left the field and played mid the entire time despite letting the coach know about her other game and us wanting her to try other positions including goalie). We let it slide because she wanted to play with her friends, but I know it affected her some games as she did not have the same energy level and would defer.
I am honest about her weaknesses and could probably list more negatives than positives mainly because of things I want her to work on, but don't want to "that parent" like the movie Trophy Kids (highly recommend seeing it). I could go into more detail as I found out some other information, but don't want to disparage anyone. I think the coach is good, but now realize that some other factors were in play and failed at communication which ultimately will cause us to go elsewhere.
 
MWN said:
You have gotten some good and bad advice so far. Here is what I have learned from your posts:
  • She was the 3rd or 4th best goal scorer on the team.
  • She is a 2006 (aka 10 year old).
  • She played AYSO last year.
  • The coach thinks she should play on the lower division team.
  • She has weaknesses (which you appreciate).
  • She had filled in for other positions when players were injured.
Ok. As yourself this: Do you trust that the coach/club/system is designed to promote development of the players? If yes, put your ego aside and let the kid play with whatever team the coach believes that she is best suited. If no, leave for a coach that you think is going to help develop your player to play ALL positions on the field (except for maybe goalkeeper).

My qualifications are: E-Licensed Coach with 10+ years coaching both rec and club. Grade 8 Referee. Parent of a 2003 GK who was on a Flight 3 2003 team and this year will be playing up on a Flight 2 2002 team. I've been around and look at this from multiple perspectives.

First, you are making a huge mistake if you think "goals" scored is a factor in anything. What the coach should be looking at is:
  • Does she have the speed and agility to compete at the higher level next year?
  • Ball skills: How is her first touch? Dribbling? Escape moves?
  • Passing: Does she connect her passes for her age?
  • Awareness: Does she know her position AND the positions of her teammates? Does she anticipate properly?
  • Defending: Can she defend? Delay? Use her body and feet appropriately?
  • ... and about 20 other items/categories.
Who cares if she scored goals? (except for the parents). This is the farthest thing from my mind for a 10 year old, its irrelevant because goal scoring really only should happen when the kids are in the right position. Give me 20 good shots at goal that are saved then 20 goals due to GK or defender mistakes. She is 10.

Your goal SHOULD be to put your kid in a program that is going to help her develop into a complete player. She may be a flight 2 forward but a Rec level defender. Send her to flight 3 so the coach has the luxury to move her around and develop her into a complete player ... you know ... the kind of player that College coaches look for.

You stated: "Her game doesn't translate well in a tryout as she plays very unselfishly and would rather make the right play than to look for her own shot or play." Are you kidding? This is precisely what competitive coaches are looking for. Those small sided games and drills they play at tryouts are all about watching the kids that have an excellent first touch, find their teammate, make the appropriate pass (to space or to the feet) based on the defense, and are unselfish. Coaches are looking for balls skills, tackling skills, speed, agility, and attitude of both the player (and the parent).

Finally, any club that automatically puts kids on a team because they were there last year is a "loser" club. Kids should be put on teams that will allow that player to develop and succeed. I have seen time-and-time again that kids are put on teams because they were there last year, only to see that kid fall farther behind because of a variety of factors (puberty hasn't kicked in or it did with a vengeance, weight (too little or too much), or just the short draw of the straw when it comes to height and speed.
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That's a lot of opinions for someone with an E license.

Reminds me of anther pretty good rule, stay away from daddy coaches.
 
"A, B, C" or whatever team isn't a good reason to leave. It comes down to the question of, is your child in a positive enviorment with a good coach and or program and are they consistently improving as a player? If the answer is yes than No reason to Move at all. If there's any questions besides those that factor in than I suggest reviewing your priorities. Quality or level of the team is so mildly related to what priorities as a parent should be. Way too many parents are caught up in the status of what level their kids team is. Or what the social scene on the sidelines is. I know 10 year old kids that are at their 4th or 5th different club. Imagine changing your kids school like that and expecting them to learn and perform with any consistency, let alone a high level. It's crazy what's going on with how many kids and coaches bounce around these days. Everyone wants to toss around word like development but no one want to go down the road it takes to get there.
Plain and simple ! THERE CAN BE NO DEVELOPMENT WITHOUT CONSISTENCY. (Period)
 
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